Why is Musk aligning himself with the worst alt right figures?

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

On 2023-05-31 at 2:19 PM, Leo Gura said:

Neuralink is not implanted in normal healthy people, it is implanted in people with severe disabilities. Like if you have a spinal cord injury you might want to take a gamble to improve it with a Neuralink implant. Not a big deal.

   For now Leo, but the future holds so many possibilities. If neural link is much more successful, who's to stop neural links being mass produced and chipped into citizen's brains?

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, VoidJumper said:

Phew. Glad to see you truly are as intellectually rigorous as you always claim. The level of analysis is unparalleled!

Look, I'm not gonna waste my time digging deep on research about what is happening on Twitter. I gots better shit to do than micro-follow that dumpster fire.

FYI, just today Twitter's 2nd Chief of Safety resigned. So please don't bullshit us about how good Twitter is. Things are not going well there.

I scan much of the news to get a big picture of what's going on. Nothing odd about that. I am much better informed on news than most people. But I don't bog myself down with technical minutia.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Leo Gura

[D2sage]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I am much better informed on news than most people. But I don't bog myself down with technical minutia.

FYI, just today Twitter's 2nd Chief of Safety resigned. So please don't bullshit us about how good Twitter is. Things are not going well there.

As the saying goes, "the devil is in the details"

You don't need to dedicate all your time to research, please find a balance between broad strokes and nuanced understanding.

FYI, the resign came a day after Elon Musk publicly criticized a decision made by the platform regarding content moderation. Musk labeled the decision to limit the visibility of a video over allegations of misgendering as a mistake by many people at Twitter. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-65786326

But how would you know since you only look at headlines. 

Imagine you  want to see your favorite video on Twitter. But some people hide your video because they say it called someone by the wrong name. It's like if someone called you "Leona" when your name is "Leo".

You are bullshitting here.

Scanning headlines and summaries can provide some grasp of events, it may not offer the depth and nuance that political issues often need. Headlines are a gateway into a story and shaped by history, context, and many different perspectives. By not going just a little deeper, Leo, we run the risk of oversimplifying issues and basing our views on misleading or incomplete information.

Edited June 3, 2023 by D2sage

[Danioover9000]

@D2sage

2 hours ago, D2sage said:

As the saying goes, "the devil is in the details"

You don't need to dedicate all your time to research, please find a balance between broad strokes and nuanced understanding.

FYI, the resign came a day after Elon Musk publicly criticized a decision made by the platform regarding content moderation. Musk labeled the decision to limit the visibility of a video over allegations of misgendering as a mistake by many people at Twitter. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-65786326

But how would you know since you only look at headlines. 

Imagine you  want to see your favorite video on Twitter. But some people hide your video because they say it called someone by the wrong name. It's like if someone called you "Leona" when your name is "Leo".

You are bullshitting here.

Scanning headlines and summaries can provide some grasp of events, it may not offer the depth and nuance that political issues often need. Each headline is a gateway into a story and molded by history, context, and many different perspectives. By not going just a little deeper, Leo, we run the risk of oversimplifying issues and basing our views on misleading or incomplete information.

In this political forum of yours, where we aim for meaningful and informed discussions, it becomes even more critical that we take the time to go beyond the headlines. After all, details reveal the true nature of political situations and the underlying dynamics that comes into play.

 

Also Leo, this forum was created to foster open and respectful political discussion, right?

It Appears to have become a platform for pushing personal worldviews rather than engaging in debates. This shift goes again its original goal; to promote understanding and constructive dialogue. If this trend continues, it might be beneficial to you and others to reconsider the purpose and moderation of this forum to make sure it aligns with its the original intent and fosters a truly balanced political conversation.

   What do you mean 'the devil is in the details'?

   What balance do you suggest to @Leo Gura in balancing broad to nuanced understanding of this issue?

   Was content moderation the only reason why the second chief of staff resigned? Why wouldn't Musk's labelling of limit the visibility of a video over allegations of mis-gendering by staffs and many people at Twitter as suspicious? Is Elon Musk implying shadow banning? Is he trying to make it much easier for others to troll and hate speech via Mis-gendering?

   Do you expect @Leo Gura to have enough free time to research past headlines?

   So, because of shadow banning, and the algorithm not suggesting one's video because of a misleading title, misinformation, hate speech, and Mis-gendering, that makes Twitter staff guilty for what? Moderating content more reasonably than Elon Musk's moderating of content today?

