Nothingness is not = Good (nirodha samapatti)

[RedLine]

When all the the ego attachments (five aggregates) are deconstructed, what is left is not infinite and unconditional bliss and goodness but Nothing, no experience, oblivion.

I challenge you to convice me that the God/Atman/Infinite love, etc as essence of reality makes any sense. This experience is also an ego attachment, still craving, and therefore can be deconsctructed too. 

 

 

[Yimpa]

Lol.

[RedLine]

11 minutes ago, Benton said:

The only thing that exists is awake. 
Does reality have a structure? Yes you can deconstruct this but what constructed it? 
I would suggest you are sentience itself. 
Where does an ego to deconstruct come from if the only thing is nothingness? Which yes everything is nothing. But this is awake.
You are it. 
 

Stop this sophistry. It is annyoing.

Speak clear. not spiritual poetry you repeat from the forum.

What is your experience of reality?, What is the experience of reality of most hardcore meditators? how they conlfict each other? etc. I can also repeat all that non-dual/awareness stuff  and be the same guy experiencing reality from my ego, just ideas

Describe clearly your direct experience of reality and comment if you think it has metaphisical an ontological implications, in case you are a yogui and not somebody who just play with spiritual ideas 

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by RedLine

[Yimpa]

You are making everything up. It’s all imaginary. Your whole life is a fiction.

[RedLine]

6 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

You are making everything up. It’s all imaginary. Your whole life is a fiction.

Oh yeah, all is imaginary, oops but the idea of "all this imaginary" is imanginary too, ooooo but the idea of " the idea of "all this imaginary"" is also imaginary.

Mental loop. Mental masturbation.

Edited May 23, 2023 by RedLine

[RedLine]

2 minutes ago, Benton said:

@RedLine Was you question from your direct experience? 
I speak from mine.

I don´t think direct experience is something. What is indirect experience then?

It is either some metaphor to give instruction to a meditaiton practice or in the worst case a word to sell you some spiritual idea/ideology 

[Yimpa]

5 minutes ago, RedLine said:

Oh yeah, all is imaginary, oops but the idea of "all this imaginary" is imanginary too, ooooo but the idea of " the idea of "all this imaginary"" is also imaginary.

Mental masturbation.

[RedLine]

12 minutes ago, Benton said:

@RedLine What is consciousness?

1. By intelectual knowlege: is craving, on of the five aggregates that can be deconstructed

2. By my direct experience: never experience anything that can relate to that word in a strong way, neither I find that word has importance in my experience. Maybe is a good label to describe the experience of mental silence, non-control just watching I experience sometimes. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by RedLine

[RedLine]

25 minutes ago, Benton said:

@RedLine Was you question from your direct experience? 
I speak from mine.

I spoke from the assumption you realized nothingness. If you haven’t, basically all you’ll get is mental masturbation. 

The  nirodha samapatti meditator I mention can "realize" nothingness. An not trough a dmt but any moment he wants. Your nothingness looks more mental tripy and his experience looks more grounded. I trust buddhist over psychonauts

[Leo Gura]

God has nothing to do with attachment or craving. This is just Buddhist dogma.

The truth is that God is imagining attachment and craving as figments of its consciousness. God is also imagining Nirodha Samapatti, and every other Buddhist thing. Buddhism is a dream. God is not.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Water by the River]

9 hours ago, RedLine said:

When all the the ego attachments (five aggregates) are deconstructed, what is left is not infinite and unconditional bliss and goodness but Nothing, no experience, oblivion.

I challenge you to convice me that the God/Atman/Infinite love, etc as essence of reality makes any sense. This experience is also an ego attachment, still craving, and therefore can be deconsctructed too. 

 

 

Some musings on Nothing/Causal-States of Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha, their benefits, vs. Nondual Realization/Enlightenment in daily life:

A state of Nothing (Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha,...) is not the Absolute, it is a state happening in Nothingness/ Absolute/ Infinite/ Reality. Absolute Reality by definition is always there, never not there, can't go anywhere else (since IT is infinite).

