Enlightenment is for Everyone

[AlexNonymous6]

Hi all! As you can tell, I am new to this forum and grateful to be here. An abridged version of my story: I underwent enlightenment back in 2018 before I knew what enlightenment was. This came when I was in a severe depression and listened to "The Power of Now" by Eckhardt Tolle. "I" (being my ego) "died" swiftly. If it weren't for that book, I don't know if "I'd" be alive today. Because Eckhardt does such a wonderful job at explaining what ego is and what enlightenment is, it didn't take me long to figure out what had happened to me. I spent months in an enlightened state. I was truly free for the first time in my life. I tried telling everyone that I knew about "The Power of Now", but it turns out the majority of people do not A) understand enlightenment or B) know/care what it is. This is mainly because people view our current shared reality as true reality. Meaning people tend to agree that everyone is a separate individual rather than part of one collective consciousness. I eventually developed mania and psychosis where I believed the radio and TV were sending me messages on how to get to global enlightenment (or world peace). After about 8 months I crashed again into a deep depression. I went back (for lack of a better way of saying it) to identifying as myself (my name, my life situation, etc). A similar occurrence happened recently in 2022. I went through a "re-enlightenment" which again eventually progressed into psychosis. I made it out again and here I am, some months later, finally figuring out what happened to me during both instances.

My main goal now is to help move our world into global enlightenment. There's no time like the now, since that't the only moment that's ever existed. My question now is "how?". A few friends have said that I should write a book. But as it turns out, if I wrote a book, it would in essence be the same thing as "The Power of Now" or "A New Earth". My backstory is not of importance. The important thing is the message, not my egoic tale. I could write a book about that, but I really have no desire to. What's important is that we share a collective consciousness and that world peace is possible. This message is so incredibly hard to share (as our language does not do an adequate job). The perpetuation of inadequate language, measurable time, and body identification keep us in a world where suffering will inevitably continue to exist. I was able to write up a 6 page summary to try and communicate this message better, but that's not going to do much in way of getting published. I tried writing up a book, but I find myself thinking again and again: This is already a book! 

Has anyone ever gone through a significant ego death that landed them in a similar situation? And does anyone else have the same goal as global enlightenment? I know it's possible, but the question of how remains. We are on a planet of nearly 8 billion people. Yikes! I can't explain this to my friends, family, or anybody that I know, let alone strangers. I've tried reddit, but that didn't go anywhere. I just want to be in a place where the conversation doesn't end. I'm living a double life of my egoic self (mother, wife, sister, friend, nurse) and my spiritual life (one with consciousness). The thing is... everyone is one with consciousness. The only difference is my awareness of it. Enlightenment should be for everyone to experience, not just the Buddah, Jesus, you, and me. And if all goes well, everyone will have their own story of enlightenment.

I am just a person trying to figure this life out. The problem is my life means not much without it being a part of everyone on this earth. We are all one! Every rock, tree, and creature. The only difference is our egoic lives which is all an illusion anyways. My life up to this point has been to stop suicide, but ending human suffering entails that as well. If you don't believe that global enlightenment is possible, I respect that, but I am more interested in hearing from those who share it as a goal. What do we do to cut through the years and years of not just individual ego (which is hard enough), but also the collective ego of humanity? Trying to teach someone how to become enlightened is like trying to make someone unlearn something. "Unlearn your identity, complete sense of self, and everything you know". Oh how I wish it were that easy. In the context of the universe, we (humans) just got here. It would be nice if we could figure this out and get to "A New Earth".

I hope this post makes any sense at all to someone. I've been trying for months to try and communicate what I'm trying to say, and boy is it hard! I want to provide just enough information to make it make sense. Communication is difficult. I'm learning how to not use phrases like "death is an illusion", "we are immortal", etc. because, as you can imagine, these things sound like I'm "Going crazy". Crazy is just relative is what I'm learning more and more every day.

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

Welcome to our humble abode. If I may be so bold as to propose an amendment of your topic title: "Enlightenment is for Everyone... who has access to drugs." Gotta stay true to the actualized.org spirit, right?

Just (half) kidding.

Have you thought about starting a Youtube channel? This might be a good way to test the waters and play around with different ways to get the message across without putting too much pressure on yourself ('cause at first nobody is going to watch your videos anyway - just keeping it real, lol - and if you decide that a video didn't turn out that great, you can always delete it and give it another shot). And little by little, you'll find your own voice, probably gain some traction and followers and who knows, perhaps in a couple of years you'll make a living teaching this stuff full time, Anna Brown style.

How does that sound?

Edited May 11, 2023 by Bazooka Jesus

[Moksha]

Welcome to the forum! My recommendation is to engage here for awhile, and see where it leads. There is remarkable diversity in this community, and you will undoubtedly find people who can relate to your journey.