   How do you know @Leo Gura is BS at you? Why are you assuming he's lying to you?

   Fair enough explaining the cost of speed reading the headlines and oversimplifying, basing on faulty sources and assumptions, misleading information and incomplete research. However, what's the other tradeoffs and costs of reading too deeply into 1-2 articles? Especially if you're a busy person, do you have enough time, energy, and attention span to spend on deeper and detailed nuanced understanding of 1-2 articles, instead of10-20 articles you skim? Which methods of intaking these articles, skimming the headlines vs deep research, has the more costly tradeoffs here?

   Is that the only reason why this forum exists: to promote and foster open minded discourse and political discussions? 

[D2sage]

@Danioover9000

1. The devil is in the details" means that the complexities  of a situation can only be discovered once you delve into the specifics.
2. Balance comes from understanding the broad context but also scrutinizing important points, not relying solely on headlines.
3. Musk's criticism may not be the only reason for the resignation, but it's a significant event worth noting.
4. It's not about having free time, but making informed contributions in discussions.
5. Twitter's moderation isn't perfect, but it's crucial to balance free speech with respect and safety.
6. I was challenging Leo's approach, not accusing him of lying.
7. The forum should be about informed debate, and if it's deviating from that, it's worth reassessing.

Please be quiet now. Your response on my last post already made it clear that you're unfit for discussions.

[Danioover9000]

@D2sage

1 hour ago, D2sage said:

@Danioover9000

1. The devil is in the details" means that the complexities  of a situation can only be discovered once you delve into the specifics.
2. Balance comes from understanding the broad context but also scrutinizing important points, not relying solely on headlines.
3. Musk's criticism may not be the only reason for the resignation, but it's a significant event worth noting.
4. It's not about having free time, but making informed contributions in discussions.
5. Twitter's moderation isn't perfect, but it's crucial to balance free speech with respect and safety.
6. I was challenging Leo's approach, not accusing him of lying.
7. The forum should be about informed debate, and if it's deviating from that, it's worth reassessing.

Please be quiet now. Your response on my last post already made it clear that you're unfit for discussions.

1. So, the tradeoff and cost of delving into one situation, is you get lost in the details of one source, and no longer can be broad and general?

2. Yet, you demand @Leo Gura to delve into details more, which doesn't compute with your claims of 'understanding broad context BUT ALSO scrutinize important points'. So are you trying to lead Leo into unbalancing his time and energy into one issue when he's dealing with multiple issues?

3. Is that because Elon Musk wants to be in control and manage himself who gets to say and post in Twitter, and who doesn't? How does this support his freedom of speech and freedom to say points, especially right wing talking points, when he himself seeks to control other's speeches and wants to moderate their speeches?

4. How do we make informed contributions in discussions, when in Twitter we saw so much more hate speech, trolling and misinformation from right wing under Elon Musk's leadership? Under Elon Musk's guidance, he fired and let off more than 50% of the staff, tries to monetize via blue bird tags, yet the haters and trolls still can impersonate with the blue birds? How can we have a good faith charitable discourse when most are bad faith, uncharitable and troll and hate? How is this a good example of leadership and taking charge when there's much more problems under Elon, especially when he's being indiscriminate with moderating for left wing speech too ?

5. Same as point 4, how can we balance free speech with respect and safety when there's an increasing hate speech and trolling within Twitter under Elon Musk's charge? Mr. Freedom of speech here had to increase moderation of speech when the right wing haters and trolls increased, so how's that a good example?

6. Why are you denying that you're challenging @Leo Gura by calling him a liar? Are you not implying he's full of BS when you complained to him about 'skimming the headlines' and really suggesting him to have deep nuance?

7. Why are you assuming that this forum should be informed debate and argumentations? Why are you trying to challenge the forum guidelines of no debating and arguing here? Do you not see the limitations of arguing and debating of all types? Why should @Leo Gura capitulate to your demands when this is his forum not yours and that since he was a student of philosophy, which involves a lot of arguing, would that make him more experienced over you in terms of knowing the limits of debating?

I refuse to be silent and will ask many questions about you to clarify your definitions, reasoning and logic, your assumptions and presumptions, maybe your proof of your various claims, and, your assumptions. After all, by demanding me to be quiet, that gets you a pass to spouting nonsense doesn't it?

