It is Solipsistic, yes, but NOT from the point of view of the ego

[Javfly33]

I see a lot of people falling into this trap, and I myself fell to it in the past.

Solipsism, yes. But from the point of view of God (which is not a point of view, obviously, but using that word as a means to understand ourselves).

Not from the point of view of the ego.

The problem is that you guys keep wanting to grasp this stuff while maintaining an ego-consciousness and a feeling of PERSONALITY and REFERENCE in your current direct experience. Trying to grasp the 'teaching' with this will inevitably guide you to delusion. 

There is no personal experience or reference point of view in consciousness. Solipsism as a 'personal truth' can not exist because you as a human don't exist, you are not a body and you are not a psychological process.

As long as you are identified with any personal view or conclusion, you will not get it. No matter how many times 'you awake', what matters is NOW, what you 'think' you are now. As long as there is an identification process, there is delusion. As long as there is a sense of you existing within something (like a body), there is a delusion. The end.

Work on the delusion, less on trying to understand. Understanding is not awakening.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Javfly33

[Water by the River]

6 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

I see a lot of people falling into this trap, and I myself fell to it in the past.

Solipsism, yes. But from the point of view of God (which is not a point of view, obviously, but using that word as a means to understand ourselves).

Not from the point of view of the ego.

The problem is that you guys keep wanting to grasp this stuff while maintaining an ego-consciousness and a feeling of PERSONALITY and REFERENCE in your current direct experience. Trying to grasp the 'teaching' with this will inevitably guide you to delusion. 

There is no personal experience or reference point of view in consciousness. Solipsism as a 'personal truth' can not exist because you as a human don't exist, you are not a body and you are not a psychological process.

As long as you are identified with any personal view or conclusion, you will not get it. No matter how many times 'you awake', what matters is NOW, what you 'think' you are now. As long as there is an identification process, there is delusion. As long as there is a sense of you existing within something (like a body), there is a delusion. The end.

Work on the delusion, less on trying to understand. Understanding is not awakening.

Yes. Nice that you write this post. Very true.

>"Solipsism, yes. But from the point of view of God (which is not a point of view, obviously, but using that word as a means to understand ourselves). Not from the point of view of the ego [separate self]."

Not from the point of view of the ego/separate self!

And Solipsism from "the view" of the One without a second, or Absolute Reality/Infinite Consciousness/Suchness/Reality itself doesn't even really need to be mentioned.

• Because there literally is nothing else, like in  "never could be". So it doesn't really make sense talking about it. To whom? "Others"? 
• The consciousness of the mind-stream of other beings can be directly intuited/felt/realized to be ones own empty consciousness at certain levels of Awakening. But Impersonal, Totally Empty Concsiousness.
  • It "wouldn't work" any different way, it has to be empty. Technically speaking, "IT" would not be compatible to fit into the perspective/mind-stream/consciousness of another being/perspective if it weren't totally empty. Just Awareness, AWARE, and nothing else. Empty. Impersonal.
    • How could a consciousness with "my" personal properties "fit" into the mindstream of another being. It couldn't. Therefor, Nothingness, totally Empty Impersonal Consciousness, with another mindstream (feelings/thoughts/subtle feelings of being/separateness/....), structurally exactly the same as ones own mindstream, with the same essence - Nothingness. Which is also the same essence of very appearance of the visual field also. All of that can be directly realized.
      • With certain levels of Awakening, one can directly intuit that the separate-self illusion arisings (I-thoughts, I-feelings) in the mindstream of other beings has exactly the same structure than ones own mindstream (and its I-thoughts, I-feelings). One doesn't read the content of thoughts (some do), but directly intuits their structure/process, in the exactly same impersonal consciousness than the essence of ones own mindstream.
        • And that essence of Nothingness/Impersonal Consciousness is also the same essence of EVERY appearance of the world in the visual field.
          • Also, a direct experience in Awakenings, and something that gets constant in Enlightenment (to paraphrase for example the Mahamudra-system): "Crossing Over to Enlightenment happens when every thought/concept/feeling ("internal" arising) and every appearance (world/visual field form) is seen as empty-thought-concept and empty-appearance arisings in Infinite Awareness-Space".
    • And that is what one is: IMPERSONAL Empty Consciousness. Or better "Nothingness", to make sure that nothing is projected onto it, or that its not fully empty. It is literally Nothing, but with the capacity for sentience. And even that isn't always active, see Deep-Sleep. Definitely, it doesn't include separate-self arisings/confusion/illusion arisings "on top". That is "the screen", and its capacity for sentience/awareness/consciousness.

