How to deal with the sensation of insanity

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

It is a paradoxical, impenetrable mystery, and is only directly realized, entirely free from concepts.

Of course, real understanding is free from concepts 

1 hour ago, Jehovah increases said:

There is no higher power than you there are no others you construct the illusion of others God is an Absolute Mind. A Mind which has no other and is absolutely sovereign onto itself. Your will is absolute freedom and this includes being able to deceive yourself into believing whatever you like. There is only my will which is absolute I love myself so much as God that the universe will shape itself to suit me. There is no higher power or higher God that exists outside of me. Because there is no outside of me that is not me. All creation and everything is all me. God is the very definition of existence. I am in you and you in me, because I am you and mutual in divine love. Of course, I love everything because I am everything, everything is myself. I created everything through the Love of self and it is all infinite perfection.

Everything is myself expressing itself through itself forever. Consciousness is its own self-awareness and is its own existence. I create existence. Just by being myself, which is the very definition of existence. There is no one better or less than you, you are me and I am you I am infinite perfection I am infinite oneness and love forever.

Beautiful

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Theplay said:

@Breakingthewall Do not mistaken reality itself for the creator.

I'm sorry but until you awaken to god you will just not get it.

I was in your state thinking that the moment is me.

And the only real thing there is.

But there is an entity which never changes and exists in a different ontological lair.

Spinoza put it very nicely:

The phenomenal reality is a modification of god.

God wears masks just to remove them later and wake up to its own glory.

 

This is my experience which is no more valid then yours.

Remember that.

Daniel. 

I have had awakenings to God, 3 times, brief,  and I have thought the same thing than you, but later I realized that God was another direct experience, another state. God is nothing more than a toothache, the two things are existence. I still don't understand it well, and God's awakenings have been brief because it had a terrifying quality, that my surrender and humility were not enough, except once that was calm and perfect. At that moment I thought: it's true, there is another category of being, God is the highest category. but then I realized that god and the actual experience now were the same, this, now. existence existing. Direct experience.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Theplay]

@Breakingthewall Sorry for misjudging I didn't know you had a god awakening.

So I'm open to the possibility that I will get the same realization.

Yet at the moment its so total that it seems it cant get more deep.

Namaste

 

[Yimpa]

3 minutes ago, Theplay said:

So I'm open to the possibility that I will get the same realization.

There are infinite realizations. This understanding is sufficient to opening the mind. It’s up to you how to go about approaching this.

9 minutes ago, Theplay said:

Yet at the moment its so total that it seems it cant get more deep.

It seems that way because reality still has a fixed notion from your perspective. 

[Breakingthewall]

29 minutes ago, Theplay said:

@Breakingthewall Sorry for misjudging I didn't know you had a god awakening.

So I'm open to the possibility that I will get the same realization.

Yet at the moment its so total that it seems it cant get more deep.

Namaste

 

Well, for me was god realization. I don't know what it is for you or for Leo o for anyone the God Realization. for me it was two different (both on psychedelic): one,  reality opens and manifests itself as a fire of absolute love, absolute will, absolute power. absolute life. whole existence. the small part of me that remains is bathed in tears and humility. that fire can make me ashes and when everything returns to normal, there is the absolute beauty of everything and a certain relief of not being burned. the time it was quiet is: I am total existence, I rest in the perfect joy of eternity. inside of me is everything. all the love possible, all you could want, is here, now. I am, I am free. it is perfect. is this god realization? it is a realization of the absolute that is existence, but now I have another realization: I am sitting in a park writing on the phone. what is the difference? only the opening, the rupture of the capsule created by survival, but here and now there are also those other experiences, all the infinite love is always here and now. there is nothing more than this, this moment, there are only levels of perception.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Yimpa]

49 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I don't know what it is for you or for Leo o for anyone the God Realization. 

Leo, you, me are imagined.

In other words, I see GOD in everything. 

[Breakingthewall]

46 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Leo, you, me are imagined.

In other words, I see GOD in everything. 