Nondual Realization/Enlightenment: And if one can keep ones True Identity as Nothingness BEING the essence of Everything (the visual field, and the Infinite Nothingness in which it "floats") going in daily life (as , and see "IT" as the Essence/Nothingness/Suchness of every arising of the Visual Field/Infinite Consciousness), then you will have the  infinite and unconditional bliss/love flowing. That comes with the package. Or what would in the end finally switch off the separate self and its grasping for blissful-experiences finally, it not bliss without condition/cause?  "We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all". Kalu Rinpoche

• Historically, Buddhism tended to first master (Hinayana, today the surviving Theravada-forms) the Concentrative-Meditation Nothing-states (Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha, Nirvana), until later guys like Nagarjuna reached and described the ongoing nondual Realization of Nothingness as the ESSENCE not only of (Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha, Nirvana), but of the world/visual field/any manifestation. Madhyamaka came out of that, and the Nondual revolution of Mahayana.
• It is easier to get these Nothing-states via Hardcore-Concentrative-Meditation than ongoing Nondual Realization in daily life. Because for that, all separate self arisings must be transcended WHILE they arise in daily. For (Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha, Nirvana) it is enough to switch them off via concentrative meditation on the pillow. So a more brute-force-concentrative approach.
  • Many Theravada-Paths aim for Cessation. The material from Ingram and Frank Yang clearly describe that when the "cycling" through states of Cessation starts, that this is useful to understand the separate self when it reassembles going out of Cessation. But both later added some techniques similiar to Mahamudra/Dzogchen because that makes it much more efficient.
    • Both state that cessation and its path is optional, not necessary. There are cases who don't go through cessations. But these tend to take Awareness into the Sleep-State (lucid dream, or not fully blanking out when passing deep sleep. See Roger Thisdells descriptions of that for example).
  • Mahamudra/Dzogchen directly aims for Nondual Realization in daily life, but also use concentration states on the pillow. But not exclusively, and more as a starting point.
    • They have excellent techniques to make the everpresent Nothingness/Infinite Consciousness in daily life perceivable and "hold-able", and to transcend the separate-self-clouds blocking the realization that Nothingness/Reality always already is right here, right now.

Buuut the big advantage of Nothing (Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha,...) : You see what can be gone (all and everything) and the Absolute/Infinite is still "there", as in Reality/Absolute Reality never can not be there.

• So one doesn't tend to confuse the Nothingness/Reality/Infinite Potential with any kind of specific form, or perceiver/subject/separate self.
• IT makes sure that after a lot of experiences of going in and especially coming out of that state of Cessation/Nothing (and the subject/separate self/indviduality, together with the world, reassembles itself), is that one doesn't confuse Ones True Essence (Nothingness) with any form, howerever subtle or formless.
  • Yes, and there are also formless states that are still form or manifestation (not the Nothing/Cessation, since they change AND have some subtle form. Something like a formless object like i, the square root of minus 1. Ever seen it? Ever can imagine it? Yes, as formless concept. Or in Wilbers System, low subtle/high subtle and low causal.
    • High Causal in Wilbers System is the Abyss, Nothingness, Cessation.
    • Beyond, the True Nondual opens up in daily life: Once the separate self is fully killed/transcended touching the Nothing/Nothingness/Cessation, one becomes empty enough to sustain the infinite mere appearance nondual states in daily life without any clouding/separate self/individuality covering/clouding or disfiguring IT.
  • And the subtle essence of individuality/separate self is still a subtle formless arising/feeling/lense of perception.
    • And if one hasn't fully seen through that/transcended it /sees it moving within oneself fully&fast enough, one can not see/perceive that Nothingness is the essence of everything. The visual field really "changes heart", appearances "hovering" in Infinite Nothingness, their essence Nothingness itself.

 

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

God has nothing to do with attachment or craving. This is just Buddhist dogma.

Yes to all of that. But it helps being without attachment/craving to rest in ones True Being, however one wants to call it, God or Nothingness or Infinite Reality, Universal Mind, whatever.

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The truth is that God is imagining attachment and craving as figments of its consciousness. God is also imagining Nirodha Samapatti, and every other Buddhist thing. Buddhism is a dream. God is not.

