Sister is Vegan and Tested Very Low For Iron

[integral]

Very Low Iron Vegan, what is the protocol for this? She wants to go buy a supplement if so what is the correct form for absorption? I tired a iron supplement a few years ago and it made me very sick so im of course skeptical, is there any other way to solve this with out eating meat? 

Edited May 27, 2023 by integral

[Schizophonia]

Stop having an ideological and unnatural diet.

[undeather]

3 hours ago, integral said:

Very Low Iron Vegan, what is the protocol for this? She wants to go buy a supplement if so what is the correct form for absorption? I tired a iron supplement a few years ago and it made me very sick so im of course skeptical, is there any other way to solve this with out eating meat? 

How low is very low?
What's her hemoglobin, MCV, Ferritin, TIBC, Transferrin, Transferirin saturation
Is she bleeding a lot (period)?

All are important to tell about the severity and cause of the problem.
A lot of younger women experience low iron issues, independent of their diet.

[Schizophonia]

15 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Foods like chickpeas, tofu, spinach, legume, kale, beans, quinoa, pistachios, chasews, walnuts, almonds... and it goes.

She may check her tea and coffee consumption because it's interrupts iron absorption in the body. The phytate acid in unsoaked lentils and nuts also interrupts iron absorption.

I assume she already knows that as a vegan because it's pretty basic for people who take vegan diet seriously. However, it's easy to forget that women need to consume more iron due to having monthly periods.

Or she could eat a nice big sirloin steak and literally reverse her anemia in less than two hours flat.

Edited May 27, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

2 minutes ago, undeather said:

How low is very low?
What's her hemoglobin, MCV, Ferritin, TIBC, Transferrin, Transferirin saturation
Is she bleeding a lot (period)?

All are important to tell about the severity and cause of the problem.
A lot of younger women experience low iron issues, independent of their diet.

I am an adult man and my blood tests a few months ago showed that I was almost anemic.
Many men are iron deficient unless they are particularly sedentary and/or have bad habits that lower iron metabolism, such as regular alcohol consumption.
I am an omnivore with a history of low consumption of animal products including trying veganism for a few weeks.

[Leo Gura]

Women need to supplement iron. This isn't necessarily a diet issue. Easy fix.

[Schizophonia]

6 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Yes, but from your flesh, not from the cow's, since you are the one who brought up this "cool" idea.

That's not how the world works.
Universal justice does not exist and is a fallacious projection of pragmatic human societal constructs. It's basically just survival, the law of nature, opportunism, and the fact is you're a predator, a predator numbed by comfort and doxa, but a predator nonetheless.
The price to pay for defying nature (God) to reassure the ego will be at best a taste disappointment (who wants to eat several cans of legumes every day lol), at worst health problems (deficiency or lack of iron, in b12, in zinc, in Vitamin A, in protein, in Omega 3 EPA/DHA etc, intestinal disbiosis, loss of cognitive capacities due to endotoxins...)

[Schizophonia]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Women need to supplement iron. This isn't necessarily a diet issue. Easy fix.

https://theswaddle.com/iron-supplements-not-enough-to-address-anemia-if-diet-remains-poor-study-shows/

[Something Funny]

2 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Stop having an ideological and unnatural diet.

Says a guy who bombs every thread he doesn't agree with to push his own ideology, lol.

3 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

That's not how the world works.
Universal justice does not exist and is a fallacious projection of pragmatic human societal constructs. It's basically just survival, the law of nature, opportunism, and the fact is you're a predator, a predator numbed by comfort and doxa, but a predator nonetheless.
The price to pay for defying nature (God) to reassure the ego will be at best a taste disappointment (who wants to eat several cans of legumes every day lol), at worst health problems (deficiency or lack of iron, in b12, in zinc, in Vitamin A, in protein, in Omega 3 EPA/DHA etc, intestinal disbiosis, loss of cognitive capacities due to endotoxins...)

No ideology here 

4 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

loss of cognitive capacities due to endotoxins...)

You are safe from that one, don't worry.

[Something Funny]

@integral why be skeptikal and worry if you can simply take a supplement for a month then take another test to know for sure if it worked or not?

Alternatively, why not go to an actual dietician and make adjustments to your diet + take supplements that they recommend? 