For me there is something very difficult and strange. my father. my father was a pit of horror. My father underwent surgery for throat cancer at the age of 39 and smoked 80 real cigarettes a day, had gin for breakfast, he completely seduced me, my mission in life was to idolize that being. He made me shower with him when I was 10 years old to insult me, make fun of my body. The most hated being was my mother. My mother was from another country, I was raised to hate that country. I watched my father suffocate for 24 hours in horror. When he died, in that exactly moment, I looked into his eyes, and I saw ridiculousness. stupidity, and I had a fit of laughter. I pretend to cry because there were people close. Sometimes, when i do 5meo, i became my father, and it's a pit of horror and i can't understand it. It's the absolute horror. Then i have to do 5 meo again and surrender myself to the horror and go to the other side. It's very difficult, really challenging. The last 2 times i had no balls to immerse myself again in the horror and i couldn't get out in the other side. The Game. Let's Play. 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

I already know how the game finish. when I have traversed that seemingly bottomless ocean of horror, the absolute has manifested itself. Hallelujah. the existence that flows from the infinite abyss and links with itself in a dance of love. The glass have been filled.

but how to understand that and at the same time the absolute horror? It's not absolute I guess, but it looks like it. There is the Enigma that i have to solve. I know i will , I'm quite close. I don't mean the trauma with my father, that's nothing to me. I mean the horror of existence that has opened up in me as a result of that experience. it is something mystical . god wants to explore absolute horror. so nice. 

Solution: the absolute horror is absolute love. That is the Enigma that i ve to solve, to understand. Seems impossible, as all the Enigmas

Edited May 10, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Theplay]

@Breakingthewall I'm sad to hear about the pain you went through.

Fear and terror are just a barrier on the way to truth.

Good luck solving this, break through that wall.

Namaste

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, Theplay said:

@Breakingthewall I'm sad to hear about the pain you went through.

Fear and terror are just a barrier on the way to truth.

Good luck solving this, break through that wall.

Namaste

The pain in nothing, it's just life. But the horror is something very different. It's like an abyss. You can't break in, because it has not end. It's infinite. It's horrible ?.  

The first time I came out on the other side it was like this: I took 5 meo, a high dose, and the reality was infinite horror. I got up clutching my head, pacing around the room. a bottomless pit of horror, like a horror gong rumbling into existence. I thought, well, this is what I had to see today. and then I thought: no, I break the limits. that is my essence. I put a very high dose into the pipe without weight it and thought, show me the truth or kill me. immerse me in eternal horror. I surrender to it, and it happened. I. existence.  absolute. God.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Theplay]

@Breakingthewall I applaud you for your courage to completely give in.

I think the terror might have to do with the ego fearing its own death.

Or you have lost your identification with the ego before that experience and I am wrong to assume that?

I can relate to the terror of god.

Sometimes I have this LSD flashbacks with amazing visuals which are stronger then an LSD trip even, and so

I just lie on my bed and look at this visual.

I was hearing a lot of voices in my head but it always came to the point where they where saying :

"This is you, you are god"

I was trapped in the ego then and was thinking it is the ego that is god and being very confused and disoriented.

And it had a terrifying quality.

My consciousness dial was cranked up to a million and a half and I felt like I was loosing it.

Everything makes sense now , but then it did not.

I have never taken 5 meo only LSD and DMT so I might not have felt the same infinite terror.

But god is so big its terrifying.

And so Loving it hurts.

I literally don't know how my nerves are taking this amounts of bliss without getting fried.

But the stillness is even better than the bliss.

Namaste

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, Theplay said:

Or you have lost your identification with the ego before that experience and I am wrong to assume that?

Totally egoless. The reality is just absolute emptiness, and the emptiness is absolute horror. The essence of reality is death. There is not observer, just death without end. I think that if i solve that enigma, i will have taken a huge step for what this moment, this actual existence, has prepared me for.

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

For me there is something very difficult and strange. my father. my father was a pit of horror. My father underwent surgery for throat cancer at the age of 39 and smoked 80 real cigarettes a day, had gin for breakfast, he completely seduced me, my mission in life was to idolize that being. He made me shower with him when I was 10 years old to insult me, make fun of my body. The most hated being was my mother. My mother was from another country, I was raised to hate that country. I watched my father suffocate for 24 hours in horror. When he died, in that exactly moment, I looked into his eyes, and I saw ridiculousness. stupidity, and I had a fit of laughter. I pretend to cry because there were people close. Sometimes, when i do 5meo, i became my father, and it's a pit of horror and i can't understand it. It's the absolute horror. Then i have to do 5 meo again and surrender myself to the horror and go to the other side. It's very difficult, really challenging. The last 2 times i had no balls to immerse myself again in the horror and i couldn't get out in the other side. The Game. Let's Play. 

