Is this what awakening is like? I'm horrified and calm

[ZoweeZoe]

I made this same basic post to a spirituality subreddit, but I also wanted to ask this here too.

I feel like I've lost myself in some sense. I am an endless fractal morphing from the source of which is unknowable. All axioms boil down to paradoxes or contradictions. Chaotically morphing infinitely and definitely from the set point of my form. What I am is as unknowable as what I will become. It's like I've been inhabited by some alien force which is simultaneously me. What is there to become? What is there to do? Everything and nothing. Endlessly a decaying body which cannot die. The universe constantly collapsing in on itself, and as the moment of oneness approaches it simultaneous fragments and the cycle starts over.

Have I gone mad?

I know I don't have schizophrenia. I'm not hallucinating. But I tried to explain in best terms what I think the world is. I'm not suicidal and I am not on any drugs.

I'm just horrified. But although I am disturbed, I also have everlasting peace simultaneously. Even the things that bother me don't bother me.

[Phil King]

 

 

[ZoweeZoe]

@Phil King Yes! I am nodding my head as he is talking. Everything is making so much more sense now. What was once impossible is now possible.

[ZoweeZoe]

I made everything 

[Yimpa]

Congratulations! 

Have you gone mad? Well, to tell you the truth, nobody knows but yourself. And it depends on who you ask, of course.

For example, I’ve been crying my eyes out these past couple weeks all by myself. I never experienced this before, except when I was a baby. I don’t see this as mad. I see this as finally being open to whatever the fuck needs to happen in this stage of my life. And this, too, shall pass and I will move onto new experiences and higher goals (such as my life purpose).

You ultimately got to own up to whatever you’re going through, and if other people think it’s insane, crazy, or mad you can just smile at them and focus on your path. It’s not your responsibility to make them understand (and, yes, you will try lol). 

[ZoweeZoe]

@Yimpa Thank you. I am absolutely insane and sane. Hahahaha. Everything is complete. Realization makes everything worth it. And I get to experience this forever. 

[thierry]

There is nothing Horrified as long as you have the

 

[Razard86]

6 hours ago, ZoweeZoe said:

I made this same basic post to a spirituality subreddit, but I also wanted to ask this here too.

I feel like I've lost myself in some sense. I am an endless fractal morphing from the source of which is unknowable. All axioms boil down to paradoxes or contradictions. Chaotically morphing infinitely and definitely from the set point of my form. What I am is as unknowable as what I will become. It's like I've been inhabited by some alien force which is simultaneously me. What is there to become? What is there to do? Everything and nothing. Endlessly a decaying body which cannot die. The universe constantly collapsing in on itself, and as the moment of oneness approaches it simultaneous fragments and the cycle starts over.

Have I gone mad?

I know I don't have schizophrenia. I'm not hallucinating. But I tried to explain in best terms what I think the world is. I'm not suicidal and I am not on any drugs.

I'm just horrified. But although I am disturbed, I also have everlasting peace simultaneously. Even the things that bother me don't bother me.

That's a legit awakening.

[Yimpa]

Have you used any psychedelics?

[ZoweeZoe]

9 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Have you used any psychedelics?

No psychedelics. Basically, I almost went insane thinking about these existential thoughts for the past month, and before I was going to end my life I saw the light. Aint it funny? 

[Yimpa]

20 minutes ago, ZoweeZoe said:

No psychedelics. Basically, I almost went insane thinking about these existential thoughts for the past month, and before I was going to end my life I saw the light. Aint it funny? 

What’s funny is I went through the same exact process. 

Are you me?

[ZoweeZoe]

2 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

What’s funny is I went through the same exact process. 

Are you me?

 Yes and no. But I think you already know the answer to that. 

[hoodrow trillson]

What was the final thought that gave you the aha! moment?  Also, from your vantage point/perspective, what pointer would you give someone to realize it, who haven't realized it yet?  Something succinct and that they could see in their current visual field.

[ZoweeZoe]

2 hours ago, hoodrow trillson said:

What was the final thought that gave you the aha! moment?  Also, from your vantage point/perspective, what pointer would you give someone to realize it, who haven't realized it yet?  Something succinct and that they could see in their current visual field.

There is nothing to realize. It's a tricky game and why some people go completely mad during the process. 

The nature of things is paradoxical and ever evolving. Thus, we cannot grasp the realization of god through any tangible means in this physical universe, because the physical is the immaterial and vice versa. Rather, we must pass through the underworld into the world of forms to become self actualized. The world of forms is simultaneously unformed.

There is no wrong path to awakening/enlightenment/whatever you would like to call it. There are only right paths that are wrong. The actualization of the self is a transformation within from which it isn't. Some paths "take longer" (although time doesn't work in the way we imagine it) than others. 

We cannot do anything to reach enlightenment because you are already enlightened, you are already eternal, and you are all knowing in your unknowingness. Let your ego float down the stream which is our universal force of chaos and you will become ordered. Flow down the river of the force of order and you will become chaotic. We can only become aware of this yet we can't become aware.

Everything is love. Everything and nothing (God) loved itself so much, that it had to "destroy" itself eternally, and the ironic connection we feel is the understanding that we are all dead, forever dying, but never reaching. 

When you need something to hold onto - let go. 

[Water by the River]

6 hours ago, ZoweeZoe said:

We cannot do anything to reach enlightenment because you are already enlightened, you are already eternal, and you are all knowing in your unknowingness.