And more in my language/use of terms, God/Infinite Reality/Nothingness is indeed manifesting/imagining attachment and craving within itself. 

God/Infinite Reality/Nothingness can manifest/imagine Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha in one of its Infinite Perspectives. Or better: switch every other imagination/manifestation just off. Making for this being/human/perspective more clear what is always there, and how the separate self re-assembles when going "out" of Nothingness/Cessation and form and subject of the object arises again.

And of course Buddhism is a dream. Like everything else, and any other teaching. By definition.

• But a good/efficient dream if well done, using the right teachings from it (out of a sea of stuff that apparently doesn't work, since 99%+ of Buddhists are not enlightened), can get one to realize ones true essence.
• Unefficient dreams/teachings don't. Like a map with the drawing/description of the mountain, but no path drawn on it to get up to the peak. 

"Buddhism is a dream. God is not." Of course. Infinite Reality/Absolute/God/Universal Mind is always there, never can not be there. IT is dreaming the dream in itself, but IT not a dream.

Selling Water by the River

PS: If you are bored to death by all these concepts of yours truly, get a good laugh and look up Bazooka Jesus last Fanclub-video-post. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Water by the River

[Water by the River]

8 hours ago, RedLine said:

Oh yeah, all is imaginary, oops but the idea of "all this imaginary" is imanginary too, ooooo but the idea of " the idea of "all this imaginary"" is also imaginary.

That exactly how it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performative_contradiction

Ken Wilbers take on that is that it takes stage yellow cognition (integral thinking, Vision logic, Piaget post-formal cognition/logic) to fully get that, and to spot when one does it. And stop doing it.

Stage green cognition (relative thinking, not yet post-formal cognition) tends to have a hard time with that.

But has the potential to make a great show 

Selling Water by the River

 

PS: And even Emptiness is empty. Best is to be in the right nondual enlightened fully empty state and say “frog pond plop” (Batso). Not like the way of the way too loooong ramblings of yours truly 

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

12 hours ago, Benton said:

The only thing that exists is awake. 
Does reality have a structure? Yes you can deconstruct this but what constructed it? 
I would suggest you are sentience itself. 
Where does an ego to deconstruct come from if the only thing is nothingness? Which yes everything is nothing. But this is awake.
You are it.

 

12 hours ago, RedLine said:

Stop this sophistry. It is annyoing.

Speak clear. not spiritual poetry you repeat from the forum.

Lmao. How could the post above have been any clearer?

Okay, let's take this one step at a time, shall we:

Is there such a thing as awareness/experience? Yes or no?

[RedLine]

4 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Some musings on Nothing/Causal-States of Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha, their benefits, vs. Nondual Realization/Enlightenment in daily life:

A state of Nothing (Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha,...) is not the Absolute, it is a state happening in Nothingness/ Absolute/ Infinite/ Reality. Absolute Reality by definition is always there, never not there, can't go anywhere else (since IT is infinite).

Nondual Realization/Enlightenment: And if one can keep ones True Identity as Nothingness BEING the essence of Everything (the visual field, and the Infinite Nothingness in which it "floats") going in daily life (as , and see "IT" as the Essence/Nothingness/Suchness of every arising of the Visual Field/Infinite Consciousness), then you will have the  infinite and unconditional bliss/love flowing. That comes with the package. Or what would in the end finally switch off the separate self and its grasping for blissful-experiences finally, it not bliss without condition/cause?  "We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all". Kalu Rinpoche