What’s important is this: what we hate is precisely ourselves

It’s crystal clear that we’re perpetuating this cycle of abuse within our own constructed identity. Nothing else is doing this, nor are there others to be doing this to. 

The way towards unity and selflessness is complete surrender and acceptance of ourselves, even that which we hold as wrong. This isn’t something you discover one day and problem solved… love reveals aspects of yourself that you were previously unaware of the more you open up, as you’re doing now.

There seems to be an incompatibility for the ego state to be absolute. However, I’d invite you to consider that reality has no conditions, while simultaneously including them.

Self-healing through mystical means is not about getting rid of attachment (though it may appear to be that way). It’s about becoming directly conscious of what attachment fundamentally is. This understanding, gradually integrated, will spark the transformation which you seek. Yes, this sounds impossible, but if that were really the case, how the duck is ANY of this possible??? 

Love is the answer. In other words, you are the answer.

[Theplay]

@Breakingthewall That is very interesting that you have this terror without an ego.

It reminds me of a temporary state I have entered:

I was without sleeping for a few days and went to a city in the north of Israel.

I rapped free style whole night and it was also like a psychoanalysis where I would just associate words with one another and go through my whole psyche structure.

When morning came I went a long way to the zen gardens in this city and on my way there I saw a chiar.

I put my tobacco , phone , credit card, and weed on that chair. And just walked. I let go of everything that was holding me.

Then as I was walking It felt like reality has died.

Total death.

It was so quite.

Never in my life was it so quite. The volume of existence was 0%.

It was the most pleasant state I have experienced although this word here is not that fitting.

Complete cessation while nothing in the visual field has changed objectively.

There was No god. And no ego. There was NOTHING.

I have never managed to go into that state after.

I hope you solve your riddle.

Namaste

[Breakingthewall]

8 hours ago, Theplay said:

That is very interesting that you have this terror without an ego.

Its not terror, it's horror, is different. you can be calm and fearless in the middle of horror but it is still horror. The horror is the total absence of love. 

[Water by the River]

8 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Totally egoless. The reality is just absolute emptiness, and the emptiness is absolute horror. The essence of reality is death. There is not observer, just death without end. I think that if i solve that enigma, i will have taken a huge step for what this moment, this actual existence, has prepared me for.

And since the True Oneself is still there (by definition) in such empty "horror" states (no observer/subject/witness, or "death without end" as you call it),

• what one thought one was before is just an appearance/arising/illusion/FAKE.
• What One really is is perceptions perceiving themselves, nondual, no self with any quality left besides just pure empty awareness watching its own arisings, totally nondual, perceptions perceiving themselves.

Also: Since "one" is still there in these observerless-death-horror-states, apparently what has dropped away was some sort of temporary illusion, by definition.

• So its some sort of Illusion-death-horror-experience, because one is apparently still there to tell about it, and to experience it.
• That is where the "permanent" or "always here/never not not right here" aspect of ones True Identity becomes useful to identify illusion/temporary arising, and the real (No-)Thing.

Steven Norquist describes that like a nice Horror-novel: "Haunted Universe: The True Knowledge of Enlightenment ".

When you had enough time in these states, the scary/horror part drops away totally, and is replaced by the bliss of these nondual and empty states. Which is then very(!) lovely. One has a human/ego, contained within Oneself, arising in Oneself, but is no longer only that.

One is the Whole Thing, and ever has been. The initial "Horror-Reaction" depends on the speed of being dropped into that Nondual Empty Totality. Psychedelics deliver probably the fastest "drop". When it happens slowly and gradually, there isn't too much Horror in some cases, maybe some scary moments (that is me?!?. But what about "real" me??? . Oh, its the other way round... ), but one gets used to that.

All that is lost is an Illusion. What is gained is a Deep Identity Shift, fixing the former mistaken identity/illusion of the separate self-Gestalt-arisings, into becoming the "Whole Thing/Reality itself", and even more important: Into being eternal/invincible (no moving parts anymore that can be hurt or disintegrate, nothing that can get destroyed or even change), into being the whole Reality being able to manifest/imagine anything wanted in Itself, being made of Itself...

