If You Are In Spirituality Just To Overcome Suffering You Will Not Awaken

[Razard86]

Majority of people who enter Spirituality do so to relieve themselves of psychological suffering. This is understandable but your desire needs to transcend even that because that itself is an attachment. You need to eventually want to awaken no matter if your suffering increases. If you enter Spirituality and never release your attachment to suffering, to your story, then you will not awaken. The biggest barrier for most people to full awakening is the very thing that motivated them to want to awaken.

After fully awakening I laugh because Spirituality is so got damn counter-intuitive and in the words of Ram Dass EVERYTHING IS A TRAP!! This is not a joke, EVERYTHING IS A TRAP. It's why having people on the journey you can bounce ideas off of can help you because Self-Deception is the smartest intelligence you will ever have to deal with. Self-Deception IS infinite intelligence at work at that intelligence knows your every thought and emotion because it's YOU! Now it will guide you, but only if you stop creating a duality and realize that it's you. This will be your toughest obstacle after you release suffering, which is really believing that you are God. When I first broke through and was able to communicate, I denied that it was true even though I knew it. 

I was shown miracle after miracle multiple times before I finally relented and had to succumb to the fact that I was God. I knew all the teachings, so I already knew it was true but seeing it, well that is another matter. But you first you need to desire the Truth for it's own sake. Let go of your suffering, you don't need it anymore.

[Yimpa]

40 minutes ago, Vibes said:

I noticed that my suffering identity is the deepest layer that keeps me distinct, that keeps me human.

Consciously suffering identity is key.

You don’t need to let go of being human; it’s important to understand Self.

All else will follow.

[Moksha]

Suffering for its own sake is reifying. Left to itself, it only leads into deeper descents. The suffering has to be willingly leveraged, like a prybar, to have any worth.

The wisdom of suffering is realizing its cause. When you are able, you finally see that desperately pursuing desires and avoiding fears is the source and sustaining of suffering.

This realization is the knock on the inward-opening door that the absolute has been patiently waiting to hear. The door opens, and the absolute embraces itself.

[ZoweeZoe]

Maybe I am wrong. 

Suffering is inevitable but suffering because you suffer is not inevitable.  

[cetus]

Suffering can be the great motivator.  The guru of gurus. If you let it.

Edited May 7, 2023 by cetus

[cetus]

Suffering is localized.  Omnipresence is liberation.

Edited May 7, 2023 by cetus

[Breakingthewall]

Suffering is what makes you start this work seriously. hardly anyone gets into this to the fullest if they don't suffer. Leo says that he did not suffer, that it was just a desire for understanding. it is a special case. the normal thing is to suffer, not seeing a way out of suffering and looking for it at any cost. but once you realize the truth and you see where this can go, the motivation stops being the avoidance of suffering and becomes the love of the truth. at this intersection the rate of evolution changes. it goes from extremely slow, hard work to advance millimeters, to fast, fluid, straight. you go from digging in the ground to flying in a plane.

[ZoweeZoe]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Suffering is what makes you start this work seriously. hardly anyone gets into this to the fullest if they don't suffer. Leo says that he did not suffer, that it was just a desire for understanding. it is a special case. the normal thing is to suffer, not seeing a way out of suffering and looking for it at any cost. but once you realize the truth and you see where this can go, the motivation stops being the avoidance of suffering and becomes the love of the truth. at this intersection the rate of evolution changes. it goes from extremely slow, hard work to advance millimeters, to fast, fluid, straight. you go from digging in the ground to flying in a plane.

Beautifully explained. 

but what I sense is that the path forward is both seeking suffering and seeking the avoidance of suffering simultaneously. 

[Breakingthewall]

@ZoweeZoe 

It's a very strange thing and it's impossible to understand until you get through the "cut" . you get into spirituality because there is a distortion, something in the software that you are running that squeaks. a dissonance that you carry with you everywhere. you have to align your software, align yourself, but from within the software it is impossible, you can do certain psychological strategies but no more. and if your distortion is great, as is often the case with those who are attracted to spirituality, they will not work. 

So if you are intelligent and have good instincts so as not to be fooled by yourself , you will see that the path is to gradually deconstruct your mind, go in the direction of cleaning this exact moment of the distortion that you are constantly creating. until one day the present opens up and you realize that there was no path, you have always been here. this , now. and the depth of this extends to infinity. but this does not mean that you understand, only that you can begin to understand, so this is the cut, where the psychological suffering ends and the understanding begins

[Yimpa]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Leo says that he did not suffer, that it was just a desire for understanding.