It's not uncommon when someone has an awakening experience to feel the desire to save the world. As you've found, this is rather unrealistic 

Awakening only happens when the absolute is ready to awaken within its form. No amount of teaching will make any difference until the person is ready to hear.

The most powerful tool for helping others is learning to deepen the awareness within yourself. You can do this without saying a word, and the light of the absolute will take care of the teaching.

[NoSelfSelf]

Enlightment cant be for anyone its for selected few...

[Breakingthewall]

The number 1 problem of this work is to think that you are fully awake when you are 1% awake. You don't even realize what it means to be awake, how far you can go and how asleep you are, until you have broken many limits in your mind. 

[Darodos]

Well man, Im sorry to be the one to deliver the message, but I have to crack some news to you:

You may have experienced some very profound and liberating awakenings, but don't you think you are free yet. Don't think that you are enlightened yet. You have just scratched the very surface of the Truth! I can really relate to your story, a couple of years back I was very similar. Keep going deeper, and eventually you will also be free of the binding chains that you are right now unaware of, the same as you have been unaware of your ego-chains before you have experienced your awakenings. I do not want to devalue your experiences in any way. You have made some very important steps, but those have only been the very first ones of a very long journey. Don't stop there. Keep digging and going deeper. 

To give you some direction for you to consider, I tell you this:

Ask yourself - WHY do YOU want to bring forth this global enlightenment? Why is it important for you? Really take this question seriously. Go to the root of your WHY. WHY do you CARE? Is it really out of compassion? Is it unconditional love for all beings that is pouring out of your heart, and thus wanting to bless all of your fellow humans with the experience of enlightenment? If you go deep enough, you will figure out that this is not the case. If you take a good look at yourself, and if you are really honest with yourself, you will figure out quickly that your ambitions actually roots from subconscious pain and suffering you feel inside. You feel a restlessness, an uneasiness, you feel conflicted in yourself, you feel anger, sadness, fear, pain... and furthermore, you project the end of your own suffering, your personal salvation onto the possibility of you helping to bring forth global enlightenment. I have lived for several years in the illusion, that if I teach about enlightenment and "help the world" in that way, that eventually I may be free from my own inner pain. Don't repeat my mistake. Be smart.

Think about it this way:

Your body, your mind, your emotional system are a very very complex and sophisticated machine. Throughout your whole life up to this point, you have experienced pain and suffering coming your way from outside, which have progressively damaged you more and more as you lived your life. To protect yourself from further damage, you have created the ego, like a wall around you. But this wall was not only protecting you, but also locking you in a cage. Now you have started to see through the ego, and started to dismantle this wall. But think about it - you have been under the influence of very damaging influences for many years and decades. Do you think, this highly complex mechanism that your physical self is becomes a clean slate, just because you have recognized oneness? No, obviously not. Your psyche, your mind, your emotional system, they are all deeply damaged, and require a lot of healing for you to function properly as a human. 

If you want to create global enlightenment, start there. Before you try to teach anybody or start a movement or whatever, start by first creating perfect peace and health in yourself. If you try to skip that step, you will keep looping around between mania and depression.

[Water by the River]

On 11.5.2023 at 11:44 PM, Breakingthewall said:

The number 1 problem of this work is to think that you are fully awake when you are 1% awake. You don't even realize what it means to be awake, how far you can go and how asleep you are, until you have broken many limits in your mind. 

Very True.

And there is a nice and pretty fool-proof (literally ) indicator if one really rests in ones own True Being, is  enlightened on a stable basis, or if the separate self arisings are still well and alive:

• If you still suffer regularly, you resist the present moment manifested in your True Being/Reality.
• To be more precise: The separate self arisings in the True You are the resisting/suffering. So there are still some elements not transcended, your deep identity is not Reality itself then, because you (separate self arisings) want to have the True You/Reality different than it appears in this moment when you suffer.

In this forum exists a large tendency to talk this simple mechanism away, because it is the blind spot (and contradiction in itself) of not so enlightened separate selves/egos thinking they are God. 

• And admitting this to be the case, it would stop the Ego/Separate Self from thinking it is God/Absolute and its preaching from "upon high" with a hilarious ego/narcissm-show of truly god-sized dimension, which apparently feels oh so nice for some and starting lecturing. 
• But hey, the show seen here sometimes really reminds of prime time comedy...  And as written above, the mechanism luckily literally is fool-proof. No one gets left behind in Maya . Sorry, pardon my french.