To make it specific: Talking about Solipsism could only make sense from totally empty impersonal Consciousness or Nothingness. And then it is not necessary! (Because it invites more mis-understandings than the clarity it delivers). 

• Talking about Solipsism from any ego/separate self perspective doesn't make sense. And if you are at that empty level of infinite (!) impersonal Consciousness/Nothingness, one without a second, it is redundant and totally unnecessary to talk even about Solipsism.

>As long as there is an identification process, there is delusion

Yes, exactly. And any form of Solipsism applied to the level of the delusion/relative/ego/separate-self level only can increase narcissm or (separate-)self-grandiosity, which is the No.1 building block of the separate self, the most seductive one, the most dangerous delusion mechanism of Maya. One of the very last things to go. (And then one can guess what makes Solipsism so attractive for egos/separate selfs? Well, one can go ahead confusing the little separate self/ego with the full glory of God/Kosmos/Reality, and feel veeeery important, and boast around with absolute claims.)

That (the danger described above, and other dangers) is why by the way in Tibetan Buddhism (and practically all spiritual traditions) Realized Ones normally NEVER speak about their attainments, and at least tend to downplay them, state them smaller, because that tends to boost ones self-importance. And that is not good, neither before or after Enlightenment. Brings bad Karma, not as happy-as-can-be-life. And the same holds also for the not-realized or not stable realized ones. Not publicly announcing ones realization has got other negative effects (like not much examples, or making it appeat to be nearly impossible to reach), but saves oneself (and others) in being more on the "humble side") from the burden of self-importance/self-grandiosity. So its a balance, see one of my last posts with the Video of Ken Wilber.

• And second factor: Even if you know Absolute Reality and are enlightened, that does in no way mean that ones relative life automatically already expresses the potential that this realization opens up in terms of compassion, ethical living, and embodying the truth. It provides the potential to do so, and also tends to unfold this way. But it is not assured. Ken Wilbers "Wake Up, Grow Up, Show Up". 
  • Over the long-term, when Enlightenment becomes more common, only the "Wake Up, Grow Up, Show Up" stable and mature versions of it will find group-approval/consensus. Because only that version of it is "cool", the other versions are "less than cool", or "pretty uncool". 

 

And if with Solipsism one can boost the importance/self-importance/grandiosity to hilarious proportions,

• confusing ego/separate self with Reality/God, and claiming stuff that is just not appropriate to be claimed for any separate self/any perspective in the Great Net of Indra/Reality/any being,
• but only for God proper (Nothingness, Impersonal totally empty Infinite Consciousness), 

well, then one has exchanged the former separate self with a new vastly-blown-up"God"-ego-separate-self, an ego/separate self blown up to cosmic dimensions and self-importance. And then good luck transcending that, and the suffering that goes along necessarily as with any separate-self identity. 

 

The big big risk that at least yours truly can see on this forum:

• Exactly that tends (not at every case, depends probably on the baseline-"blessing"/Karma of narcissm and self-grandiosity already in place) to happen with frequent usage of Psychedelics. 95% of the properties of Infinite Reality get revealed (the relative side, like ones identity with the whole universe (this Infinite Void-Universe, Buddha-Field, or "God" if you are so inclinded to call it that way), but not the fully empty/impersonal Absolute side of it, Absolute Impersonal Emptiness or Nothingness/Abyss that can never be seen. (And by the way, as Steven Wolinsky for example writes based on his Awakenings/visions, there are and infinite Number of Infinite Other Void-Universes/Buddha-Fields just like ours, each with a God/Buddha at its center running the "show", while being it. And none of that is the Absolute, its all relative stuff, manifestation. Not the absolute empty Abyss of Nothingness.... I remember a video somebody once maid about an "Infinity of Gods", sovereign just like oneself.... ").
  • At least not completely, because the Psychedelics don't kill the last remnants/rest of the last subtle separate-self arisings (mainly "Individuality", or a very subtle hard to spot feeling of still being there as anything at all, or an Awareness "of" Emptiness/Nothingness/Nonduality/whatever. Still an Awarness "of"...).
  • And, to make it even more seductive or dangerous: One is not aware what this last "individuality", or "Awareness of ..."  is, or that that is still happy and busy and active, destroying ones crossing over to Complete Realization, making one still suffer. If one would understand these last remnancts of Illusion, of "Individuality", one would instantly wake up and stay that way. Knowing what one really is. If Realization of ones Identity with the Absolute Infinite Reality/Nothingness ends after the trip, maybe there was still something active blocking the full Realization throughout?

Little remark, included after a waaay to long rambling: If somebody has truly read until here, and thinks all of this post is all BS, please quote the number 147, to show that one has actually read most of that dry and boring musings of yours truly until here... ( :  . Thank you, very kind.

Well, nothing of what I have written will proove anything for those persons having fallen heavily for that trap.

• especially those who do it just by thinking and watching videos, and boosting their narcissm already with that tremendously, and didn't even walk the Psychedelic path properly, but are parotting concepts & dogma from someone else.
  • In my humble opinion, it doesn't speak for the forum that such an ego-show can happen without more highlighting these obvious mistakes.
  • So for the "all is understood by watching the vids, but never did a trip"-fraction: Maybe consider taking one of the harder psychedelics like 5-MeO, have most/95%+ of your ego/separate self handed on a platter to you, and then come back with maybe a little bit more existential humility and awe in the face of Infinite Consciousness/Reality, and the way it can easily kill 95% of you with a little chemical and smile while doing so.
• Luckily, normally their tone of writing, loaded with self-grandiosity, narcissm, and writing style that generally is not "so filled" with bliss/love/compassion as one would normally expect of Divinity/Absolute/God-Realization, showing for every reader with at least some form of working spiritual compass in the heart, that their suffering probably has not ended, and they are peddling conceptual ideas and not actual realization.
  • and if they "camouflage" their writings a bit more towards the "humble and loving/compassion side", at least it gets more pleasant and softer to read 

And as always, Bon Vovage for "everybody"! 

Selling Water by the River

 

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Water by the River

[Razard86]

4 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

I see a lot of people falling into this trap, and I myself fell to it in the past.

Solipsism, yes. But from the point of view of God (which is not a point of view, obviously, but using that word as a means to understand ourselves).

Not from the point of view of the ego.

The problem is that you guys keep wanting to grasp this stuff while maintaining an ego-consciousness and a feeling of PERSONALITY and REFERENCE in your current direct experience. Trying to grasp the 'teaching' with this will inevitably guide you to delusion. 

There is no personal experience or reference point of view in consciousness. Solipsism as a 'personal truth' can not exist because you as a human don't exist, you are not a body and you are not a psychological process.

As long as you are identified with any personal view or conclusion, you will not get it. No matter how many times 'you awake', what matters is NOW, what you 'think' you are now. As long as there is an identification process, there is delusion. As long as there is a sense of you existing within something (like a body), there is a delusion. The end.

Work on the delusion, less on trying to understand. Understanding is not awakening.

1. You are not awake. You will never dissolve the ego because the ego cannot be seperated from the dream. YOUR HUMAN EGO IS THE SAME AS YOUR HUMAN LIFE!! This is the first evidence I know when a person is full of it and has never awakened!

2. If you do not understand what I said above, YOU WILL CHASE YOUR TAIL!!! This is why I said human spirituality is bullshit, because when I awoke I realized the flaws they have when they talk to you. Your ego is your filter! Without an ego YOU LITERALLY CANNOT EXPERIENCE THIS THING CALLED LIFE!!! Your ego is MORE than just your memories, your ego is DUALITY ITSELF!!! No ego, NO DUALITY!!! This means you can't walk, talk, think, drink water, etc.

3. So again if you or anyone says this delusional crap and keep trying to transcend the very thing that is the GIFT OF DUALITY then all you are doing is fooling yourself, fooling others and you are preventing yourself AND THEM from fully awakening. This is why unless you awaken YOU SHOULD NOT BE TEACHING!!! You are actually doing a disservice and confusing yourself and other people!!! This is why I rail against false teachers such as yourself because you are delusional and create mass confusion.