Nah dude, Leo has also experienced some excruciating physical pain that he tried to solve for many months (he has a blog video about it from 2-3 years ago), as well as his thyroid condition.

Perhaps suffering is an essential part of the journey ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Leo says that he did not suffer, that it was just a desire for understanding.

The desire for truth is suffering.

[UnbornTao]

Suffering is pervasive and common, it doesn't necessarily have to take the form of an excruciating event. It's subtle and deep.

Do nothing for one hour. You'll see how quickly boredom, hence loneliness, might come up. Another example is not getting what you want. This domain is huge. Not having ice cream when you want it can be a form of suffering.

21 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The desire for truth is suffering.

What do you mean?

[Breakingthewall]

@Carl-Richard @Yimpa sure he was suffering but he said that his motivation to seek the truth was the truth itself, not to solve his suffering

[Water by the River]

3 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Suffering is pervasive and common, it doesn't necessarily have to take the form of an excruciating event. It's subtle and deep.

Do nothing for one hour. You'll see how quickly boredom, hence loneliness, might come up. Another example is not getting what you want. This domain is huge. Not having ice cream when you want it can be a form of suffering.

Yes, exactly.

And suffering keeps the show going. Chasing for experiences to alleviate the discontent one is having, only to later find out that the sought experiences only temporally eased the discontent.

Not that the separate self arisings suddenly just pause, and one contemplates what actually is.  . Suffering, or discontent, is a major and necessary building block of the illusion and show of this Lila.

By the way, Dukha in Buddhism, which is often falsly translated as suffering, means literally "unsatisfactoriness", exactly as you desribe. No experience that is chased brings final relief of this fundamental building block of the separate self, its fundamental unsatisfactoriness. One could even write "separate self arisings"="unsatisfactoriness". Not completely, but concerning the effect to a large part. At least my observation and experience.

Only when resting in ones True Being is this discontent/suffering removed, with bliss from ones core that is stronger and replaces the discontent. "Bliss replaces misery", as a Tibetan quote in "Pointing out the Great Way, Brown" says,.

When one can sit down, rest in ones True Core, get the bliss flowing, and have no problem sitting there a few hours, then one actually has achieved a major part of the path. And it is not that one has to force onself to do that. I wouldn't write it if I would not know from my own experience that this is possible.

Selling Water by the River

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Water by the River

[Water by the River]

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

@ZoweeZoe 

It's a very strange thing and it's impossible to understand until you get through the "cut" . you get into spirituality because there is a distortion, something in the software that you are running that squeaks. a dissonance that you carry with you everywhere. you have to align your software, align yourself, but from within the software it is impossible, you can do certain psychological strategies but no more. and if your distortion is great, as is often the case with those who are attracted to spirituality, they will not work. 

So if you are intelligent and have good instincts so as not to be fooled by yourself , you will see that the path is to gradually deconstruct your mind, go in the direction of cleaning this exact moment of the distortion that you are constantly creating. until one day the present opens up and you realize that there was no path, you have always been here. this , now. and the depth of this extends to infinity. but this does not mean that you understand, only that you can begin to understand, so this is the cut, where the psychological suffering ends and the understanding begins

Yes. Beautifully written. 

Water by the River

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

What do you mean?

 

Quote

desire

a strong feeling of wanting to have something or wishing for something to happen.

strongly wish for or want (something).

 

Quote

• [...]
• samudaya (origin, arising, combination; 'cause'): dukkha arises or continues with taṇhā ("craving, desire or attachment, lit. "thirst"). While taṇhā is traditionally interpreted in western languages as the 'cause' of dukkha, tanha can also be seen as the factor tying us to dukkha, or as a response to dukkha, trying to escape it;
• [...]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths

[Yimpa]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

The desire for truth is suffering.

3 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

What do you mean?

I think what he means is that desiring a finite form of yourself/truth is suffering.

Even desiring a memory of a mystical experience or insight is suffering, since you are trying to hold onto that as the only truth.

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Yes. Beautifully written. 

Water by the River

thank you, I also appreciate your posts very much, I even read them from beginning to end ?

[Water by the River]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

 I even read them from beginning to end ?

   

[Yimpa]

28 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Yes. Beautifully written. 

Water by the River

8 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

thank you, I also appreciate your posts very much, I even read them from beginning to end ?

4 minutes ago, Water by the River said: