Nothingness is not = Good (nirodha samapatti)

[Water by the River]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

I heard a good argument once on this topic why total cessation has extra importance. It's because suppose there was water mixed with milk, if one wanted to experience what water tastes like, he first would need to evaporate all the milk out of it. Then that one has truly tasted the absolute without any milk in it. Until one experiences a clear dip in total cessation he doesn't know what water tastes likes, he knows a mixture of water and milk only. I thought it's a good thought provoking argument.

True. In the opinion of yours truly, that [bold markings in your post by yours truly] is especially the danger with psychedelic only/mainly paths.

To say it in the words of Ken Wilber: To fully cross over to Final Enlightenment/fully waking up, ones Identity must by NOTHING/Nothingness. Fully empty. Fully Impersonal Consciousness. The "Abyss". Separate self fully seen in all subtle elements (I-feeling, I-thouhgts, and very subtle lenses of pereception)/transcended/cut off.

 We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all. Kalu Rinpoche

And that can either be had

• with working with cessations (or the "more" concentrative path. "During" Cessations where the separate self is not existent, by definition), and seeing the separate self reassemble when getting out of that state, and the then resulting ripening and transcending of the remaining separate self.
• Or by doing something like the dissolving/transcending of the separate self directly with for example Mahamudra/Dzogchen, which knows cessations, but doesn't give them Ultimate meaning or even preference compared to staying in the Nondual (Simultaneous Mind) States/Awakenings (during daily life when the world appears in the visual field), letting the separate self slowly dissolve, until the Big Bang of Crossing Over or Waking Up:

Resulting in the Final Nondual Enlightenment as described by Kalu above, or by Daniel Brown Pointing out the Great Way, Basis Enlightenment: 

The paths up the mountain are a bit different, and the interpretation of coming down the mountain also has different "coulorings". But the deep structure of the path, and the outcome, is of the same essence.

Interesting thing is: Daniel Ingram, Frank Yang and Ken Wilber changed all in the later stages of their practice either to or to include elements of Mahamudra/Dzogchen into their previous practice (Theravada for the first two gentlemen, Zen for Wilber. Both are mainly concentrative meditation heavy paths). Which in the opinion of yours truly is a very interesting fact.

Selling Water by the River

PS: When having read the letter, throw it in the fire (Bassui)

Edited May 25, 2023 by Water by the River

[Salvijus]

@Water by the River 

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

Mahamudra/Dzogchen, which knows cessations, but doesn't give them Ultimate meaning

It should have a special meaning tho as far as i understand. Because achieving nirodha samapatti is an indication that one's awareness has trancendenced all mind. 

Being able to sense nothingness among all things like in Dzogchen is not necessarily an indicator that he achieved total trancendence yet. But by keeping his attention on the emptiness during all activities and refining his discernment further he is bound to achieve total trancendence, nirodha samapatti some day.

So nirodha should have a special meaning here. It indicates the level of growth and trancendence one has attained imo. And i also think one who attains to nirodha is automatically able to see nothingness in all things like Dzogchen. But i could be wrong idk.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Salvijus