P.S. From the point of view of the Ego IT IS SOLIPSISTIC. Have you ever experienced freezing time and walking around a FROZEN WORLD? NO!!! Because you never awoke. THERE IS ONLY YOU!!! NOBODY ELSE. While your ego is just as imaginary as everybody else, the avatar that God chooses to use is both the Absolute and the Relative. When you awaken to the fact that your relative perspective is also the ABSOLUTE you realize that the human avatar you are using is the ONLY REAL avatar. Why? Because you as God are currently experiencing THAT POINT OF VIEW. 

Your point of view is the absolute, it is only relative because you create other things for that avatar to experience! If right now you entered a void and only conjured up a human body to float in that void then that human body has nothing to compare or relate itself too. But the moment you put a ground, and put things on that ground that perspective because relative because it can be compared to things that have distinct features. The void has no such features so if you only conjure up a human body in the void the human body will have no height, no weight, and it won't even take up space. 

But because you haven't awoken you don't even understand what is being communicated because your drive to awaken is not strong enough. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Razard86

[Javfly33]

12 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

1. You are not awake. You will never dissolve the ego because the ego cannot be seperated from the dream. YOUR HUMAN EGO IS THE SAME AS YOUR HUMAN LIFE!! This is the first evidence I know when a person is full of it and has never awakened!

2. If you do not understand what I said above, YOU WILL CHASE YOUR TAIL!!! This is why I said human spirituality is bullshit, because when I awoke I realized the flaws they have when they talk to you. Your ego is your filter! Without an ego YOU LITERALLY CANNOT EXPERIENCE THIS THING CALLED LIFE!!! Your ego is MORE than just your memories, your ego is DUALITY ITSELF!!! No ego, NO DUALITY!!! This means you can't walk, talk, think, drink water, etc.

3. So again if you or anyone says this delusional crap and keep trying to transcend the very thing that is the GIFT OF DUALITY then all you are doing is fooling yourself, fooling others and you are preventing yourself AND THEM from fully awakening. This is why unless you awaken YOU SHOULD NOT BE TEACHING!!! You are actually doing a disservice and confusing yourself and other people!!! This is why I rail against false teachers such as yourself because you are delusional and create mass confusion.

P.S. From the point of view of the Ego IT IS SOLIPSISTIC. Have you ever experienced freezing time and walking around a FROZEN WORLD? NO!!! Because you never awoke. THERE IS ONLY YOU!!! NOBODY ELSE. While your ego is just as imaginary as everybody else, the avatar that God chooses to use is both the Absolute and the Relative. When you awaken to the fact that your relative perspective is also the ABSOLUTE you realize that the human avatar you are using is the ONLY REAL avatar. Why? Because you as God are currently experiencing THAT POINT OF VIEW. 

Your point of view is the absolute, it is only relative because you create other things for that avatar to experience! If right now you entered a void and only conjured up a human body to float in that void then that human body has nothing to compare or relate itself too. But the moment you put a ground, and put things on that ground that perspective because relative because it can be compared to things that have distinct features. The void has no such features so if you only conjure up a human body in the void the human body will have no height, no weight, and it won't even take up space. 

But because you haven't awoken you don't even understand what is being communicated because your drive to awaken is not strong enough. 

And this ladies and gentlemen, is how someone brainwashed by Leo guras teaching sounds like.

 

[Someone here]

@Razard86 grow the fuck up . Solipsism is the delusion. Solipsism Is for lonely incels who fuck nobody.

Also get a life and take a fucking vacation from this forum. 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

And this ladies and gentlemen, is how someone brainwashed by Leo guras teaching sounds like.

 

???

[Yimpa]

6 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

As long as there is an identification process, there is delusion. As long as there is a sense of you existing within something (like a body), there is a delusion. The end.

Your mind is too inflexible. 

[Water by the River]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_7:16

... just kidding 

Leos Teachings hold a lot of potential, and my guess is that soon as they evolve over the Solipsistic/Infinity of Gods - phase (please excuse my humble opinion), and no longer confuse a not-so-empty God-(separate)-self with the Absolute Emptiness of the Absolute/Reality, or the Absolute Empty Abyss of Nothingness of Impersonal Consciousness, the "fruits" (Matthew 7:16) will also be marvelous.

