It is Solipsistic, yes, but NOT from the point of view of the ego

[Yimpa]

@Carl-Richard Next step is to be done with the form.

/s

[Carl-Richard]

2 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

@Carl-Richard Next step is to be done with the form.

/s

Release me

[Sincerity]

27 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I'm so done with this forum ?

solipsism ?

[Frenk]

There must be a strong reason within our nature why solipsism never stops about being discussed. Maybe because its the most radical thing one can realize?

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, Frenk said:

There must be a strong reason within our nature why solipsism never stops about being discussed. Maybe because its the most radical thing one can realize?

I grew up Roman Catholic, went to private school, and my family follows the faith. Solipsism was never discussed, taught, or mentioned.

I mentioned about it recently to my family. To say the least, I can tell that they are scared about it. 

It’s a major threat to those who are on the lower stages and have no idea of anything higher.

[Javfly33]

16 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

solipism is true in the sense that your direct experience is reality and you will never get out of it. outside of your direct experience it is impossible, it does not exist. It's like saying out of infinity. but that does not mean that the others are not real. Here is the difficulty or impossibility of understanding this. the others are also your direct experience, but you are blind to it. being blind to it is equivalent to not existing, but they exist potentially in this now, like everything else. Like, they will exist when you stop being blind to it, or they existed when you were not blind to it. When you talk with anyone, you talk with yourself in another when, another dimension. Both are real, but for you, only your experience is the reality, the whole absolute

@Breakingthewall You can get out of your direct experience in the sense that the apparent limits of the direct experience can fall away.

In other words, seems that you want to say is, "If I don't see the Statue of Liberty from my house in New Jersey I can never ever verify that it exists".

And I'm telling you, there are tools such as binoculars so the Statue of Liberty can 'enter' and become your direct experience.

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Javfly33

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Javfly33 said:

You can get out of your direct experience in the sense that the apparent limits of the direct experience can fall away.

In other words, seems that you want to say is, "If I don't see the Statue of Liberty from my house in New Jersey I can never ever verify that it exists".

And I'm telling you, there are tools such as binoculars so the Statue of Liberty can 'enter' and become your direct experience.

 

The thing is not that the Statue of Liberty, the others or whatever exist or not, it's that absolutely everything you think about is... a thought. reality is the limitless depth of this moment, there is nothing outside. outside is an idea of the mind. it is not false or true, it is an idea of the mind that occurs in this moment now. if you give it reality, you fragment yourself, and that is the dream.

[Javfly33]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The thing is not that the Statue of Liberty, the others or whatever exist or not, it's that absolutely everything you think about is... a thought. reality is the limitless depth of this moment, there is nothing outside. outside is an idea of the mind. it is not false or true, it is an idea of the mind that occurs in this moment now. if you give it reality, you fragment yourself, and that is the dream.

6 hours ago, Frenk said:

 

Is a sound a thought? Or is Life/consciousness?

Precisely because consciousness/life is not the human and does not exist within the human whatsoever, is not bound to the limits of the 'eyes' or the 'ears' of the human. Neither the mind.

[Javfly33]

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

. reality is the limitless depth of this moment

@Breakingthewall And what is wrong with that? If this moment it's limitless for you, of course there is nothing outside, because you just said it's limitless ??

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

@Breakingthewall And what is wrong with that? If this moment it's limitless for you, of course there is nothing outside, because you just said it's limitless ??

Exactly, the limits are apparent and are the history which is developed in mental software. Outside is just an idea 

[Javfly33]

32 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Exactly, the limits are apparent and are the history which is developed in mental software. Outside is just an idea 

???infinite Oneness my friend ??

[Carl-Richard]

9 hours ago, Frenk said:

There must be a strong reason within our nature why solipsism never stops about being discussed.

There is really not. It's really only on this forum, purely a cultural artefact from Leo being edgy.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Water by the River]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's really not. It's only on this forum. It's purely a cultural artefact from Leo being edgy.

True.

On an Absolute Level, IT truly is solipsistic. When ones identity is truly Fully Empty Impersonal Infinite Consciousness. But then, there is no point talking about it.... to whom?  Because if one talks to beings with ego/separate-self still not fully transcended, what is described below normally  happens (1).

And if "going Solipsism" while the ego/separate self still is not fully transcended (which is in 99% of cases the case), it is normally is (or ends) in a hilarious narcissistic ego-show of the highest degree. And that narcissistic ego-show is the opposite of transcending the separate self/ego towards True Impersonal Infinite Consciousness. So either way, its a bad idea.

And why is Solipsism so attractive? (1) To blow up ones Ego/separate self to more than it is, grandiose-narcissistic-self-importance-style. And that is the opposite of the spiritual path, or dying/transcending of ones separate self illusions, letting go of it, to discover newer/larger and more empty identities....

Selling Water by the River

[Carl-Richard]

12 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

True.

On an Absolute Level, IT truly is solipsistic. When ones identity is truly Fully Empty Impersonal Infinite Consciousness. But then, there is no point talking about it.... to whom?  Because if one talks to beings with ego/separate-self still not fully transcended, what is described below normally  happens (1).

And that is why it makes zero sense to say "only you experience pain, go slap a person to prove it", as that is dealing with personal selves and not the impersonal self.

 

14 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

And if "going Solipsism" while the ego/separate self still is not fully transcended (which is in 99% of cases the case), it is normally is (or ends) in a hilarious narcissistic ego-show of the highest degree. And that narcissistic ego-show is the opposite of transcending the separate self/ego towards True Impersonal Infinite Consciousness. So either way, its a bad idea.