Edited June 3, 2023 by Danioover9000

[D2sage]

@Danioover9000

Leos statement: "FYI, just today Twitter's 2nd Chief of Safety resigned. So please don't bullshit us about how good Twitter is. Things are not going well there."

That statement is incomplete because it doesn't provide enough context or supporting evidence for the claims he make.

A resignation from a company doesn't automatically imply that things are not going well. People can resign for a variety of reasons.

The tone of Leo G there is confrontational and discourage a balanced discussion.

Instead, he could say: "Twitter's 2nd Chief of Safety resigned, a day after Elon Musk publicly criticized a decision made by the platform regarding content moderation.

That would be a better contribution because it gives some context.

36 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

Why are you denying that you're challenging @Leo Gura by calling him a liar? Are you not implying he's full of BS when you complained to him about 'skimming the headlines' and really suggesting him to have deep nuance?

Challenging someone's approach is not the same as calling them a liar. I was just suggesting a way he could make his points stronger.

The idea of an informed debate doesn't necessarily contradict this forum guidelines. It's about creating a space to discuss and learn.

Arguing for the sake of arguing isn't productive.

 

 

Leo's background in philosophy indeed makes him valuable argumentation and critical thinking, and I respect his expertise. However, expertise in one field, like philosophy, doesn't automatically translate into a comprehensive understanding of all topics.

My suggestions are not demands, but thoughts aimed at enriching the understanding of the political topic.

Edited June 3, 2023 by D2sage

[VoidJumper]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Look, I'm not gonna waste my time digging deep on research about what is happening on Twitter. I gots better shit to do than micro-follow that dumpster fire.

FYI, just today Twitter's 2nd Chief of Safety resigned. So please don't bullshit us about how good Twitter is. Things are not going well there.

I scan much of the news to get a big picture of what's going on. Nothing odd about that. I am much better informed on news than most people. But I don't bog myself down with technical minutia.

Can I ask you a serious question?

I am struggling to square your behavior with your teachings. For example, you often talk about the power of not-knowing. Yet at the same time, you walk around talking about how you know everything better than everybody else.

Here's what I would imagine a truly mature perspective would sound  like : 'I have these certain suspicions that x might be y or z, but really I have no idea.'

So when you talk about getting into these deep states of not-knowing and transcending ego, and then you come out and pretend to know exactly what's going on about everything and even say things like  'I am much better informed on news than most people', sounding almost trumpian, ya sure there ain't a little bit of ego left in there?

 

Leo, I love you man, and I am grateful to you for walking this path of using psychedelics as your primary method for all of us to see and learn from, but from where I'm standing it really looks like you have become delusional.  My theory is that due to excessive use of psychedelics, maybe because you were impatient, or because you were afraid of failure, you have jumped vital developmental steps and as a result created this monstrosity of a spiritual ego. And you just can't seem to see it. Now you are stuck in exploring ever deeper states, but never being one step closer to realizing the absolute, because you have actually abandoned that path a long time ago. All you have left to do now is to go from turtle to turtle, getting ever more entrenched in the illusion of progress while still being as stuck in the most fundamental of levels as ever.

At least that's how I see it. In any case, I am looking forward to see where this whole thing leads. If nothing else, you are certainly one of the most unique and interesting human beings around. Peace.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, D2sage said:

But how would you know since you only look at headlines.

I don't only look at headlines. I consume an enormous amount of news. Stop being dense.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

29 minutes ago, VoidJumper said:

Can I ask you a serious question?

I am struggling to square your behavior with your teachings. For example, you often talk about the power of not-knowing. Yet at the same time, you walk around talking about how you know everything better than everybody else.

There is much I don't know. There is also much I know. Both are true.

29 minutes ago, VoidJumper said:

and then you come out and pretend to know exactly what's going on about everything and even say things like  'I am much better informed on news than most people', sounding almost trumpian, ya sure there ain't a little bit of ego left in there?

It is simply true that I am better informed about political news than most people. That doesn't mean I am perfectly informed.

You have twisted what I said into some kind of egotism, when I was just being honest about the situation.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Leo Gura

[D2sage]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't only look at headlines. Stop being dense.

When it comes to Twitter you only look at headlines because  you clearly have no clue. How is it going bad for twitter when stock performance has improved significantly compared to 2020? Stop spreading lies.