As opposed to getting advise on a forum where "bruh, just eat a bloody stake and reverse you anemia in 2 hours" is considered a normal and intelligent response...

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

Says a guy who bombs every thread he doesn't agree with to push his own ideology, lol.

I eat whatever I want as long as it doesn't bother me noticeably and my senses like it, I'm not dogmatic.
The fact of functioning according to this schema could be considered as ideological, but in fact I do not limit myself fundamentally to this one, I really do whatever I want as long as I realize that a certain way of functioning is wrong. advantage in my interest than the previous one, if I realize that it is "veganism" then it will be "veganism" lmao.

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No ideology here 

I'll just answer that it's my right to push what you consider to be an ideology.
What I can't do however is not to respect the rules of the forum or the laws of my country, such as inciting hatred, suicide, insulting and posting illegal things in general.

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You are safe from that one, don't worry.

Indeed, my current diet allows me a fluidity such that I can respond, even after insomnia, to relatively complex subjects
Even when my interlocutor is a passive-aggressive SJW without arguments

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

@integral why be skeptikal and worry if you can simply take a supplement for a month then take another test to know for sure if it worked or not?

Alternatively, why not go to an actual dietician and make adjustments to your diet + take supplements that they recommend? 

As opposed to getting advise on a forum where "bruh, just eat a bloody stake and reverse you anemia in 2 hours" is considered a normal and intelligent response...

It's intelligent, a thing is by definition intelligent if it is rational and effective in solving a problem, even if it seems particularly simple.
It is not because something is simple that it is wrong, it is not because a solution is complex and whose understanding is opaque for ordinary mortals that it is intelligent.
In fact it is very often the opposite and this is precisely why the understanding of a system in the hard sciences always passes through an argumentative/deductive escalation, where the constitution of the macrocosm is based on the arrangement of condiderable constituents such as axioms by scientific methodology (admittedly arbitrary).

All that to say jerking off to dr greger videos, taking your iron supplement every morning and hesitating between normal and methylated version of B12 doesn't make you any smarter than a scientologist jerking off to cosmology invented by L Ron Hubart. 

I presented a simple, effective, and cheap solution to help her cheap, and which does not involve a vegan diet with certain problems that I have implied.
You would have tried to dismantle the opposite, but you preferred to play Scientologist, too bad.

[Schizophonia]

19 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Yes, but you're speaking as if you are trapped in a narrow minded purple/red perspective that only acknowledges the necessity of meat for survival.

 

This argument also reminds me of the libertarian point of view, where individual freedom is emphasized without considering the consequences on mortality.

Justice and morality may be human constructs, but that does not diminish their value and it doesn't imply that they are not aligned with God's plan. Everything that exists, including our beliefs and social constructions, is part of God's plan because we, as humans, are manifestations of God, even though most of us are unaware of our role as creators or deities.

You overlook the fact that many of us remain relatively safe and alive due to our belief in concepts like justice and morality. Without these principles, society would be much more challenging to survive in.

Numerous individuals suffer from various mental and physical conditions that would make survival much more difficult without society's emphasis on morality and justice.

As humans, we have the capacity to consciously create a better life for ourselves and all living beings on this planet. Transitioning to a plant based diet and eliminating the meat industry can be seen as a natural progression aligned with God's plan.

Would you, as the creator of this universe, consciously choose to torture and kill millions of animals for the sake of your egoic pleasure? No. As a conscious creator who understands that everyone and everything around you is essentially a part of yourself, you would strive to keep everyone safe, promote their well being and happiness as much as possible.

The fact that your perception of veganism is limited to consuming cans of legumes demonstrates a lack of understanding about plant based diets and their nutritional diversity.

I can assure you that I do not have any vitamin deficiencies, but you seem to dismiss this because you hold an ingrained belief that a plant based diet inevitably leads to such deficiencies.

Thank you for your answer and your point.

Can you answer just these two questions:
1) What will you gain by going vegan from an idealistic point of view, do you have a concrete fear like karma, hell, or a similar belief?                    Otherwise why not eat this meat if you wanted to? That's what all the animals on this planet do.
The human is also an animal, you will say that we have the choice but the other animals too, we just have the cognitive capacities sufficient to lose ourselves in excessively abstract concepts especially when we are in an extraordinarily sociable situation like today .
This does not mean that humans MUST use this ability to be systematically rambling on the behavior of other animals and our primary instincts, it is a resonance destined to inflate the ego. It's just a neutral ability and an ability that can backfire on you, humans can not only go vegan, they can go orthorexic, conspiratorial (paranoia), religious...