And why is Solipsism so attractive? (1) To blow up ones Ego/separate self to more than it is, grandiose-narcissistic-self-importance-style. And that is the opposite of the spiritual path, or dying/transcending of ones separate self illusions, letting go of it, to discover newer/larger and more empty identities....

Selling Water by the River

Q.E.D.

[Breakingthewall]

38 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

And that is why it makes zero sense to say "only you experience pain, go slap a person to prove it", as that is dealing with personal selves and not the impersonal self.

makes sense if you want to awake (without the slapping) . thinking that others exist creates the illusion of something external to you. as an infinite total absolute, there is nothing external to you. then someone will say: yes, but now you are not infinite, you are a part of reality. It is not like this. It seems impossible and false, but the trick is masterfully constructed. At the moment in which you think that the others exist, and are having an experience, you have completely fallen into the illusion. this does not mean that the others do not exist. Whether they exist or not means absolutely nothing, it is a mental construction, like all histories, the software that is running. thinking that they exist creates apparent fragmentation. thinking that they do not exist focuses you on reality, the now. First order reality is now, merge with it because you are the now. Thinking of others is the separating agent, creating an apparent separation between the now and an illusory you.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Water by the River]

20 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

makes sense if you want to awake (without the slapping) . thinking that others exist creates the illusion of something external to you. as an infinite total absolute, there is nothing external to you. then someone will say: yes, but now you are not infinite, you are a part of reality. It is not like this. It seems impossible and false, but the trick is masterfully constructed. At the moment in which you think that the others exist, and are having an experience, you have completely fallen into the illusion. this does not mean that the others do not exist. Whether they exist or not means absolutely nothing, it is a mental construction, like all histories, the software that is running. thinking that they exist creates apparent fragmentation. thinking that they do not exist focuses you on reality, the now. First order reality is now, merge with it because you are the now. Thinking of others is the separating agent, creating an apparent separation between the now and an illusory you.

Yes, agree.

Please allow me some further musings (not specifically adressed to your post, just some general ramblings)....

Others don't exist. Yes. But at the same time, "oneself"/separate self also does not exist. Exist=Ex-ist, or literally: standing out from Reality. Practically: really doesn't exist. Just an illusion. Has the same level of reality/existence as the tree "one" watches: an arising illusion. In reality, when the separate self illusion no longer arises, the tree is watching itself, perceptions perceiving themselves.

And practically speaking:

1. If one gets rid of the fake illusory separate-self, the problem of "others" is also solved: Non Dual. No others. Not Two. But also not one.... Because one doesn't make sense without two. Reality itself. Is not one. Is not two. Is infinite. And that Reality is fully empty, fully impersonal, perceptions perceiving themselves.
2. If one gets rid of others first before getting rid/transcending ones separate self, one gets the solipsism-narcissm show. And nothing with real Nonduality, not two, but just a ego-show of the highest degree.

Neti Neti. The deep structure of EVERY spiritual path. Before becoming everything, one has to become nothing. Nothingness. Because if one doesn't, one isn't fully empty/Nothingness, which is the essence of every appearance. Path (1) is hard, its transcending/letting go/death and dying of the separate self. Path (2) seems easy (just change some concepts/thinking, et voila), but backfires at the end. It just doesn't work, suffering continues.

So if one is not fully empty/impersonal/fully Nothingness (goal path 1), only thing left to do (path 2) to is to project this more (like an empty witness) or less (like the fully narcicisstic ego-separate-self-grandiosity-show) onto a more or less nondual field.

True nonduality is being fully empty/impersonal. Its very easy to get a nondual experience merging with the visual field while not being empty, still being a separate self with individuality: Just drop some Psychedelics.... Nondual is not enlightened (or fully imperpersonal Nothingness being Everything, or Reality itself). But Nonduality is a prerequisite of realizing true Nonduality, or the fully empty impersonal Enlightenment/Nonduality, realizing ones Identity as Reality itself.

Empty, Impersonal Nothingness, or Pure Empty Impersonal Infinite Consciousness. The essence of all arisings, Infinite Reality itself, the Absolute.

Thou shalt not be able to see my face; for no man shall see my face, and live. - Exodus 33:20

Selling Water by the River

 

 

[Carl-Richard]

52 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

makes sense if you want to awake (without the slapping) . thinking that others exist creates the illusion of something external to you. as an infinite total absolute, there is nothing external to you. then someone will say: yes, but now you are not infinite, you are a part of reality. It is not like this. It seems impossible and false, but the trick is masterfully constructed. At the moment in which you think that the others exist, and are having an experience, you have completely fallen into the illusion. this does not mean that the others do not exist. Whether they exist or not means absolutely nothing, it is a mental construction, like all histories, the software that is running. thinking that they exist creates apparent fragmentation. thinking that they do not exist focuses you on reality, the now. First order reality is now, merge with it because you are the now. Thinking of others is the separating agent, creating an apparent separation between the now and an illusory you.

You can erode the separation between self and other without invoking the concept of private experiences. It's in fact a non sequitur. You don't have to deny that a rock has a private experience to realize your oneness with it, so it's the same with anything else. You don't have to deny that Jupiter is a planet for you to realize oneness with it, or that flowers are red. You just have to know what these things fundamentally are, which is like you say mental constructions. And if anything, other people's experiences will only become more apparent when you actually erode the separation between self and other.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

You don't have to deny that a rock has a private experience to realize your oneness with it,

It is not just realizing your unity with the rock, it is eliminating for a while the idea of "out" and allowing the now to open up, lose its limitation, it is a kind of change in frequency, from linear movement to a stopped depth