How to deal with the sensation of insanity

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Moksha said:

why would hitting your thumb with a hammer have any effect when you are directly experiencing reality? If your body is still there, does this imply anything about your direct experience?

Of course, it implies everything. Let's see, reality is absolute, right? is infinite, and is one. This is so, it is the Truth. and you are that. and me too because you and I are one. but it seems that it is not absolute, nor infinite, nor one. seems finite and multiple. How is it possible? easy. from the blow of the hammer on your finger. for the perfectly made appearance that you have a body that can be damaged by external agents. but that got obsolete and we have invented something more fun to create a crazy duality. It is not your body that is threatened, it is your mind. your self image. As a human you are not an individual who must survive in the jungle, you are an atom in a hive, and you need acceptance, love and belonging. and who should give it to you is the other, who is also in need of acceptance, love and belonging. craziness! fun! extreme suffering! we love it!

[Moksha]

48 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

How is it possible? easy. from the blow of the hammer on your finger. for the perfectly made appearance that you have a body that can be damaged by external agents. but that got obsolete and we have invented something more fun to create a crazy duality.

So even when you are directly experiencing your infinite nature as the absolute, your body is absolutely real, as is your ability to feel pain? Or does it just appear to be real?

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

So even when you are directly experiencing your infinite nature as the absolute, your body is absolutely real, as is your ability to feel pain? Or does it just appear to be real?

 Real or appear being real is the same.  I'm not experiencing, I'm the experience. direct experience is reality. there is not an experiencer and a content that is experienced, there is the experience.  It can appear as someone typing on a telephone or as the absolute void, it's the same, it's always an experience. without experience there is no existence, and as you can see, there is experience and therefore existence.

absolute void is just as real as my phone. it is an experience. the absolute is experience and is total joy without limit, or total joy because it's no limit. that's what I am, only that if I identify with what is appearing now, they are all tribulations. a real shit. So I get out of this shit and I put myself in the point of view of being existence, which doesn't have a point of view, it's a point of view. It is this, now. So you have to break the limits that they have you locked in the character and become the movie. Difficult movement, a lot of attachment , traps

What I want, and it's inspired by Leo, is to penetrate the structure of this, to understand it to the fullest. because without understanding you are trapped

Edited May 8, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

For example, now I am in a park. I have taken 3 puffs of marijuana, I was writing all that mess above, and I have started to observe, and click, this moment is infinite. it does not have limits. Shit, writing this and thinking about it, it's got them again. Everything is designed to lock you in the finite appearance. the problem is that the finite appearance is shit and the infinite glory, and it's extremely difficult to be in the infinite apperance. a strange game. I'm  far of the full understanding of this, but I'd say that.shift from one side to another with psychedelics is the key 

the goal is to break the barrier between me and the experience and to merge with it completely.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[BipolarGrowth]

There is not a particular sensation of insanity. There is, however, the insanity of labeling a sensation as insanity. 

[Breakingthewall]

another time, much more deeper. this experience that is now, is a dance of freedom, of beauty, of love. It's all the love there can be, it's right here. that is the absolute. this now. and i don't understand it, not far . 

I just penetrated to the center of the thing, the heart that beats in this. alive, full, total. this moment is that, and that makes my tears come out and my humility increases 

the secret is to be able to say, truly, without reservations: I give myself, I give myself to this, to the now. completely. if you can do that, the now opens 

But it opens just a moment, because I'm not so able to give my self, so i create the barrier. It's a game, but I'm in love of the openess, and everyone would be in love if the openess happen at least 2 seconds. The pure wonder.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

Now I understand it a little more. It would be said that if the wonder is fully manifested, I disintegrate. you can't stand it. In order to have a dual experience, reality must be veiled. but why do this? what is the goal of this? How it works? but yes, as   @Moksha says, maybe the real substance of reality is too intense to be realized all time. Btw, I'm looking the sea and never in all my life have I seen such beauty as right now. purity, perfection in every form

Edited May 8, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[M A J I]

Madness simply means out of the mind. You can be out of the mind, falling below the mind – that’s where insanity starts. But you can also be out of the mind going beyond the mind – that’s where meditation starts. In one sense they are similar in that both are out of the mind. Hence one can feel, living in the beauty of the present moment, as if it is madness, because madness and meditation have a similarity but only on one point: both happen outside the mind. In every other sense they are different.

To go below the mind means to become unconscious. To go beyond the mind means to become superconscious. And the superconscious and unconscious are as distinct as two things can be, as far away from each other as there is possibility. They have nothing in common except that one point. Hence in the beginning every meditator feels that it is something like madness. But it is saner than your sanity. You have to wait a little, to become acquainted with the new territory of the world of meditation. Others may also think that you are mad, because sometimes you will be doing things like a madman. But the basic difference is that no madman ever acknowledges, ever accepts that he is mad. He refuses it vehemently. You can go to any madhouse, not a single madman will accept that he is mad.

But the meditator can accept it smiling. He is aware of the similarity. He can understand the outsider’s judgment, and he can accept it. He can see also that the action... for example, a meditator sometimes feels so blissful that you will see a smile on his face although there is no reason at all to smile. And we forgive people for being miserable without any reason, but we cannot forgive people for being so happy without any reason. We ask people, ”What is the cause? Why are you smiling?”

And a man who is experiencing something within himself, joyful, something immensely sweet – what can he say to you? And whatever he is going to say, you are not going to believe it, because it is not your experience. You can believe only if it is also your experience. Two meditators can sit silently and smile without asking each other why they are smiling. They can laugh, they can dance without asking each other why they are doing it.