• Historically, Buddhism tended to first master (Hinayana, today the surviving Theravada-forms) the Concentrative-Meditation Nothing-states (Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha, Nirvana), until later guys like Nagarjuna reached and described the ongoing nondual Realization of Nothingness as the ESSENCE not only of (Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha, Nirvana), but of the world/visual field/any manifestation. Madhyamaka came out of that, and the Nondual revolution of Mahayana.
• It is easier to get these Nothing-states via Hardcore-Concentrative-Meditation than ongoing Nondual Realization in daily life. Because for that, all separate self arisings must be transcended WHILE they arise in daily. For (Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha, Nirvana) it is enough to switch them off via concentrative meditation on the pillow. So a more brute-force-concentrative approach.
  • Many Theravada-Paths aim for Cessation. The material from Ingram and Frank Yang clearly describe that when the "cycling" through states of Cessation starts, that this is useful to understand the separate self when it reassembles going out of Cessation. But both later added some techniques similiar to Mahamudra/Dzogchen because that makes it much more efficient.
    • Both state that cessation and its path is optional, not necessary. There are cases who don't go through cessations. But these tend to take Awareness into the Sleep-State (lucid dream, or not fully blanking out when passing deep sleep. See Roger Thisdells descriptions of that for example).
  • Mahamudra/Dzogchen directly aims for Nondual Realization in daily life, but also use concentration states on the pillow. But not exclusively, and more as a starting point.
    • They have excellent techniques to make the everpresent Nothingness/Infinite Consciousness in daily life perceivable and "hold-able", and to transcend the separate-self-clouds blocking the realization that Nothingness/Reality always already is right here, right now.

Buuut the big advantage of Nothing (Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha,...) : You see what can be gone (all and everything) and the Absolute/Infinite is still "there", as in Reality/Absolute Reality never can not be there.

• So one doesn't tend to confuse the Nothingness/Reality/Infinite Potential with any kind of specific form, or perceiver/subject/separate self.
• IT makes sure that after a lot of experiences of going in and especially coming out of that state of Cessation/Nothing (and the subject/separate self/indviduality, together with the world, reassembles itself), is that one doesn't confuse Ones True Essence (Nothingness) with any form, howerever subtle or formless.
  • Yes, and there are also formless states that are still form or manifestation (not the Nothing/Cessation, since they change AND have some subtle form. Something like a formless object like i, the square root of minus 1. Ever seen it? Ever can imagine it? Yes, as formless concept. Or in Wilbers System, low subtle/high subtle and low causal.
    • High Causal in Wilbers System is the Abyss, Nothingness, Cessation.
    • Beyond, the True Nondual opens up in daily life: Once the separate self is fully killed/transcended touching the Nothing/Nothingness/Cessation, one becomes empty enough to sustain the infinite mere appearance nondual states in daily life without any clouding/separate self/individuality covering/clouding or disfiguring IT.
  • And the subtle essence of individuality/separate self is still a subtle formless arising/feeling/lense of perception.
    • And if one hasn't fully seen through that/transcended it /sees it moving within oneself fully&fast enough, one can not see/perceive that Nothingness is the essence of everything. The visual field really "changes heart", appearances "hovering" in Infinite Nothingness, their essence Nothingness itself.

 

Yes to all of that. But it helps being without attachment/craving to rest in ones True Being, however one wants to call it, God or Nothingness or Infinite Reality, Universal Mind, whatever.

And more in my language/use of terms, God/Infinite Reality/Nothingness is indeed manifesting/imagining attachment and craving within itself. 

God/Infinite Reality/Nothingness can manifest/imagine Nirodha Samapatti, Cessation, Nirvikalpha in one of its Infinite Perspectives. Or better: switch every other imagination/manifestation just off. Making for this being/human/perspective more clear what is always there, and how the separate self re-assembles when going "out" of Nothingness/Cessation and form and subject of the object arises again.

And of course Buddhism is a dream. Like everything else, and any other teaching. By definition.

• But a good/efficient dream if well done, using the right teachings from it (out of a sea of stuff that apparently doesn't work, since 99%+ of Buddhists are not enlightened), can get one to realize ones true essence.
• Unefficient dreams/teachings don't. Like a map with the drawing/description of the mountain, but no path drawn on it to get up to the peak. 

"Buddhism is a dream. God is not." Of course. Infinite Reality/Absolute/God/Universal Mind is always there, never can not be there. IT is dreaming the dream in itself, but IT not a dream.

Selling Water by the River

PS: If you are bored to death by all these concepts of yours truly, get a good laugh and look up Bazooka Jesus last Fanclub-video-post. 

10/10 quality post thank you very much.