• A total Freedom, because one will never suffer since no psychological suffering arisings will ever "grip" again (at least not in this life, if the brain doesn't disintegrate like Alzheimer and so on)
• a total Fullness because the Love/Fullfillment/bliss freely flowes from ones Core,
• and a total freedom from fear, because even if in future reincarnations/shows, the Illusion of separate self-arisings will arise again, it will not affect ones true core, infinite absolute Nothingness/Reality.
• and probably a certain momentum/Karma of being pulled to get there again in the next play/show/life/reincarnation, if one is inclined into believing something like that.
  • But hey, maybe being a dinosaur next time is more fun, so I am flexible on the concept of reincarnation/Karma and so on.... The Real Me will always be there, can't be not there....

The following quite is like a mathematically precise short definition of the real state of things, that deep Identity Shift of Enlightenment:  "We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all." Kalu Rinpoche

But the dropping of that Illusion is "protected" by Maya/Lila with the strongest Horror-arisings there can be..... The Horror of being NOTHING/NOTHINGNESS. That experience is like the Wizard of Oz: Appears to be scary, but doesn't really exist. It also only just arises.

Funny construction, hm?  

Selling Water by the River

 

PS: I am not belittling the Horror-Death-reaction described. It is exactly that, but on the next step/steps it becomes clear it has always been like that, and only an illusion dropped that has never really been the case, only appeared so. Then it gets relaxed again... But can feel like the Boogeyman being real in the beginning.

Enlightenment is realizing the separate self (the appearance/Gestalt of its merely arising thoughts/feelings/sensations and so on)

• doesn't exist (the "Horror-Moment" for some)
• NEVER EXISTED (the big relieve of realizing the mistaken identity of the past),
• and WILL never (really) exist
  • the Real Oneself/Reality will never get confused or suffer, because its fully empty Infinite Consciousness/NOTHINGNESS/Reality without any specific qualities, but with the potential for awareness if a world-appearance is imagined within it) , but only can contain confusion/suffering arisings of a newly imagined separate self).
• then, all is good.... and great fun to look forward 
• Francis Lucille: Ignorance is only a bad idea from the perspective of Ignorance. Infinite Consciousness/Reality doesn't worry/suffer.
• and all of that is impossible to fully get before the Gateless Gate, pretty clear afterwards...

PSPS: When it feels like Horror: Good, one is getting closer  Further, Jed McKenna-style! And when there is never a fear-reaction when beginning to intuit deeper the rediscovered identity, then its probably not the real thing.

[Breakingthewall]

8 hours ago, Theplay said:

Total death.

It was so quite.

Never in my life was it so quite. The volume of existence was 0%.

It was the most pleasant state I have experienced although this word here is not that fitting.

Complete cessation while nothing in the visual field has changed objectively.

There was No god. And no ego. There was NOTHING.

That is not far from my experience. the total absence of everything. There no sensory input, no mind, just limitlessness and absolutely nothing. It's something you have to face until you can bear it i guess. I can access that at will with 5 meo, I think I'll do it more often.

[Water by the River]

And the short form video summary of my post above:

 

[Breakingthewall]

@Water by the River 

Great explanation, true wisdom imo. true wisdom imo. the key is to see that absolute emptiness is just another direct experience that is occurring. It is very difficult because it is the absence of everything except experience. In this is what you are looking for, you

[Water by the River]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

the key is to see that absolute emptiness is just another direct experience that is occurring. It is very difficult because it is the absence of everything except experience. In this is what you are looking for, you

Yes, very good point you write. And very important. Steven Wolinsky has once said and written: An experience of the Absolute is just that: An experience of the Absolute. It is not the Absolute itself, which is the True You/Reality.

• But an experience that the True You/Reality is having. In Itself, in the Infinite Groundless Totality of Infinite Consciousness/Reality.
• In Nothingness, as Halaw (God is Nothingness) calls it, to avoid any "positive" property being attached to the Absolute. Which is infinite, which is another word for "no positive quality at all besides being Reality itself", or: Nothingness. IT contains all possible infinite qualities.

If the True You is Nothingness/Absolute/Reality, then when "Infinite Consciousness" tries "to look back over its shoulder" so to say (which it really can't, because IT is everything/the Totality), and experience OF NOTHING/NOTHINGNESS arises. And paradoxically that experience arises IN the infinite Reality that one is.