My recommendation would be, since you mention psychosis and depression: Get your life in order (psychological health, financial security/education/job, familiy & friends & relationships, a harmonious life on the relative level), until depression, psychosis and conflict in general is gone in your life as much as possible, and a happy & healthy as can be life on a relative level is achieved. And combining that growing up on all levels, and waking up with some kind of meditation practice would be real serious and transforming spiritual practice, ending up if possible in a stable resting in your True Being itself. Then you can show up in the world. Ken Wilbers grow up, wake up, show up.

Then live the bliss of your true being on a stable basis for 5 years or so. And then, start thinking about how you can help so called "others". Maybe recheck if there are "others" at all.... Because if you try to "help/change" "others" from a position halfway up the mountain, that project is just one of the endless projects of the separate self to make the world conform to its own ideas and visions, and to ease its own suffering. What the outcome of these good intentions can be sometimes, look around in the world....

On 11.5.2023 at 11:59 PM, Darodos said:

If you want to create global enlightenment, start there. Before you try to teach anybody or start a movement or whatever, start by first creating perfect peace and health in yourself. If you try to skip that step, you will keep looping around between mania and depression.

exactly.

Bon voyage! 

Water by the River

Edited May 13, 2023 by Water by the River

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

My recommendation would be, since you mention psychosis and depression: Get your life in order (psychological health, financial security/education/job, familiy & friends & relationships, a harmonious life on the relative level),

I never mentioned psychosis or depression, have a fairly solid mind, but I don't agree with that idea that before starting to delve into spirituality you have to be relatively successful. Obviously, I try my best to be successful relative and the cards I've been dealt aren't bad. a very dysfunctional family history but I realized it quickly, and from very early on I started working on it, but imagine that I am chronically ill, a slave on a cotton plantation or a homosexual in Iran. Would spirituality be banned for me? I don't think so. Real spirituality is trascendence.  

 

and another thing in which I think you are wrong is to think that if there is suffering you are not on the right path. there will always be suffering as long as you are human. Eastern spirituality teaches acceptance and fatalism, but that is just acceptance and fatalism. emptying the mind is nothing more than emptying the mind. True spirituality is opening yourself to the infinite. infinity is absolute joy to exist, but the moment you close yourself to infinity for a while, you will suffer, and you can't be open full time. If your business goes bad, you will suffer, if they tell you that you have cancer, you are sentenced to life imprisonment, etc., you will suffer. and? It's just suffering, part of life 

What I completely agree with is the tendency here to preach when you haven't scratched the surface yet, but if you haven't scratched the surface, you don't know you're on the surface.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Razard86]

On 5/11/2023 at 5:59 PM, Darodos said:

Well man, Im sorry to be the one to deliver the message, but I have to crack some news to you:

You may have experienced some very profound and liberating awakenings, but don't you think you are free yet. Don't think that you are enlightened yet. You have just scratched the very surface of the Truth! I can really relate to your story, a couple of years back I was very similar. Keep going deeper, and eventually you will also be free of the binding chains that you are right now unaware of, the same as you have been unaware of your ego-chains before you have experienced your awakenings. I do not want to devalue your experiences in any way. You have made some very important steps, but those have only been the very first ones of a very long journey. Don't stop there. Keep digging and going deeper. 

To give you some direction for you to consider, I tell you this:

Ask yourself - WHY do YOU want to bring forth this global enlightenment? Why is it important for you? Really take this question seriously. Go to the root of your WHY. WHY do you CARE? Is it really out of compassion? Is it unconditional love for all beings that is pouring out of your heart, and thus wanting to bless all of your fellow humans with the experience of enlightenment? If you go deep enough, you will figure out that this is not the case. If you take a good look at yourself, and if you are really honest with yourself, you will figure out quickly that your ambitions actually roots from subconscious pain and suffering you feel inside. You feel a restlessness, an uneasiness, you feel conflicted in yourself, you feel anger, sadness, fear, pain... and furthermore, you project the end of your own suffering, your personal salvation onto the possibility of you helping to bring forth global enlightenment. I have lived for several years in the illusion, that if I teach about enlightenment and "help the world" in that way, that eventually I may be free from my own inner pain. Don't repeat my mistake. Be smart.

Think about it this way:

Your body, your mind, your emotional system are a very very complex and sophisticated machine. Throughout your whole life up to this point, you have experienced pain and suffering coming your way from outside, which have progressively damaged you more and more as you lived your life. To protect yourself from further damage, you have created the ego, like a wall around you. But this wall was not only protecting you, but also locking you in a cage. Now you have started to see through the ego, and started to dismantle this wall. But think about it - you have been under the influence of very damaging influences for many years and decades. Do you think, this highly complex mechanism that your physical self is becomes a clean slate, just because you have recognized oneness? No, obviously not. Your psyche, your mind, your emotional system, they are all deeply damaged, and require a lot of healing for you to function properly as a human. 