[VoidJumper]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You have twisted what I said into some kind of egotism, when I was just being honest about the situation.

Fair enough, but you do have a pattern of talking like that. And it certainly comes across as egotism. You may disagree. Probably you are just better at identifying what egotism is than most people

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, D2sage said:

When it comes to Twitter you only look at headlines because  you clearly have no clue. How is it going bad for twitter when stock performance has improved significantly compared to 2020? Stop spreading lies.

I have read so much Twitter news in the last 6 months it's sickening. Twitter news is like cancer to my brain.

Twitter stock is doing well? Have you lost your mind? Twitter this week was valued at $15B. Musk purchased it for $40B. Not that this has anything to do with the issue of Twitter's quality or safety.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, VoidJumper said:

Fair enough, but you do have a pattern of talking like that. And it certainly comes across as egotism. You may disagree. Probably you are just better at identifying what egotism is than most people

I am not above egotism, but sometimes I just state a thing clearly and strongly and people take it as egotism. My statements in this thread were not egotistical but accurate reflections of the situation.

What I don't do it fake humility, and people often take that as egotism.

In this thread I was actually humble in admitting that I am not fully informed about all news. Then you guys used that opportunity to pounce on me, twist such a simple fact out of proportion, and cast me as some kind of moron.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Leo Gura

[D2sage]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Twitter stock is doing well? Have you lost your mind? Twitter this week was valued at $15B. Musk purchased it for $40B.

Current price is $53.70. In 2020 it shifted between $32 and $54. Also, institutional investors hold like 70%. Their ownership can  benefit Twitter in the long run.

Edited June 3, 2023 by D2sage

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, D2sage said:

Current price is $53.70

Your numbers are wrong.

Twitter was never valued as low as $15B on Wall Street.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Leo Gura

[VoidJumper]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

In this thread I was actually humble in admitting that I am not fully informed about all news. Then you guys use that opportunity to pounce on me, twist such a simple fact out of proportion, and cast me as some kind of moron.

Made me laugh! It's all good 

[D2sage]

53 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Your numbers are wrong.

Twitter was never valued as low as $15B on Wall Street.

Probably yes, was looking at one outdated site Doubt Elon bought it for the stock tho.

Do you think ISD's research who found an 70% increase in Islamic State accounts on twitter, has a correlation with the increased hate speech?

Edited June 3, 2023 by D2sage

[Leo Gura]

On 6/2/2023 at 3:35 AM, MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI said:

Is reducing hate speech even a task which is achievable?

Oh, certainly!

Every major online platform has large teams working on that. Except now for Twitter, Lol.

We work to reduce hate speech just on this forum. We have banned so many trolls and radical bigots over the years. It takes a lot of work. Don't take it for granted. This forum you see here is not simply a "natural" online space. It is heavily curated to achieve this level of quality. The internet is a very nasty, toxic place "naturally". Moderating a large platform is truly hell. You are dealing with psychopaths and the lowest scum of humanity.

It's hard to appreciate online moderation unless you've actually done it for a while. It's one of those jobs that goes unrecognized but turns out to be oh-so vitally important. Just from my experiencing running this forum for 7 years, it was immediately clear to me that Musk was getting himself into big trouble when he bought Twitter. He didn't understand what he was jumping into. He thought he was buying an Olympic-sized swimming pool, but it was actually an alligator-filled swamp.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Leo Gura

[hoodrow trillson]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Oh, certainly!

Every major online platform has large teams working on that. Except now for Twitter, Lol.

We work to reduce hate speech just on this forum. We have banned so many trolls and radical bigots over the years. It takes a lot of work. Don't take it for granted. This forum you see here is not simply a "natural" online space. It is heavily curated to achieve this level of quality. The internet is a very nasty, toxic place "naturally". Moderating a large platform is truly hell. You are dealing with psychopaths and the lowest scum of humanity.

It's hard to appreciate online moderation unless you've actually done it for a while. It's one of those jobs that goes unrecognized but turns out to be oh-so vitally important. Just from my experiencing running this forum for 7 years, it was immediately clear to me that Musk was getting himself into big trouble when he bought Twitter. He didn't understand what he was jumping into. He thought he was buying an Olympic-sized swimming pool, but it was actually an alligator-filled swamp.

I hope you're IP banning because those people will never change