I guess there is quite a high chance that that will happen. He is smart and diligent, and has published some awesome videos on bias and self-deception and the like, not to speak of all the other videos which contain really some great stuff. But in this Lila nothing is predetermined or certain. So, as always: Enjoy the show, and Bon voyage!

As soon as every little subtle remaining

• -separate-self-arising/lense/bias/awareness of emptiness/awareness of being/awareness of being God or Reality or Alien or whatever, anything at all/awareness of being anything- 

is transcended/seen&let go/subject made object/ burned and is no longer colouring the experience of Infinite Reality or True Identity of Impersonal Infinite Consciousness, then "burned by the everburning flame of ones own primordial nature —all ego-consciousness, all delusive feelings and thoughts and perceptions will perish with your ego-root and the true source of your Self-nature will appear. You will feel resurrected, all sickness having completely vanished, and will experience genuine peace and joy. You will be entirely free." - first part yours truly, second part in quotation marks by Bassui (also below).

I wish him exactly this  genuine peace and joy permanently in daily life that comes along the permanent realization/waking up. Then one is the whole Enchilada, watching itself, being absolutely Nothing(ness)..... and Nothingness never has a problem, only can contain them... moving around in itself like mosquitoes, but then of the slow flying version, easy to splat/transcend/cutoff. Sorry, probably not a Boddhisattva-style metaphor.  More on the mosquitoes see below:

So, it seems, until then: With every heroic pioneering effort, there is certain danger. Hic sunt dracones!

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hic_sunt_dracones

Water by the River

 

PS: The full quote, from Three Pillars of Zen, Kapleau:

Bassui: If you push forward with your last ounce of strength at the very point where the path of your thinking has been blocked, and then, completely stymied, leap with hands high in the air into the tremendous abyss of fire confronting you—into the ever-burning flame of your own primordial nature—all ego-consciousness, all delusive feelings and thoughts and perceptions will perish with your ego-root and the true source of your Self-nature will appear. You will feel resurrected, all sickness having completely vanished, and will experience genuine peace and joy. You will be entirely free.

For the first time you will realize that walking on water is like walking on ground and walking on ground like walking on water; that all day long there is speaking, yet no word is ever spoken; that throughout the day there is walking, yet no step is ever taken; that while the clouds are rising over the southern mountains their rain is falling over the northern range; that when the lecture gong is struck in China the lecture begins in Korea; that sitting alone in a ten-foot-square room you meet all the Buddhas of the ten quarters; that without seeing a word you read the more than seven thousand volumes of the sutras; that though you acquire all the merits and virtues of good actions, yet in fact there are none.

 

PSPS: The rest of the Mosquito metaphor:

.... And by the way, what one thinks what one is if one thinks oneself to be still anything at all: These are the mosquitos/separate-self-arisings (I-thoughts and I-feelings)/lenses/localizations, buzzing around in True You (the Totality), endlessly annoying, but making the hell of a show....  

• If they are too fast emerging/moving for oneself to easily squat them all at ones own convinience (genereally, keep the useful ones (the functional character) buzzing, squat the rest, the ones with "suffering" painted on them), then there is meditation/transcedence work to do.
• The meditation/Transcedence gets the bliss flowing by the way, which is like some smoke that slows down the moskitos, makes them easy to squat/transcend.

  

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

And this ladies and gentlemen, is how someone brainwashed by Leo guras teaching sounds like.

 

And this ladies and gentleman is someone who has never awoken and is delusional as all hell because he couldn't counter anything I said ever. I can easily deconstruct anything he says and he knows it. But try me, I dare you. I'll show your ignorance for the entire forum to see. And it will be easy. What you don't realize is you are so got damn delusional you are basically blind. 

Ego is the human identity. What is identity. Identity is action. What is identity, identity is symbols, What is identity identity is explanation.

Notice how above you performed an action, you used symbols and you used an explanation. So what does that mean? It means....you will always have your human ego. It is not going anywhere. Even when your life ENDS its not going anywhere because destination DOES NOT EXIST. God is a MIND. As long as GOD does not forget a human life, that human life exists forever in the mind of God!!! So where is the ego going to go?