If you want to create global enlightenment, start there. Before you try to teach anybody or start a movement or whatever, start by first creating perfect peace and health in yourself. If you try to skip that step, you will keep looping around between mania and depression.

Great post!! There is much maturity in your writing. Also I am going to make certain assertions in this post. I see many people talk about ego this, oh I killed my ego and I am going to explain how this too is delusion in spirituality circles and how pretty much all Spiritual Teachers who use these phrases are confusing you.

So what is ego? Ego is your identity as the character in what you call your life. This identity is all encompassing. This involves your body, your memories, and what languages you communicate in. As a result for you to TRULY shed your ego, EVERYTHING associated with it would have to disappear. That's right EVERYTHING. This means even your ability to communicate in English would have to disappear because God doesn't need English. If you still have memories of your human life, then you still have ego. If you still are able to think using your birth language then you still have ego. 

Next....there is nothing wrong with the ego. What most Spiritual Teachers like to do is bring up all the negative fear based aspects and call that ego, and point to all the positive non fear based expressions and call that NOT ego and point to it as the true self. I truly believe this to be an error. Your ego is the ENTIRE emotional expression both the fear based and the non fear based expression. This is why every teaching is RELATIVE. The purpose of focusing on the fear based elements is a result of currently that being humans main obsession with their life. So Spirtuality teachings are focused on releasing you from that framework of separateness/fear. 

But the issue with people who do not understand that everything is relative will result in them going around demonizing the ego, and anything fear and hatred based they will call ego and anything that is compassionate and kind as not being ego. This is a mistake. Ego=expression. So all expressions directed towards anything is ego. In fact your entire visual field, audible field, thought field, emotional field, physical sensation field, is EGO. That's the same as saying your entire life/dream is EGO. Experience is EGO. Once you can understand what I am saying....then you can escape the trap many people fall into in Spirituality. As long as you are in the Dream of a human life you will have ego. Don't fool yourself LOL.

[Water by the River]

26 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I never mentioned psychosis or depression, have a fairly solid mind, but I don't agree with that idea that before starting to delve into spirituality you have to be relatively successful.

Sorry, that wasn't clearly written from my side.  That statement, and actually my whole post referred to AlexNonyamous6 statement/post (the parts quoted below). My post didn't mainly refer to your post. I just agreed with what you have written ("very true").

On 11.5.2023 at 10:19 PM, AlexNonymous6 said:

I eventually developed mania and psychosis where I believed the radio and TV were sending me messages on how to get to global enlightenment (or world peace). After about 8 months I crashed again into a deep depression.

 

I think we agree that having some basic in normal relative in place can be helpful for the further path. One shouldn't wait starting the spiritual path until then, but maybe "saving the world" can wait a little bit until ones own life is balanced&healthy. 

The definition of suffering I use is "psychological suffering, OR resistance to what is", not for example bodily pain (and even with that, you can have bodily pain as raw sensation, flowing through you, with no psychological resistance added to it). And with that definition, if one constantly rests in ones True Nature, suffering can indeed be overcome. Because if one rests in One True Nature (Reality itself), its rather hard to have the "autoimmune disorder" of rejecting certain aspects of your own True Self, and creating duality while doing so.

Ones True Nature is the source of all bliss and peace.

• The experiences that the separate self strives for temporarily relieve the suffering that the separates self arising-structures cause/consist of on a regularly basis. At least my experience. But the fulfillment of these experiences doesn't create the bliss, but cause temporarily the stopping/cutting off that the separate self does to that flow of bliss. 
  • That by the way becomes pretty clear when one can literally shut off the self-contraction in ones head, when the localization and contraction (sensations normally behind the eyes) there are lost.  
  • Before I learned to do that with meditation (by the way, mainly in daily life, off the pillow. But starting on the pillow for quite a while), I became aware how sometimes before fully waking up the contraction in the head is not there yet, and then while waking up from slumbering "kicks in", but I couldn't reverse it back then. Maybe you know that experience.  After a lot of meditation that became possible.
    • It feels like you can literally switch off the separate self when it kicks in with some kind of unpleasant contractions/localizations/sensations in the head (plus of course the usual I-thought blabla and some I-feelings, and other unpleasant emotions/suffering coming with it), and get the bliss flowing doing that cutting off/Trekchö-style.
      • and it took me many years getting there, probably can't be done short term. Ken Wilber: States are free, stages are earned (with a lot of work/practice). At least in my case, didn't go too fast... Probably big ego-case needed to be chopped away slowly 

The statements above are in line with all spiritual traditions on Enlightenment which I am aware of.

Ken Wilber once wrote that it can be made from peak experience to plateau to permanent. Once one achieves making certain states stable as a plateau, one gets an idea how it all can work shutting off the suffering with "on-board-devices", no longer being dependend on external experiences. Then, one continues practicing to make it from plateau to permanent. 