 

A couple of thing:

1. Just to make sure. Nondual Realization/Enlightenment you mention is the same as "living withouth an ego", the 4 path, the moment to moment experience that Angelo Dullio, Frank Yank, Daniel Ingram, etc have and use to describe rigth?

2. I don´g get how can be form and this form not be formed by craving. Doesn´t it cotradict the 5 agreggates frame? it is hard for me to understand how nirodha samapatti can´t be ontologhical superior than nirvana. My current undestanding is that if those enlighten people are still alive and not went into mahasamadi is becuase they still hold some little craving for forms related to surviving.

 

I will follow closely your posts in the forum. We are in touch.

 

 

 

Edited May 24, 2023 by RedLine

[Yimpa]

4 hours ago, Water by the River said:

But it helps being without attachment/craving to rest in ones True Being, however one wants to call it, God or Nothingness or Infinite Reality, Universal Mind, whatever.

The idea of having to be without attachment/craving won’t even exist when you’re awake to such a high degree. You’ll understand everything; that idea will hold absolutely no weight.

[Breakingthewall]

14 hours ago, RedLine said:

challenge you to convice me that the God/Atman/Infinite love, etc as essence of reality makes any sense

Its quite obvious. reality is simply the absence of limits. the absence of limits inevitably derives in total existence, it is impossible for it to be otherwise.

if there are no limits, and that supposes the total existence, and you are, as you can verify by the fact of being, you are the total existence.

the finite is not real, it is apparent. you are infinite, you are limitless, and you are total existence. Hallelujah. it is completely simple, unavoidable, redundant. just abstract from all your ideas and be the now. you will see it clearly.

[Water by the River]

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

1. Just to make sure. Nondual Realization/Enlightenment you mention is the same as "living withouth an ego", the 4 path, the moment to moment experience that Angelo Dullio, Frank Yank, Daniel Ingram, etc have and use to describe rigth?

Yes. Don't know Angelo Dulio (but Ingram and Yangs descriptions). Full Enlightenment has the same deep structure always. Only one Nothingness/Reality/Infinite Consciousness/Universal Mind. Without a second. But the way & style being talked about it later varies from perspective to perspective.

And to be more precise: The ego (as technical term) or character continues doing its thing. The separate-self-arisings/elements gets understood/seen in real time (and in all its aspect) as illusions moving in oneself, and are transcended and normally cut off (Trekchö) as Illusion. Unnecessary. Awakaned Awareness takes over, and lives ones life much more efficient than the old biased separate-self ever could. Waaay more pleasant. "One" just gets out of the way.

• Like a lense of perception, normally with some kind of location/center, with I-feelings and I-thoughts.
• That drops.
• What remains is an Understanding/Realization of
  • that which can never not be there, Reality itself.
  • That is Nothingness/Infinite Consciousness. The essence of all appearance, including the visual field, is that.
  • That Nothingness is infinite, since any boundary to anything else would be form, an imagined arising.
  • and while there are Infinite Perspectives in Indras Net, non-dimensionally "hovering" or being manifested/imagined in Nothingness (out of which you normally forget all but "your" perspective (and call that your life), the Awareness of all of these perspectives can ever only be that Infinite Nothingness, which is also the essence/Suchness of every appearance.
  • Deep Structures of the process towards Enlightenment. To get there, you need at least the following Awakenings (discrete "hard" STATES, induced by meditation, psychedelic, karma, ..., that one can not jump with just conceptual thinking/videos/whatever. That ends with one form of Solipsism or another, a cul-de-sac)
    • the ego-mind becoming a fully transparent witness (Mahamudra. Yoga 1 & 2): Death/Transcendence of the ego/person. Outcome Transparent Witness. Not yet death/Transcendence of the Indviduality/last subtle separate selves.
    • Nonduality with the visual field (Mahamudra, Yoga of One Taste, Stage 3). Induced and boosted by the step above.
    • the visual field becoming boundless/infinite (further ripening of One Taste Yoga): Infinite
    • the Awakening that Consciousness is Nothingness, nothing that can ever be pointed to, and the Awakening that each and every appearance of the visual field IS Nothingness, its essence is Nothingness (further ripening of One Taste Yoga). Generalizing this awakening/understanding to any possible manifestation.
    • the Awakening to this boundless infinite visual field/Consciousness being also timeless, eternal, never-not-here. Deathless alway-here-Mind.
    • the "you" becoming nothing at all, no center, no lense, no feeling, no thought. Or all of that moving through you like the wind: Mahamudra, Yoga of Nonmeditation, stage 4.
      • The visual field remains, but without you. Impersonal. That is a ripening process of Impersonality (similiar to the ripening of Nonduality in the Yoga of One Taste), which
      • ends suddenly with waking up, or Full Enlightenment, crossing over to the Dharmakaya or whatever lingo floats ones boat.
      • That is Full Enlightenment. Basis Enlightenment in Mahamudra. Fully Waking up to ones True Identity. The Awakenings of Yoga of One Taste, Stage 3, are already called Enlightenments, for example in Zen. That is a much more common Enlightenment than the real one, Basis Enlightenment. 
        • That is why for example Leo emphasizes in God Realization that True You/Reality/"God" (I am reluctant to use that word, not because it is technically incorrect, but because it can lead to a lot of Separate-Self-Boosting) imagines everything. That becomes fully clear with Full Enlightenment/Basis Enlightenment, realizing the full identity of oneself and Reality. Infinite Nothingness manifesting/imagining the whole gig. Like in couldn't be different, nowhere and in no dimension/time/anything. Can't be.
•  That was a longer musing than I expected. These are the Deep Structures of the process of Enlightenment. that I have found in ANY Enlightenment-Path-Description. (like in: a few hundreds of books later. You know, nutcase...). 
• You can have that and do that with cessations and a concentrative meditation path, or Dzogchen/Mahamudra. One doesn't need cessations, as Ingram and Yang confirm. Both (and also Wilber) changed later to include Mahamudra/Dzogchen elements. That gave at least yours truly something to think about. Good book for Mahamudra: Pointing out the Great Way, Brown. Many posts of yours truly on that also...

And one little warning: Without the corresponding Awakening states, one will

• a) not understand (or get) Nonduality or Union with the (infinite) visual field by just conceptual description (for example of the one of yours truly above). No chance. But you can recognize when that starts to happen when you know the map of the path. You can know how to induce that with practice, and how to make out of a spark a forest fire
• b) not understand the full Impersonal nature of ones true being (Nothingness), the death and transcendence of the separate self. That is impossible before it fully happens. But one can get at least an idea when the ripening of that happens. When it fully happens, its clear. Unmistakenably so. Waking Up.

So the "game"/path is to induce these states, via for example the practices described above. And then there is a cycle of meditation state->realization/understanding->boosting more meditation state (because it got more impersonal) -> more realization/understanding n+1.

"Thinking" ones way to Oneness/God/ItsallIMAGINED and itSAULGOODMAN doesn't work, only leads to Ego/Separate-Self-Solipsism.

 

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

2. I don´g get how can be form and this form not be formed by craving. Doesn´t it cotradict the 5 agreggates frame? it is hard for me to understand how nirodha samapatti can´t be ontologhical superior than nirvana. 

The 5 aggregate frame is from the earliest phases of Buddhism. Buddhism tended to end at (and emphasize) causal states back in the day (like Nirvana/Cessation/Nothingness as state). That mostly got replaced (transcended and in included) with superior realizations later, Nondual in Ken Wilbers language (Nagarjuna,  Madhyamaka). That basically means not loosing ones Identity as Nothingness being the whole Infinite Field (and the essence of that being Nothingness, not metaphorically but literally, as direct experience) as Nothingness. A nice statement from that stage is: - We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all.- Kalu Rinpoche. That is a statement one doesn't normally here from the early Buddhism phases.

• There is only one Nothingness, but the states can be a bit different on however the Nothingness is approached. However one defines Cessation, Nirvana, Nirvikalpha, nirodha samapatti, its all in the class of Causal State experiences of Ken Wilber. Causal in the meaning of Source, Nothingness.
• Nice article on nirodha samapatti  https://medium.com/@rogerthis/lets-talk-nirodha-samapatti-insights-into-valance-and-the-supposed-ontic-primacy-of-consciousness-fd78a38f3d28

1 hour ago, RedLine said:

My current undestanding is that if those enlighten people are still alive and not went into mahasamadi is becuase they still hold some little craving for forms related to surviving.