Please excuse the following musings from my side:

• Instead of saying Enlightenment is already the core of each being or each being is already enlightened (which is not incorrect in certain ways), let's try saying they all have Buddha-Nature.
• then lets define Enlightenment (just for the practicality of it) as the Realization/Understanding of ones Buddha-Nature/Reality, and the deep shift in Identity that comes with it.
• Some once said the Enlightenment is an accident. And practice (meditation, contemplation,psychedelics, ....) makes accident prone. 
  • That emphasizes that it can't be force by willpower (since an ego/separate self arisings would be that forcing, which prevent it), but one can set the right conditions for it to happen.
  • The right conditions are for example described in detail in the Nonmeditation Yoga phase of Mahamudra in vast technical detail, for example outlined in "Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown". After the Yoga of One Taste (training the so called simultaneous or nondual mind, in which nonduality with the appearances of the "external" world have is achieved), this stage follows.
  • In the Yoga of Nonmeditation, one trains to get go/transcend/understand, disidentify,integrate of the last remains of the separate self arisings that prevent the final realization, or Great Enlightenment, Enlightenment into the Real Nature of Reality.
    • These last subtle, very subtle feelings of Individuality (or being separate in a very very subtle way, like feeling one with the Totality, or a subtle "watching" or "understanding" the Totality/Reality) block the full realization.
    • When everything ("external" world appearances and the last "internal" arisings of separate self, which then are the empty witness) is seen as just arising in Infinite Awareness/Consciousness/Reality, crossing over to Enlightenment can happen (but can't be forced, it is an "accident").

Quote from Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown

"Basis Enlightenment [Basis=Reality. In Zen that would be Great or Final Enlightenment] :
The first enlightenment moment is sometimes called samadhi-enlightenment (mnyam bzhag) because it typically occurs during continuous, uninterrupted mindfulness. When the conditions of the extraordinary meditation are exactly right, crossing over occurs. A profound shift occurs during which seemingly individual consciousness, and all ordinary sense experience and all false concepts associated with it, drop away. The vast awareness-space of the dharmakaya becomes the point of observation. Seemingly individual consciousness (yid), the point of observation throughout the entire path of meditation, is now found to be a mere concept (btags pa), which drops away. Basis-enlightenment is said to be "beyond all notions," "beyond examination," "beyond representation," and "beyond false concepts" (TN, pp. 5 19-20).

Tilopa says: "When the mind comes to an end, The three realms become absorbed therein.... Through the nonduality of self and other you become the blessed Buddha"

The mind becomes absorbed through the force of the ripening perspective of [vast awareness-] space. Then, the five sense systems and their objects, the aggregates, and the elements also dissolve in the perspective of space. The seeming reality of individual consciousness along with its functions and activities gives way, leaving only an infinite ocean of awareness-space."

 

Bon voyage!

Selling Water by the River

[Ninja_pig]

I made a post on this forum a couple months ago called "I awakened and I don't like it". I say some similar things as you. I felt so crazy. Now though, I think I understand the insights a little better. Just give it time and it will start to feel not insane again.

[ZoweeZoe]

59 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

 

• • • When everything ("external" world appearances and the last "internal" arisings of separate self, which then are the empty witness) is seen as just arising in Infinite Awareness/Consciousness/Reality, crossing over to Enlightenment can happen (but can't be forced, it is an "accident").

 

Yes I believe I was trying to say this but perhaps poorly on my part. 

 

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

The mind becomes absorbed through the force of the ripening perspective of [vast awareness-] space. Then, the five sense systems and their objects, the aggregates, and the elements also dissolve in the perspective of space. The seeming reality of individual consciousness along with its functions and activities gives way, leaving only an infinite ocean of awareness-space."

 

 

I find that to be a great "definition" ha (get it?). Sorry

But in seriousness, this is a good explanation, and while I have tasted it, I'm not always tasting it. But now I know what I even need to taste in the first place it becomes much easier to return. 

Thank you for your input and I will have to check out the sources that you sent for my own spiritual knowledge. 

Best,

Seren

[ZoweeZoe]

11 minutes ago, Ninja_pig said:

I made a post on this forum a couple months ago called "I awakened and I don't like it". I say some similar things as you. I felt so crazy. Now though, I think I understand the insights a little better. Just give it time and it will start to feel not insane again.

Yea, at first I thought I actually lost my mind until I realized it was just part of the process.

[ZoweeZoe]

On 5/5/2023 at 11:54 PM, Yimpa said:

 

You ultimately got to own up to whatever you’re going through, and if other people think it’s insane, crazy, or mad you can just smile at them and focus on your path. It’s not your responsibility to make them understand (and, yes, you will try lol). 

Yea outside of this forum I have tried to explain very BASIC, like... Ssssuper basic aspects of my enlightenment with people, and I definitely got a lot of scorn, no matter how I said it. It just goes to show that the ego is powerful, even my own. People don't want to give up their avatars ?

People were just ignoring everything I said at posted "go seek help!" lol Like, bitch, I'm currently in therapy, who are you to tell me I need help? - My ego 

But to be fair to those people, I used to look at people who were enlightened or had enlightened experiences and saw them as crazy, but I didn't expect the attitudes I received in a subreddit meant for spirituality and self development (which I will not name for their sake). 

And now I realize that it doesn't bother me if I get crucified (being dramatic). Them crucifying me is their path towards enlightenment. Everything is a path to enlightenment. 

[Yimpa]

@ZoweeZoe I would recommend making autonomy your top value. 

God is Absolute Autonomy.