41 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If your business goes bad, you will suffer, if they tell you that you have cancer, you are sentenced to life imprisonment, etc., you will suffer. and? It's just suffering, part of life 

When it gets that bad, I believe it is possible to either stay in the source of bliss, or at least to overcome the shock much faster, depending how solid one is rooted in ones own True Being, the source of all bliss. There are cases like that. And when one knows the mechanism described above, it becomes pretty clear how that does and would work...

48 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

and another thing in which I think you are wrong is to think that if there is suffering you are not on the right path. there will always be suffering as long as you are human. Eastern spirituality teaches acceptance and fatalism, but that is just acceptance and fatalism. emptying the mind is nothing more than emptying the mind. True spirituality is opening yourself to the infinite. infinity is absolute joy to exist, but the moment you close yourself to infinity for a while, you will suffer, and you can't be open full time. If your business goes bad, you will suffer, if they tell you that you have cancer, you are sentenced to life imprisonment, etc., you will suffer. and? It's just suffering, part of life 

To make it more specific: The flow of bliss "using on-board-devices" (efficient meditation opening the Endohuasca-System, something like this https://dmtquest.org/endohuasca-magic/ ) can become so strong that one can stay open in the Infinite, to use your words. And that creates a dynamic between bliss -> opening up nondual-way to the infinite -> more bliss -> more opening up to the infinite and so on that can become so strong that it can stay even through even heavy blows of fate.

>there will always be suffering as long as you are human
Actually, I agree to that. But at the end, you are much more the whole Reality then just a human. A Deep Identity Shift. One actually is the Whole Thing... Then one has a human moving in True Oneself, one is no longer just a human anymore. And then, suffering  can become a background voice, very remote, much more easy to switch off....

I know, words in a forum... But it would be inauthentic from me to not write about that, because it is my own experience. I can only invite and motivate people to go this path. There is too much written about that it is not possible, suffering will persist and so on and so on. It doesn't need to, really doesn't.

It is a bit like the Gateless Gate: One can't see it before one gets access to certain meditative and nondual/non-localized states of meditation in daily life that get the bliss/Endohuasca-system flowing. And then, oh boy, it is truly a miracle. Again and again.

best regards

Selling Water by the River

[Water by the River]

10 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

So what is ego? Ego is your identity as the character in what you call your life. This identity is all encompassing. This involves your body, your memories, and what languages you communicate in. As a result for you to TRULY shed your ego, EVERYTHING associated with it would have to disappear. That's right EVERYTHING. This means even your ability to communicate in English would have to disappear because God doesn't need English. If you still have memories of your human life, then you still have ego. If you still are able to think using your birth language then you still have ego. 

Next....there is nothing wrong with the ego. What most Spiritual Teachers like to do is bring up all the negative fear based aspects and call that ego, and point to all the positive non fear based expressions and call that NOT ego and point to it as the true self. I truly believe this to be an error. Your ego is the ENTIRE emotional expression both the fear based and the non fear based expression. This is why every teaching is RELATIVE. The purpose of focusing on the fear based elements is a result of currently that being humans main obsession with their life. So Spirtuality teachings are focused on releasing you from that framework of separateness/fear. 

But the issue with people who do not understand that everything is relative will result in them going around demonizing the ego, and anything fear and hatred based they will call ego and anything that is compassionate and kind as not being ego. This is a mistake. Ego=expression. So all expressions directed towards anything is ego. In fact your entire visual field, audible field, thought field, emotional field, physical sensation field, is EGO. That's the same as saying your entire life/dream is EGO. Experience is EGO. Once you can understand what I am saying....then you can escape the trap many people fall into in Spirituality. As long as you are in the Dream of a human life you will have ego. Don't fool yourself LOL.

Lets take Ken Wilber take on that, on which I agree:

• The Ego as functional character handling daily life stays.
  • The enlightened ones have strong egos, and left their mark on the world.
  • They knew/know what they really are. Hard to shake that first-hand-knowledge of ones True Identity, so they are not easily scared away.
• The separate-self-arisings/Gestalt/structure: What goes in True Self Realization are the separate-self-arisings, or the exclusive identifying with the character
  • ....even if the separate-self remaining  is its only an empty witness-anything basking in Nonduality, but with some subtle Individuality (=separateness) still intact - The usual psychedelic hang-over separate-self-identity still haunting a not so selfless/empty mindstream).
  • The separate self arisings as "identity" are then replaced by being Reality itself, CONTAINING a hopefully functional character/Ego.
• The separate self is dead after realizing ones True Deep Identity. Literally.
  • If its not dead, its not Full Enlightenment. Why? True Identity=Nothingness, manfesting Reality/Totality and being its essence, nondual and infinite. But nothing specific you can point to. Perceptions perceiving themselves.

