Peter Ralston’s take on solipsism

[Osaid]

I don't think Leo ever said other people are meat-suits. This is just a materialistic anthropomorphizing of the message Leo is trying to convey. All these solipsism threads are just endless intellectualizations.

Anyways, this is a great answer from Ralston.

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, JellyDogShoe_1Mil said:

All this talk on solipsism is mental masturbation, c'mon. 

Whether it is valid or not does not change a thing. The show goes on. 

Really, solipsism is just another concept. 

You are. Being is. Stop there. You cannot possibly deny your own existence. Apparent "others" are that too. It does not change shit. Your apparent body still interacts with apparent others, pays apparent bills and still eats apparent food. Give it up. 

You is a concept, are is a concept, Being is a concept. All language is conceptualization. So no..YOU stop that. You literally cannot communicate without concepts. Concepts= Meaning. 

[JellyDogShoe_1Mil]

Just now, Razard86 said:

You is a concept, are is a concept, Being is a concept. All language is conceptualization. So no..YOU stop that. You literally cannot communicate without concepts. Concepts= Meaning. 

I agree, so solipsism can now be dropped. 

[Water by the River]

15 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

You is a concept, are is a concept, Being is a concept. All language is conceptualization. So no..YOU stop that. You literally cannot communicate without concepts. Concepts= Meaning. 

Razard, your writing/post above is also only concepts.

You disagree with the concepts of others, using concepts yourself. Your logic (or any kind of logic) is also based on your concepts.

You are doing something called Performative Contradiction all the time:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performative_contradiction

But you attack only concepts you don't like, not your own. And you do that because you apparently LIKE doing that. Because it boosts your worldview (aka Ego), mainly selling the concept of Solipsism. And why do you like that concept of Solipsism? Because you can run a huge show with it. A leave it to the readers to decide what kind of show that is....

All concepts are only relative, none of them are Absolute Truth. Mine and yours! They all only arise in Absolute Truth/Reality.

The quality of concepts as pointers/path is determined only by where they lead (their relative truth): To realizing the Absolute beyond concepts, or Enlightement or ones True Self, or not. Or more into the claws of the separate self-contraction and its narcicissm and grandiosity, which only leads to more suffering. 

And since this True Self if fully empty and impersonal, you can not pass the Gateless Gate when you are not fully empty. And Solipsism and the concepts you propagate do not empty oneself, Neti Neti. They rather tend to boost ones separate self with narcicissm and self-grandiosity.

Your path of killing any concept you don't like "with its all concept" is contradictory, leading to you yourself being contradictoy. Which is just another word for suffering.

All the best

Selling Water by the River

Edited May 20, 2023 by Water by the River

[WeCome1]

6 minutes ago, JellyDogShoe_1Mil said:

I agree, so solipsism can now be dropped. 

[BlessedLion]

2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Peter Ralston is not awake. I like him, but he isn't awake not really. 

Utter idiocy 

[BlessedLion]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

solipsism is the truth. Only you exist, the others are imaginary. That does not mean that the others do not exist. only you exist, and the others too. But the thing is: you are the totality, the absolute. Nothing is outside you, outside don't exist. The others are inside you, everything is inside you because you are infinite. Really, right now. You are me.

Yes but then everyone is having that and everyone is God. Infinity of Gods. People are real. See how this just keeps going in circles. 
 

Also I feel this is a more psychedelic insight than anything else which is something to consider. It seems only those who trip come to this solipsism thing. Never heard of it like this way from any great masters 

[SeaMonster]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

But Solipsism as a pointer, as an injunction, an actual practice, doesn't lead to the Absolute. It leads to Narcicissm if done from the level of the separate self well & alive. 

It does not lead to narcissism.

The philosophy stems from narcissism in the first place.  It is the complete opposite of enlightenment, it is the ego rationalizing its own existence (in other words, a reinforcement of the false belief that the I-thought concept is.)

You can only "accept" solipsism if you have strong narcissistic tendencies in the first place.  

Enlightenment is about seeing through the I-thought; solipsism is about universalizing the I-thought (in other words it's about maximal ego inflation.)

And strong narcissistic tendencies = a broken person who needs to prop up a "special", grandiose false self.

Edited May 20, 2023 by SeaMonster

[Yimpa]

9 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

Utter idiocy 

More like idiosyncrasy.

[ChrisZoZo]

2 hours ago, KGrimes said:

They are not a real assertion based on real consciousness

The classic case of people asserting absolute authority yet if you ask if they know this is the case they say they can’t.
 

“at the entrance to the hall of science there is a sign that “all in hall is wrong””. This is a paraphrase taking from Leo’s video. He is quoting someone else. 

[BlessedLion]

4 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

More like idiosyncrasy.

….sigh ….facepalm

[ChrisZoZo]

2 hours ago, JellyDogShoe_1Mil said:

All this talk on solipsism is mental masturbation, c'mon. 

Whether it is valid or not does not change a thing. The show goes on. 

Really, solipsism is just another concept. 

You are. Being is. Stop there. You cannot possibly deny your own existence. Apparent "others" are that too. It does not change shit. Your apparent body still interacts with apparent others, pays apparent bills and still eats apparent food. Give it up.

consciousness is so resourceful in helping consciousness (otherparts of its self) understand consciousness better. Don’t be so quick to assume that consciousness can’t use an idea to help it’s self.  

[Moksha]

1 minute ago, ChrisZoZo said:

consciousness is so resourceful in helping consciousness (otherparts of its self) understand consciousness better. Don’t be so quick to assume that consciousness can’t use an idea to help it’s self.  

This is true. Not only does the absolute use apparent expressions of itself to guide other apparent expressions to itself, but it is patiently shrewd in doing so. For most people, enlightenment is a progression, built on a series of semi-truths which gradually become more pure the deeper awareness realizes itself.

[SeaMonster]

2 minutes ago, Moksha said:

This is true. Not only does the absolute use apparent expressions of itself to guide other apparent expressions to itself, but it is patiently shrewd in doing so.

That is not how people think.

There are two paths people can take: a path of "copium" (which is acceptance of ideas and beliefs that prop up the ego [false self status quo]) or that which leads one away from it towards greater integration.

The first path is EASY (in the sense that it just perpetuates one's defenses.) The second is HARD (because it challenges them) and out of your comfort zone.

So in essence all these "ideas" can either perpetuate the status quo or to lead one somewhere new.  The problem is many people CANNOT TELL which one is which.

[Yimpa]

Just now, SeaMonster said:

So in essence all these "ideas" can either perpetuate the status quo or to lead one somewhere new.  The problem is many people CANNOT TELL which one is which.

Definitely a feature; not a bug.

[Water by the River]

3 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

It seems only those who trip come to this solipsism thing. Never heard of it like this way from any great masters 

Solipsism and Infinity of Gods is what you end with when you have understood a lot about the manifestated side of Reality/Consciousness  (infinite mere appearance hovering nondual in Nothingness), which you can (more or less easily) access via psychedelics. But one oneself is not normally fully Empty/Impersonal Consciousness then. Not full Impersonal Nothingness. Of course one then has to project the remnants of the Inviduality/feelings of being OF something on reality (I am God, sovereign, all of it, all of this God/Buddhafield/Universe/Dimension). Because, as per my last post, the separate self can't fully imagine not being there anymore. If it could, it would be gone right away/enlightened/wake up.

Traditional Great Masters had to "generate" this Nonduality/Unity states (infinite mere appearance hovering nondual in Nothingness) via getting empty/impersonal/transcending the separate self. Believe me, that takes a looong time of getting pretty empty/transcending the separate self arisings as an optional show within oneself. So they understand the impersonal empty aspect of Nothingness/Consciousness BEFORE they understand the manifested side (nondual, infinite, mere appearance hovering in Nothingness) of Infinite Consciousness, because these states they only get when being fully empty and impersonal themselves. Pure Consciousness/Reality, nothing specific, no separate self left.

Its some kind of "build-in-quality-control" of the classical meditation paths (Neti Neti): You only get to see the Infinite/mere appearance/nondual Nothingness-aspect of the manifestations of the visual field (any kind of field) when being fully empty/Nothingness.

So what should one get to see in theory (and apparently in practice also) if one ends up after "seeing" the infinite manifestation of Infinite Consciousness/God while not fully being nothing/Nothingness/God-proper?

• Solipsism (1) (or the separate self remnants realizing its identity with THIS universe/Buddha-Field/all of it). And that is "true" in so far that there are psychedelic experiences that very much feel like that. But a partial truth, there is more to go, higher truths... Full Enlightenment/Deep Identity Change to full empty Nothingness.
• and pushing even further, see Video "Infinity of Gods (2)", OTHER Gods/Buddhafields. Or Infinity of Gods. Thats the utmost peak of that cul-de-sac, because: Oh no, there are OTHERS like "oneself". And an Infinity of them. An Infinity of Gods. Problem: Very Nondual and infinite and Oneness and being Ultimate Reality/Absolute indeed....
  • So, a (2) continuation of another partial truth (1). Not the end of the story, but something that can happen, depending on the path up the mountain. A direct experience, that needs to be unpacked and interpreted.
    • And the final truth is: Full Enlightenment/Deep Identity Change to full empty Nothingness. No other. One without a second. And: Nothing further. The understanding that one fooled oneself in ingenious ways (like, the whole show, a rabbit hole infinitely deep...) , and the complexity how one fools oneself, comes included with Enlightenment (by definition). Its all appearance within oneself, all illusion. 

What would be necessary now,at (1) or (2), would be to fully die/transcend ones separate self-arisings, becoming fully impersonal and nothing/empty, realizing ones Deep Identity with Nothingness/Absolute Reality. And then one throws out (better: transcends, or spots fast enough while it arises in oneself and just cuts it off, automated-style) each and every subtle concept/feeling of oneself and of the Absolute/Reality, for the Absolute CONTAINS them all, but is NONE of them. The Absolute/Nothingness can only be described in negative language, of what it is not. In-finite. Not finite. Not measurable, not defineable. Reality itself. But for that, one needs normally a lot of time in these empty and impersonal states (if ones name is not Ramana, one probably does).

So how much 5 MeO can a human take, and how empty of any form of separate self are these states really? The tried and true technique is and ever has been meditation, or transcending/dying of each and every arising of the separate-self (transcending, or spotting fast enough while it arises in oneself and just cuts it off, automated-style), delivering as much time in these empty impersonal states, the Portals of the Absolute, see one of my last posts, as necessary.

By the way, I am in no way against psychedelics. Psychedelics plus meditation. So psychedelics alone remains a dangerous path with potential for ego/separate self-inflation, instead of full ego/separate-self transcedence/death, until spiritual culture fully gets to grips with these quite new phenomena of highly efficient psychedelics like 5 MeO and so on.

But the psychedelic path is here, and it won't go away. We will see its challenges, disfunctions and trainwrecks, its sweetness for the ego to hijack it for narcicissm/solipsism/hybris and ego inflation, being explored first time in scale in broad daylight here in this forum. Probably until the end of our days. But also the vast potential of this path. Let's see if the dark side or the light side of the force prevails. I don't know, let's see. Probably a mix of both.

In the longterm, the light side of the force prevails as always, simply because the Kosmos wants to grow in evolution/complexity/awakening to itself, but until then if history shows anything any misuse and f***up possible will be fully expored and savored by humanity. Until it finally gets it right. So: Show must go on.  

And I am waiting and looking forward very much for the first ever fully empty/impersonal/fully enlightened Alienmind walking here on earth on two legs, thinking and understanding the Kosmos/Reality in non-linear ways like never seen before in simple non-psychedelic-boosted human mind-streams. 

The content and aspects of that post is more elaborated in my previous posts.

Selling Water by the River

[Water by the River]

1 minute ago, Yimpa said:

Definitely a feature; not a bug.

Yes, definitely a feature. To get the show going, one needs the separate-self, the seductress Maya fooling most mindstreams into her illusion-game, using mainly narcissm/self-importance as a motivation-carrot. Maslow stage 4.

But then, one also need a pull towards transcendence, evolution, growing complexity of the Kosmos. Like in atoms->molecules->bateria->plants->animals->humans-> awakened beings.

And that pull is both suffering, but also especially wisdom&inspiration to grow.

And as Leo eloquently said: The fool doesn't know or understand its foolishness. The fool thinks of his insights as wisdom, and all others and even wise ones as fools. Couldn't be different.

Take away any feature of the game, and there wouldn't have been a functioning game/Lila/Evolution/Survival.

Selling Water by the River

[SeaMonster]

6 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

By the way, I am in no way against psychedelics. Psychedelics plus meditation. So psychedelics alone remains a dangerous path with potential for ego/separate self-inflation, instead of full ego/separate-self transcedence/death, until spiritual culture fully gets to grips with these quite new phenomena of highly efficient psychedelics like 5 MeO and so on.

But the psychedelic path is here, and it won't go away. We will see its challenges, disfunctions and trainwrecks, its sweetness for the ego to hijack it for narcicissm/solipsism/hybris and ego inflation, being explored first time in scale in broad daylight here in this forum. Probably until the end of our days. But also the vast potential of this path. Let's see if the dark side or the light side of the force prevails. I don't know, let's see. Probably a mix of both.

If one is strong in narcissism, has full-blown NPD, psychopathy and so forth, inflation from psychedelics is a guaranteed outcome.  This is how you get e.g. cult leaders and similar types.

So psychedelics are definitely not advised for people like that (not that they would take the advice anyway, since they don't see themselves as such.)

So there simply are going to be quite a few trainwrecks on that path.

[SeaMonster]

7 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

And as Leo eloquently said: The fool doesn't know or understand its foolishness. The fool thinks of his insights as wisdom, and all others and even wise ones as fools. Couldn't be different.

But that's not even right.  The fool doesn't understand himself, doesn't know himself.  One's insights can be independent of self-knowledge.  You can be the smartest, wisest person in the world on an abstract level and not having it mean anything personally.  And an idiot can know himself well, be a holy fool type.

[Water by the River]

1 minute ago, SeaMonster said:

But that's not even right.  The fool doesn't understand himself, doesn't know himself.  One's insights can be independent of self-knowledge.  You can be the smartest, wisest person in the world on an abstract level and not having it mean anything personally.  And an idiot can know himself well, be a holy fool type.

Sure, agree.

But I tried to stay close to Leos fool-analogy. And everbody, even the non-wise, think they act&think the most wisest&smartest way possible. Else, by definition, they would think differently.

Water by the River