Tell me? Where is it going? Why do you think they say every moment is eternal? Why do you think Leo said your hands has existed forever? Because there is no where for your hands to go!!! When you are in the void, if you WANT you can conjure up your human body!!! What I just said, people have also experienced on NDE's!!! Why? Because your body is not limited by time or space it only presently APPEARS like it does.

You don't know anything you are a false teacher who runs around pretending to know stuff. This is arrogance, to speak about what you don't know.

This guy right here had a legit awakening. And guess what? He got to see his body floating in an empty void. What happened to him is he FORGOT his human life, but then guess what? He also REMEMBERED IT. So the ego will never disappear because even when it isn't there, it's there. Why? Because God is that which contains all potentialities so nothing can be lost, or even obtained. It just IS. So death and even life can be said to have never existed based on the human concept and definition of what they call life. 

But again...this is too advanced for you...cause you are ASLEEP. I'm only heavy handed on you because you have all this unfounded confidence= arrogance. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Razard86

[UnbornTao]

Let's leave the discussion open without personal attacks.

[Water by the River]

Javyfly33: As long as there is an identification process, there is delusion. As long as there is a sense of you existing within something (like a body), there is a delusion. The end.

1 minute ago, Yimpa said:

Your mind is too inflexible. 

@Yimpa, how about stating any reasons for your statements? Or logical conclusions?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_consequence

Javfly33 describes in his statement exactly the fundamental process of waking up. If you challenge the central deep structural process of every major spiritual traditions and system, maybe have the courtesy of giving at least some explanatory statements? Like in:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_reasoning

Yours truly 

Water by the River

 

[Yimpa]

This is one of the reasons this forum is potent. You can really appreciate the different states of consciousness at work in perfect synchronicity. 

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, UnbornTao said:

Let's leave the discussion open without personal attacks.

This guy gets on my nerves. 

It’s unusual for someone to have enough insight to realize that they’re delusional while they’re actually delusional.

Delusions are one of the trickiest symptoms of mental illness for precisely that reason: By their very nature, people who have delusions will be impossible to convince that their delusion is false, no matter the clarity of the evidence or the quality of the logic.

He literally do it on every thread.all day every day . This nonsense had to stop .

[Water by the River]

 

7 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Javyfly33: As long as there is an identification process, there is delusion. As long as there is a sense of you existing within something (like a body), there is a delusion. The end.

Yimpa: Your mind is too inflexible. 

@Yimpa, how about stating any reasons for your statements? Or logical conclusions?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_consequence

Javfly33 describes in his statement exactly the fundamental process of waking up. If you challenge the central deep structural process of every major spiritual traditions and system, maybe have the courtesy of giving at least some explanatory statements? Like in:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_reasoning

Yours truly 

Water by the River

 

 

3 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

This is one of the reasons this forum is potent. You can really appreciate the different states of consciousness at work in perfect synchronicity. 

> @Yimpa, how about stating any reasons for your statements? Or logical conclusions?

Not today, darling.... 

all the best 

Water by the River

[Yimpa]

Solipsism discussions are controversial precisely because you’re too attached to your identity. 

It’s possible to become directly conscious of all identities being you… if consciousness is elevated sufficiently. 

[Water by the River]

7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

This guy gets on my nerves. 

An opportunity to work on ones Karma by staying calm.

Sorry, just kidding 

But so far, I rejoice in being mainly ignored with my posts and counterarguments I posted on the topics of Solipsism and the like 

Selling Water by the River

[Yimpa]

ignorance is bliss.

[Arthogaan]

There is only YOU.

If you are lost in the ego then Ego-flavoured reality is all there is.

If you are enlightened then God is all there is.

 

But either way there is only THIS, only one POV.

[Razard86]

Just now, Arthogaan said:

There is only YOU.

If you are lost in the ego then Ego-flavoured reality is all there is.

If you are enlightened then God is all there is.

 

But either way there is only THIS, only one POV.

I'm glad you know the truth. Good to see a real truth lover here. You are one of few.

[Arthogaan]

Just now, Razard86 said:

I'm glad you know the truth. Good to see a real truth lover here. You are one of few.

Aww stop it you