Yours truly would recommend forgetting the concept of Mahasamadhi. Cultural Baggage. Why should that happen? So much effort for the whole imagined/manifested show, and then its game over when one understand what one is? Doesn't happen in practice, and why should it? For the first time, one can play and celebrate manifestation without the fear and lack and cycle of suffering. That is the True Nondual Realization.

• It is not the scarcity and quite negative perspective of escaping suffering and reaching Nirvana that early Buddhism/Hinayana had.
• It is the full celebration of manifestation, full with Agape, and if done in an integral way and with intelligence just a beautiful dream.
• See Francis Lucille for example. He calls it life is a celebration then. It is. He has a very sane perspective on all of that. 

And please feel invited to review my archieve of posts for more details because yours truly is God, marvels all day at his own perfection, of course has madly fallen in LOVE with himself, and nobody else is awake, you are all dreaming, and only God can describe himself in the best way of all Multiverses possible since there are no others, and everbody else is wrong because or biased and so on and so on (put in the Solipsistic Ramblings of your preference n+1), and its all imagined anyway!!!  Sorry, just kidding of course. If you like that channel, just ask and you will helped by various proponents of Absolute Solipsism and other funny concepts 

Selling Water by the River

PS: Very necessary, after all this conceptual overkill of yours truly:

• Bassui: After having read the letter, drop it into the fire
• Much more true than all the stuff written above: “frog pond plop” Basho

Edited May 24, 2023 by Water by the River

[Water by the River]

52 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

The idea of having to be without attachment/craving won’t even exist when you’re awake to such a high degree. You’ll understand everything; that idea will hold absolutely no weight.

I mean the ripening phase of for example Yoga of One Taste nor Nonmeditation-Yoga with resting in Ones True Being. It is not fully clear at that phase. After crossing over/waking up/Basis Enlightenment it is.

I didn't write clearly in this paragraph you quoted.

The speciality of Mahamudra in general, and Yoga of One Taste and Yoga of Nonmeditation especially, is pointing out as much as possible from ones True Nature at each stage, and bringing forth the benefit of resting/training in these states. And going from meditation state induction to realization/understanding to further meditation state experience to realization, and so on. Like in a upwards-going spiral.

Selling Water by the River

[OldManCorcoran]

15 hours ago, RedLine said:

Oh yeah, all is imaginary, oops but the idea of "all this imaginary" is imanginary too, ooooo but the idea of " the idea of "all this imaginary"" is also imaginary.

Mental loop. Mental masturbation.

Legit.

[OldManCorcoran]

States like that or like general anaesthetic, the viewpoint you have about those events is egocentric or "Atman"-centric by the concept of it.

Because you are considering this from the point of view where you are a being which views things as opposed to being the actual phenomena being viewed.

So from your conception of the idea, you are not currently seeing the interior of my house (which I am seeing) because you know directly that you are seeing whatever is in front of you. That is the difference in conceptualization because in that way, there is a me, and a you, who is viewing these sights. As opposed to the existence of the viewing of the object itself, almost like things see themselves without us ever being there. So whenever things appear they appear unto themselves, and it is always LIKE you are the one seeing it. Which makes sense when removing the idea of the existence of the "you".

Without ideas of souls or "Atmans" or whatever, there is ONLY the appearing object by itself. So if you hear a specific piece of music right now, and then I listen to that same piece of music tomorrow, it is identical both times, as there isn't a you and a me which hears the music in question, only the fact of the appearance of that music.

There are logical certainties (I think certainties) about this idea. I like to use origami metaphors, because when you make something out of paper it's impossible to ever find any element of the shape you make which isn't substantially paper. So existence itself, it is impossible for any viewing to be done by anything else. That's the absolute unity of the situation.

Edited May 24, 2023 by OldManCorcoran