The separate self arisings, including one of its main components/building blocks, NARCISSM/self-grandiosity, get killed/transcended/no longer believed/cut off/seen as fake illusion objects moving in oneself, and discarded on that Deep Identity Shift of Full Enlightenment....

• ... Not the functional character (which some also call Ego). One doesn't get stupid and cuts that off, and remains a stumbling nutcase ever after....
• Problem with the term Ego often is: Ego=functional character arisings PLUS separate self arisings. Because our society fuses these two Gestalt-structures as one, because it doesn't know any better and doesn't have much examples to the contrary.
• ... because the separate self arisings (and especially NARCISSM/self-grandiosity) are recognized as being actually one of the largest defense-block against the realization of ones True Identity, Nothingness/Reality.

Bon voyage!

Water by the River

 

[UnbornTao]

Yes, enlightenment is possible for everyone. If we postulate that the only requisite is to be human, given that other humans have done it, you can, too. Whoever says you can't is full of crap.

[Razard86]

21 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Lets take Ken Wilber take on that, on which I agree:

• The Ego as functional character handling daily life stays.
  • The enlightened ones have strong egos, and left their mark on the world.
  • They knew/know what they really are. Hard to shake that first-hand-knowledge of ones True Identity, so they are not easily scared away.
• The separate-self-arisings/Gestalt/structure: What goes in True Self Realization are the separate-self-arisings, or the exclusive identifying with the character
  • ....even if the separate-self remaining  is its only an empty witness-anything basking in Nonduality, but with some subtle Individuality (=separateness) still intact - The usual psychedelic hang-over separate-self-identity still haunting a not so selfless/empty mindstream).
  • The separate self arisings as "identity" are then replaced by being Reality itself, CONTAINING a hopefully functional character/Ego.
• The separate self is dead after realizing ones True Deep Identity. Literally.
  • If its not dead, its not Full Enlightenment. Why? True Identity=Nothingness, manfesting Reality/Totality and being its essence, nondual and infinite. But nothing specific you can point to. Perceptions perceiving themselves.

The separate self arisings, including one of its main components/building blocks, NARCISSM/self-grandiosity, get killed/transcended/no longer believed/cut off/seen as fake illusion objects moving in oneself, and discarded on that Deep Identity Shift of Full Enlightenment....

• ... Not the functional character (which some also call Ego). One doesn't get stupid and cuts that off, and remains a stumbling nutcase ever after....
• Problem with the term Ego often is: Ego=functional character arisings PLUS separate self arisings. Because our society fuses these two Gestalt-structures as one, because it doesn't know any better and doesn't have much examples to the contrary.
• ... because the separate self arisings (and especially NARCISSM/self-grandiosity) are recognized as being actually one of the largest defense-block against the realization of ones True Identity, Nothingness/Reality.

Bon voyage!

Water by the River

 

THERE IS NO SEPERATE SELF!!! That is duality!!! You see? Free yourself from the silly ignorant human teachings!! Ken Wilber is a fool!! All separation is an imaginary construction!!! There is no seperate self!!! All those things you just listed was utter delusion!!! Utter delusion that fools many into NEVER awakening. Ken Wilber is not awake!!! He is a silly human who plays around with awakening like 99.9% of humanity. 

 

HAHAAH seperate self. I dare you to PROVE a seperate self exists!! PROVE IT!!! Let's hear how you describe it!!! You won't be able to prove it!!! In fact the irony is a seperate self is a belief right? Well notice if you spread the belief of transcending a seperate self, you are saying it actually exists!!! This is why you have guys like Tony Parsons who may not be completely awake himself is more awake than people like Ken Wilber because they are teaching duality. 

DUALITY IS AN APPERANCE OF SEPERATENESS! This appearance is IMPERMANENT!!! IT IS A MIRAGE!! It is empty!! It is a shadow!!! I'll tell you how unawake Ken is and majority of humanity is!!! You want some real truth!!! Humans are no different than words on a screen!!! Think of a human as a word walking around. Do you think a word is alive? Do you think a word can suffer? This is why I laugh!!! 

What do you think Jesus meant when he said he was the word made manifest? A word is a symbol!!! You are a symbol!!! All appearances are symbols!! They have no meaning outside of what you CONSTRUCT OR CREATE!!! To create something is TRICKERY, it is DELUSION!!! I can create a character, and a storyline. Is it real? Only if I SAY IT IS!!! Why? Because I AM THE ONLY THING THAT IS REAL!!! So anything that is constructed compared to what constructed it is impermanent, which is to say it is a lie, delusion, illusion.