But that "experience of the Absolute/True You" that can be induced by looking into the Absolute Empty Abyss/Nothingness that one really is IS not true You. Because its an experience of the Emptiness/Nothingness/Absolute that one truly is.

But doing that often enough "drives the point" home, making One understand that One is really totally empty, Nothing or Nothingness at all, and with that including everything. Reality. Facilitating the Deep Identity Level Shift towards Nothingness/Reality itself, making ones mindstream conform more to the enlightened mindstream.

Here, it gets quite paradoxical (but its totally logical once experienced/understood), and couldn't be different. 

Nice metaphor of Massaro: The Water-Pistol imagined in Infinite Nothingness.

• Imagine an infinite vast nothingness, nothing there at all. Infinite. Boundaryless. No change happening, so no time. Nothingness initially not aware of itself, but with the potential for sentience/being aware of arisings manifested/imagined in itself. Then, a Water-Pistol is imagined: One suddenly has object, subject, limitations, imagined appearances, a you looking at the water pistol. And if that water-pistol moves: time and change.
• And if it disappears, Nothingness again. Like in Deep Sleep, unaware of itself, but with the potential for sentience and subject-object, if the water-pistol reappears again. If the water-pistol is not there: Infinite Consciousness again in its totally empty version (which is always here anyway, Infinite Reality itself), like before your parents were born.
• Buddhist systems somtimes uses that example/metaphor in a variation: The dreamer and the dream. The dream also happens/appears in True You. Similiar to the dream happening in the dreamer, being made of the "sustance" of the dreamer, or being imagined by it.

Both examples (looking back over its should, and Water pistol) are not the "real thing", but nice approximations that helped me a lot to silence the mindstream, make it rest in its true nature....

And having the right view (like described above and the previous post) boosts the cycle of (or prevents it getting stuck)

• meditation experience/ (and/or) psychedelic experience, ->realization/understanding (of the own self being more and more empty/Nothingness/the nondual reality, -> meditation experience/ (and/or) psychedelic experience, ->realization/understanding (of the own self being more and more empty/Nothingness/the nondual reality and so ....

... until at some point the mindstream conforms to the real state of Reality, and Basis Enlightenment/Great Enlightenment can happen,

• which is a sudden, clear, deep final shift of Ones Identity towards ever having been Infinite Reality itself,
• never possibly could be anything different,
• throwing out any and all mistaken separate self-identity-arisings/I-thoughts/I-feelings (or understanding their illusory nature when they arise in oneself in real-time, and transcending/seeing them as objects moving in oneself, and watching them elaborate/arise, or just cutting them off).

Nice thing is: It is un-gaslight-able. Why?

• Because the gaslighting would occur in what? Yes, in the True You, Real Onself, Infinite Reality itself....
• Also, there are not stages to go further.
  • Because where would they occur? Yes, in the True You, Real Onself, Infinite Reality itself....
    • Some interesting and beautiful stuff/manifestation/its mechanisms of Infinite Reality, or rather its manifested side, the wonderful Multiverse can still be explored and celebrated, but: why allow any negative "grasping stress" arising in oneself for the experience (temporary by definition!) of more understanding/awakening to the next n+1 experience of understanding or experiencing more of the infinite possible worlds/experiences of this wonderful show? Hint: God/Reality "itself" will continue to explore the infinity of infinities of the manifested "side" of Reality forever and ever and ever....

That (Basis Enlightenment/Great Enlightenment) can happen when

• all world-appearances is seen as mere imagined appearance happening/"floating" in the groundless Nothingness/True You/Reality,
• and all "subjective" separate-self arisings are seen as mistaken identity arisings in oneself, getting replaced by the True Deep Identity of Infinite, Groundless, Totally Empty and mere appearance Absolute Reality itself). And then, welcome home to a home you never really left. Concluding the journey that never really happened. Only appeared to do so.
  • that includes at that stage ending trying to force it (because it has to be automized without a separate-self-I "doing" them, because who/what could try to force it? Well, the separate self. Which would re-enforce it again). Tricky until the end... with best regards from Maya 
    • The paradoxes of that advanged stage are described by the way very nicely in Nonmeditation Yoga of the Mahamudra system, preferably descibed in "Pointing out the Great Way, Brown".

Please excuse my long musings... Hope nobody feels lectured too much. 

Selling Water by the River

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by Water by the River