 

2) How can you claim to be able to go against God's will?                                                                                                                                                                      You said "Would you, as the creator of this universe, consciously choose to torture and kill millions of animals for the sake of your egoic pleasure?" but it is the reality of God! It is not only real but pervasive on this very planet right now.
Nature is full of suffering, it is also what God is and it responds to a necessary or in any case non-contingent balance in the current state of things.      You are not God, you don't fundamentally know the how and why of the universe, and the fact is that you and a number of people want to persuade themselves of unobservable things.
All that's going to happen if you go vegan is that you're literally going to die unless you take supplements, and that's always going to be more unpleasant than an omnivorous diet.
Incidentally, if you too are a rationalist and have a somewhat Spinozist vision of God, or simply that you share the more or less commonly accepted vision of God here and in perched circles in general, then you will admit that life unfolds in a rational, determined, and that life is strangely similar to a movie from which you cannot leave but which you rationalize by illusory concepts taking into account the limitations of your own infinitely limited and dual condition (free will, choice...)
How can you go against a movie?

[Something Funny]

48 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

It's intelligent, a thing is by definition intelligent if it is rational and effective in solving a problem, even if it seems particularly simple.
It is not because something is simple that it is wrong, it is not because a solution is complex and whose understanding is opaque for ordinary mortals that it is intelligent.
In fact it is very often the opposite and this is precisely why the understanding of a system in the hard sciences always passes through an argumentative/deductive escalation, where the constitution of the macrocosm is based on the arrangement of condiderable constituents such as axioms by scientific methodology (admittedly arbitrary).

All that to say jerking off to dr greger videos, taking your iron supplement every morning and hesitating between normal and methylated version of B12 doesn't make you any smarter than a scientologist jerking off to cosmology invented by L Ron Hubart. 

I presented a simple, effective, and cheap solution to help her cheap, and which does not involve a vegan diet with certain problems that I have implied.
You would have tried to dismantle the opposite, but you preferred to play Scientologist, too bad.

You advised this "solution" to a guy who clearly stated that his sister is vegan and asked how they can deal with low iron deficiency without eating meat. You are unable to emphasize with a person's issue, get into their shoes, and suggest a solution that will actually work for them. Instead you just keep blindly pushing your agenda without being asked for it, and then you claim that you are not ideological, lol.

That's what makes your advise unintelligent, it is out of place and not useful, it is not about whether it's technically effective or not.

It's like me coming to a gun owner's forum, finding a thread asking about how to store your guns safely in a house with children, and then saying:  "just stop being a gun nerd and throw them all away" while unironically thinking that I've said something smart.

Just like I don't bomb people's threads asking questions about the carnivore diet on here with "stop eating meat" advise, you shouldn't do this with threads asking for advise about vegan diet, it's that simple.

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Something Funny

[Schizophonia]

3 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

You advised this "solution" to a guy who clearly stated that his sister is vegan and asked how they can deal with low iron deficiency without eating meat. You are unable to emphasize with a person's issue, get into their shoes, and suggest a solution that will actually work for them. Instead you just keep blindly pushing your agenda without being asked for it, and then you claim that you are not ideological, lol.

That's what makes your advise unintelligent, it is out of place and not useful, it is not about whether it's technically effective or not.

It's like me coming to a gun owner's forum, finding a thread asking about how to store your guns safely in a house with children, and then saying:  "just stop being a gun nerd and throw them all away" while unironically thinking that I've said something smart.

Just like I don't bomb people's threads asking questions about the carnivore diet on here with "stop eating meat" advise, you shouldn't do this with threads asking for advise about vegan diet, it's that simple.

 

I admit that I find it difficult to stop at the boundaries set by others when interacting with them, I haven't really gone down the rabbit hole yet but it's a bit of a loop that I often feel, you are right.

I also recognize that I regularly push an agenda, you are also right on that.

[Something Funny]

@Schizophonia the same with me saying that you are ideological. I've never claimed that that you are ideological because you eat meat yourself. My point is that you are clearly ideological about this topic because you feel the need to shit on vegan diet at every opportunity that you get.

Why are you guys so bothered by other people eating differently from you? Why do you feel this urge to create threads criticizing veganism or visit threads about optimising a vegan diet and post your stuff there?

How come me or Lila (supposedly ideological SJWs) are able to refrain ourselves from doing that and you are not?

Edited May 27, 2023 by Something Funny

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

@Schizophonia the same with me saying that you are ideological. I've never claimed that that you are ideological because you eat meat yourself. My point is that you are clearly ideological about this topic because you feel the need to shit on vegan diet at every opportunity that you get.

Why are you guys so bothered by other people eating differently from you? Why do you feel this urge to create threads criticizing veganism or visit threads about optimising a vegan diet and post your stuff there?

How come me or Lila (supposedly ideological SJWs) are able to refrain ourselves from doing that and you are not?

You do not understand.
I am not the hysterical partisan of any ideology, I do not come to this kind of topic as a proselyte, to convert heretics to my point of view.
I tolerate any ideology or simply way of seeing the world, I have never blocked, ghosted or bashed anyone, it has no interest.

My only goal is to play, I have a real irresponsible pleasure for the argumentative conflict and the transgression towards an ever purer truth, devoid of parasitic and irrational consideration.
One of my earliest childhood memories was of a day in kindergarten, we were outside in a row and holding hands when an adult warned us that the tar in one place was "fresh" and that it was not necessary to go there, the first thing that I did was to rush inside to see what it does, lol.
I can honestly seem belligerent judging my character (especially after insomnia, lol) on certain topics but, believe it or not, it's not about hostility. In fact, I would love for someone to come at me argumentatively, destroy their schemas at length and breadth, I have no problem with that.                               

In fact, I would love for someone to come at me argumentatively, until the moment when I know I'm wrong because I have nothing more tangible to bring in contradiction, and then I would have no problem lean in and absorb new knowledge, no matter how provocative and playful I may have been beforehand.

Well, I think you can blame me for having a tendency to selfishly try to suck others into my schemes, but it's not just about intolerance. Just the way I "treat" myself.
If you know what I mean.

Edited May 27, 2023 by Schizophonia

[integral]

5 hours ago, undeather said:

How low is very low?
What's her hemoglobin, MCV, Ferritin, TIBC, Transferrin, Transferirin saturation
Is she bleeding a lot (period)?

All are important to tell about the severity and cause of the problem.
A lot of younger women experience low iron issues, independent of their diet.

Does this cover everything, what tests do you recommend? 

Edited May 27, 2023 by integral

[Schizophonia]

30 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Intresting questions. Here are my answers.

From a meat eater's perspective, there's no personal benefit from being vegan. It's a loss. 

From many vegans perspective it's not a question of whether it's a gain or loss. This issue is beyond selfish desires and ego.

If you make the decision to adopt any way of life, it is because you believe, even unconsciously, that there is ultimately a gain somewhere. There is something to be gained/good from going there.
Otherwise, it looks like a mind game.  If you make the decision to adopt any way of life, it is because you believe, even unconsciously, that there is ultimately a gain somewhere. There is something to be gained/good from going there.
When someone starts to become quite opaque it's because I think they haven't dug enough, with honesty and humor, into their real intentions. 

30 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

When I look at animals and put myself in their position, several points become evident to me:

1. It's hypocritical to treat someone in a way that I would not want to be treated by others.

Hypocrite is an abstract concept that you use to designate a phenomenon, in this case "treat someone in a way that I would not want to be treated by others", but it's a dead end, it doesn't predict an annoyance or even any concrete consequence that the triggering of this phenomenon would have on my interests.

To put it more simply, yes I kill animals for the pleasure of eating them and, at the same time, I don't want to be killed. What is the problem/contradiction?

It's not like deciding in your mind that animals "shouldn't" be killed is going to fundamentally change the rules of the universe and nature.

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2. I have no right to subject them to harm or mistreatment, as they have never caused any harm to me.

Law refers to a human construction, a set of explicit laws injunctions to the members of a community a way to behave.
You also insist on the "no right" and imply de facto that there is somewhere a universal law condemning the consumption of animal products.
All I saw when I looked up, day or night, was clouds and stars, I've never seen anywhere written "NO KILLING ANIMALS FORBIDDEN".
Incidentally, the majority of human and non-human animals that I have encountered did not seem to really follow the laws that you preach ah ah.
Finally, all the value of the law is based on the existence of a Justice having the means to enforce the said law under penalty of sanctions, but you have specified above that you do not believe in punishments.

So in summary, you are appealing to a law that cannot be found concretely anywhere, that no one seems to apply and for which you do not recognize any sanction.

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3. Through empathy and compassion, I can genuinely feel their pain as if it were my own. These capacities, which I believe were created by a higher power, enable me to connect with their suffering.

You're right, but that's no longer idealistic.
Mirror neurons are biological things, your history and upbringing (memories) are also concrete things.
Your inability to kill an animal is therefore not a question of virtue but of "ability".

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This discussion delves into the field of the philosophy of morality. I firmly believe that the suffering animals endure isn't justified by our desire for meat consumption. Just because the little monkey human desires something doesn't mean it's the right course of action. For example, the little monkey might desire to harm or rape an entire village, but that's clearly not what should be done.

Ditto, to whom do you have to justify yourself? Who decides who "must" do? What penalties? Where is all this written? 

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As humans, particularly in a society of abundance and technology we possess the choice and the power to transcend our desires and live in a more compassionate manner. While it is true that some animals naturally consume meat, it does not necessitate that we must do the same.

same, why would it be a requirement?

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My goal is not to demonize meat consumption and portray everyone who eat meat as evil.

Happy again, because you too have certainly eaten meat for a whole part of your life.
You are also certainly causing a lot of "harm" without even knowing it.

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I simply want people to be more aware to the choice they have, to the impact their actions have on their surroundings. The meat industry invests capital to hide the dark true of how meat, milk and eggs are "created". It's disturbing that someone is paying money in order to make you less aware to the impact that your choices make as an individual. I wish they were more transparent, why they aren't transparent? Why they draw happy cows and chickens on the packages of these "products"? 

Again, what does it matter if there is no punishment in the end. 
Moreover, it is up to you not to buy battery meat, just as it is up to you not to produce "evil" in other ways, for example by buying manufactured products made largely thanks to human exploitation.

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Yes, however, the more conscious God is, the less suffering would exist. Suffering arises from selfishness, from God's lack of consciousness, from our lack of consciousness, because we are God. God is not fully conscious. If God were more conscious, every person would embody the qualities of enlightened beings like Buddha or Jesus, even better.

I'm not sure with our current state of consciousness we can understand "God" and his will, even with all the DMT in the world haha.
I believe that more awareness helps less suffering above all for ourselves, precisely through a greater understanding of our own interests.

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Hypothetically, if God were fully conscious, the meat industry would cease to exist, and a more compassionate and loving world would be created not just for a particular group or humans alone, but for all beings.

ditto

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It's not merely a stage green cliche or fantasy but a real potential of this world as the general level of consciousness develops.

at least a little ah ah 

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Yeah but here it's your paranoia as a meat eater speaking, this fear is not rational because it's a matter of fact that people can survive, thrive, be healthy and live a long life with 100% plant-based diet. 

It has not been my experience

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Because I'm the creator of this movie and I think this movie can be better.

 

[undeather]

5 minutes ago, integral said:

Does this cover everything, what tests do you recommend? 

That's good enough for a screeing test.
It's a non-anaemic iron deficiency, which means that that blood markers are still upheld despite really low ferritin.

Either go for iron supplementation asap - like ferrous salts or whatever is readily available in your country.
Best combine it with Vitamin C to increase absorption.

Or If you dont want to go for the supplement route:
Fastest absorbed Iron is heme-iron from animal meats.
If she wants to stay vegan, go for high iron plant foods (dark leafy greens, beans, peas, lentils...) and make them part of her daily intake.
Also, avoid coffee,tee or wine after or before meals.

It usually takes at least 1-3 months to see improved blood levels. 
Especially if you go for the non-supplement path, dont expect rapid changes.

However, it's very important to follow up with a new blood-work to control for success.

 

[integral]

@undeather Thanks for the help! Will take another blood test in 1-3 months. ?