Ken Wilber is an illusion who cannot accept he is an illusion so he creates delusional concepts called a separate self!!! HAHAHHAHHAH Such nonsense!!!

[Water by the River]

@Razard86

You won: The prize for the most exclamation marks definitely goes to you.

The separate self arisings arise in the mindstream of most sentient beings, like any other arising.  I never said the separate self is a thing. I wrote Gestalt and structure. A process, an arising, flowing in Reality. It is not a thing, but a Gestalt, like everything else. There are no "things" in the whole of Reality, only appearing patterns, with more or less continuity/structure.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gestalt

"A collection of physical, biological, psychological or symbolic elements that creates a whole, unified concept or pattern which is other than the sum of its parts, due to the relationships between the parts (of a character, personality, entity, or being)"

And by the way, you can't point to an Imaginary number, like for example i2 = −1 . Yet, without these concepts and tools (of course also all arisings/Gestalts so to say) pointing to these mathematical objects (that are not material, yet very well have a reality to them), nothing of our modern world in engineering and mathematics could have been created.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_number

 

10 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

A word is a symbol!!! You are a symbol!!! All appearances are symbols!! They have no meaning outside of what you CONSTRUCT OR CREATE!!! To create something is TRICKERY, it is DELUSION!!!

You don't even need to write something like that, that is a performative contradiction. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performative_contradiction

Because the statement itself (words/symbols) claims validity (else you would not write it), while saying every word is a symbol, have no meaning, trickery, "it is delusion".  But doing it using words/symbols, which you claim are delusions anyway. Using that logic, you can justify everything. And the kind of stuff justified by this logic is normally mainly:

But I already know that this won't stop the usage of this kind of flawed logic, but at least the reader can make his own picture about the things explained and justified by this kind of performative contradiction (probably resulting in something of the picture above).

You can read that up for example at Wilber, and many other philosophers, for example Habermas, or Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performative_contradiction

You are confusing

• relative truth (which can be very useful on a relative level, for example a diamond cuts glass, but not the other way round, true on a relative level. Or the concept of the Gestalt of a separate self)
• and absolute truth (everything is an illusion, and all words/pointers occur in Absolute Reality/Totality).

Anticipating an answer with as many exclamation marks, capital letters and HAHAHHAHHAH as possible 

Yours truly & Bon voyage

Water by the River

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

Sorry, that wasn't clearly written from my side.  That statement, and actually my whole post referred to AlexNonyamous6

Ahh ok, ok 

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

When it gets that bad, I believe it is possible to either stay in the source of bliss, or at least to overcome the shock much faster, depending how solid one is rooted in ones own True Being, the source of all bliss. There are cases like that. And when one knows the mechanism described above, it becomes pretty clear how that does and would work...

Agree. I guess it's possible. I can't affirm it because until very recently I have not been able to really break the superficial layer and open myself to reality, and this is not something constant.

 

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

The flow of bliss "using on-board-devices" (efficient meditation opening the Endohuasca-System, something like this https://dmtquest.org/endohuasca-magic/ ) can become so strong that one can stay open in the Infinite, to use your words. And that creates a dynamic between bliss -> opening up nondual-way to the infinite -> more bliss -> more opening up to the infinite and so on that can become so strong that it can stay even through even heavy blows of fate.

Interesting

[Breakingthewall]

54 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

THERE IS NO SEPERATE SELF!!! That is duality!!! You see? Free yourself from the silly ignorant human teachings!! Ken Wilber is a fool!! All separation is an imaginary construction!!!

Well, it seems to be a separate self, and it seems.to be a duality,  which for practical purposes can be translated as if there is duality. reality is constituted in such a way that if you are locked in a cage with a hungry leopard, you will create a very convincing duality between you and the leopard. Ultimately it is unreal, but when the leopard shows its teeth, it will be real. we have to work understanding the mechanisms of this duality and giving it the respect it deserves, not denying it

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

 

 

3 hours ago, Water by the River said:

 Endohuasca-System, something like this https://dmtquest.org/endohuasca-magic/ ) can become so strong

Very interesting. I have to investigate this thoroughly

[Water by the River]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Very interesting. I have to investigate this thoroughly

DMT Quest has made two books and several fascinating videos.

https://dmtquest.org/questions-for-the-lion-tamer-1/

and

It is really fascinating stuff, that can explain a lot of other phenomena in an integral way.

Among other things, they postulate that the Endohuasca-system is triggered by

a) Meditation

https://dmtquest.org/meditation-hypnosis/

Get Gamma-frequency of the brain up, and the endohuasca-system probably starts flowing....

In Ken Wilbers system, subjective states (Upper Left Quadrant) have correlates in the body (Upper Right Quadrant), and vice-versa. Causing positive feedback-loops, increasing lucidity and nonduality, bliss and so on. The transformation of the whole self/identity, in stages, making states permanent.... Principle: States are free, stages are earned. When the mindstream conforms to the requirements of these systems, stabilizing and enlightened mind-stream.

Daniel Brown did a study with his "Pointing out the Great Way" students and a advanced Brainscanner. Result: Gamma-waves boosted to the max....

Maybe helps to take transforming the baseline state via meditation to "trippy"-levels more serious... 

b) Dark Retreat (The Tibetans do it for 100s of years, several other tribes do it, tends to induce visions. Some kind melatonin-pineal-gland.connection).

c) Special Breathing (Wim Hoefer, Holotropic Breathing, Tummo, ...)

d) Other stuff (Near Death experiences, cancer in certain areas of the brain (pineal gland), Kundalini, ...).

trigger the body-endohuasca-system.

 

Some meditation-states, especially advanced ones once stabilized in daily life (post-samadhi), or hardcore pillow-meditation-states, are quite "trippy" and

• (1) change the visual field towards "not external/nondual", "lucid,vivid,bright, groundless mere appearance, Nothingness as its essence, "hovering" in Infinite Nothingness".
• (2) kill the localization sensation of being in the body, making one no longer localized in the infinite field, but being the unbounded wholeness of Reality.
• (3) And bliss. Ken Wilbers once linked that drug addicts of Heroin get previews to the bliss of certain meditative states, and of course get addicted to that.
• Although I have never tried Heroin  and am not so stupid to try, in my experience I can confirm (1) (2) and (3). And having these states in place, it becomes possible to intuit and realize what is aware of the whole Enchilada, being also its essence: Nothingness. Perceptions perceiving themselves. Ones True Identity.

There are definitely bodily/energetic/chemical changes going on in these transformations or stabilizing these states as stages. 

The two books are actually a good reading for everyone belittling meditation and the permanent and deep transformations possible (@Breakingthewall, I know you don't and are open. I just write in general, as always).

The states induced by psychedelics that are ripping ones heart open to Infinite Love, bathing ones sould and being in heavenly bliss, and opening the separate self contraction to the Infinite, are also available to the body by endogenous means. Or else, how would the stereotypical enlightened one with a halo depicted around the head "oozing" bliss "work"? Auto-Suggestion? 

• The receptors in the body are there anyway, else psychedelics wouldn't work.
• Just add a system where an enlightened mindstream (empty, fast enough to spot separate-self-arisings, very high Gamma/Delta-waves/meditation states) triggers the body-Endohuasca-system, and one has hypothesized a possible mechanism growing and transforming baseline-consciousness to the Infinite.
  • A system that could explain the manifestation of the potential of the human being, ranging from atom-molecule-animal-primate-human to Infinite Being/True Identity, ACTUALIZED on a permanent and stable basis.
    • Certainly not boosting trippy states to the " stratosphere" where one can no longer "walk straight", but a lovely way to life ones life...
  • ACTUALIZED sounds (at least to me) more like: Realized ones potential, like in "permanently". Not only for the trip, and then again with the next trip... That would be "actualized temporarily...." 

And of course  "Exo"-Huasca of course also works....  

Selling Water by the River

[Theplay]

@AlexNonymous6 Thank you for sharing I appreciate it a lot.

Your intention is my intention as well.

But I go with the Hinayana view which is:

The small vehicle , I will try to spread consciousness and enlightenment to my immediate surroundings.

I don't think it's a game of number (how many entities you help reach the end of the path).

If each of us will help his natural environment without going out of the way to create cults or become a worldwide known guru,

all will be enlightened.

Enlightenment is possible for everyone but not all are ready.

And god has infinite time to wait for those who are not yet ready.

If your will to help global enlightenment is rooted in love it is a positive thing and I wont discourage you from helping that. Not one bit.

 

Namaste

  

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

Get Gamma-frequency of the brain up, and the endohuasca-system probably starts flowing....

Gamma frequencies are imaginary! No hehe I'm jocking .  

It is interesting to go deeper and know all this. An example, I just drove 5 hours to face a business mess and 80% of the way has been joy and openness. This 1 year ago would have been rumination and stress. It is not meditation that has led me to this but observation and deconstruction and psychedelics, which have made it possible to break the wall/shield of the mental stream and open myself to myself. I have meditated hours a day for the last two years, but this has only been preparation. btw, 2 days ago I knew a guy who lives 5 minutes from my house who makes a changa transparent like crystal, I never tried changa. this, added to the information you have shared about dmt, opens up a new path of experimentation for me. Let's see where it leads

Edited May 13, 2023 by Breakingthewall