The full read here https://meditation-zen7.blogspot.com/2013/02/osho-on-divine-madness-sanity-and.html

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, M A J I said:

Madness simply means out of the mind

Id say that madness means something as simple as lack of objectivity. there are many degrees of this, for example a slight degree is the one that always sees its political party as good and its adversary bad. He is not objective, he needs things to be one way and it distorts reality to suit its needs. A more serious case would be the one who believes that the CIA is after him, and reads any news in the newspaper and sees it as a coded message to secret agents who are going after him. He needs to believe that. the question is why? I would say that both the mild and the severe cannot bear the trauma that being human means. They cannot face their fragmentation, their loneliness and their lack of love, so they make up stories to avoid seeing reality directly. At the end all of us do that. All we are insane in the sense that we can't face god. God is too pure, too perfect. It's a hurricane of love that would kill us, so we made up stories

[Moksha]

16 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Now I understand it a little more. It would be said that if the wonder is fully manifested, I disintegrate. you can't stand it. In order to have a dual experience, reality must be veiled. but why do this? what is the goal of this? How it works? 

Exactly! The more direct the absolute is, the more the dream dissolves. The entire cosmos is only its imagination. The absolute is the essence of the cosmos, but it has to veil itself from itself in order to experience its creation.

There are infinite levels of the absolute realizing itself within its dream. As it surrenders the attachment of its awareness to the cosmos, and turns awareness inward, it deepens into its infinite nature.

Mystics see this. The absolute cannot be entirely realized within its dream. Its light is so intense that it dissolves every apparent boundary. The cosmos cannot contain its glory.

Many spiritual traditions prescribe wearing a veil when appearing before God, or that God must veil itself before revealing its glory. The meaning behind these practices and writings is deeper than many realize. For example, Exodus 33:

Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.”

And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”

Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock.

When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 

Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”

that's how it is. but at the same time, this moment is the absolute. perhaps it would be necessary to distinguish between absolute and god.

absolute is what has no opposite, or exterior, what is only and infinite. this moment is all of that, and yet I can realize its infinity, that is, i am infinity, and there is no problem, on the contrary, it is freedom, joy, depth.

but this moment is not only unlimited infinity, it is something else, and that something must be veiled. it is an infinite flame of love that just by insinuating itself will make you fall to your knees bathed in tears and will teach you humility, and if it were to open up completely, it would burn and disintegrate you. do you want to be disintegrated? no, since the experience is unfolding. what is the way now? this exact moment is god veiled . the veil is necessary so as not to burn yourself, but same time we are trying to break the veil. so? maybe the option of leo, explore the structure of the dream, understand the manifestation of god to understand god. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Moksha]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

this exact moment is god veiled .

Every experience in the cosmos is god veiled, in less or greater glory. It is god's essence, but it is inevitably and graciously indirect.

God, or the absolute, in its infinite glory is changeless, timeless, and boundaryless, beyond its cosmos. Existence is only a dark mirror in which god reflects on the experience of itself.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

Every experience in the cosmos is god veiled, in less or greater glory. It is god's essence, but it is inevitably and graciously indirect.

God, or the absolute, in its infinite glory is changeless, timeless, and boundaryless, beyond its cosmos. Existence is only a dark mirror in which god reflects on the experience of itself.

it's not that simple imo. the cosmos is just an idea, like everything. there is only one reality, this. now. nothing else is real, it is only real as an idea that appears now. the mind must be absolutely empty of ideas like "cosmos" or "changeless" if it is to have a chance of understanding. No one else can understand, only you. nothing that has been said has the slightest value, only what is directly understood here and now, focusing absolutely in this moment, so in the reality.  we will see

Edited May 9, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

it's not that simple imo. the cosmos is just an idea, like everything. there is only one reality, this. now. nothing else is real, it is only real as an idea that appears now. the mind must be absolutely empty of ideas like "cosmos" or "changeless" if it is to have a chance of understanding. No one else can understand, only you. nothing that has been said has the slightest value, only what is directly understood here and now, focusing absolutely in this moment, so in the reality.  we will see

Yes, I know from many conversations that you believe what you currently perceive is the only reality. I was hoping that your perspective may have broadened based on recent comments you've made 

The cosmos and your perception of it are not real. They are phenomenally convincing, but are bound by dualities within the dream. They are the cloak that the absolute wears in order to experience its imagination.

Beyond what you are currently experiencing, as the absolute masquerading within a form, is the unbridled absolute. When it directly realizes itself, you understand with perfect clarity. Beyond the conceptual mind, the absolute is changeless, it is timeless, and it is seamless.

I tried to share my direct realization of this earlier, but it is only words until the portal perpetually opens within you. It may begin as the tiniest peephole to the absolute, but it is stable beyond anything your mind or the cosmos can throw at it. It dispels every apparent boundary, with only the slightest attachment necessary to continue within the dream.

There is enough direct light coming through it to dissolve every misidentification in your mind. But first, it has to open, and remain open. When it does, you will understand what I mean.

[Breakingthewall]

46 minutes ago, Moksha said:

 

46 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Yes, I know from many conversations that you believe what you currently perceive is the only reality

Hehe i don't believe it, it's totally obvious. if you do not understand this it is impossible to understand anything. only your direct experience is real. Imagine you were a fetus. where would the cosmos be? what would you be? the cosmos is relative. relative means that it exists in relation to you. In other words, it only exists when it is in your direct experience. Sorry, not in your experience, because there is no you that experiences, you are the experience. it is essential to understand this. this experience is the absolute and only from it does understanding come. the absolute is veiled, but is this, there is nothing else, it is impossible, don't you understand? you will never, in eternity, come out of your direct experience. nor when you are god without veils. What does this mean? that direct experience has no "outside". does not exist! You see it? because direct experience is existence. damn, it's clear right?  

you have to forget all ideas except one, very useful: not two. just this in mind. not two. do you understand? There is nothing outside, there is only you. do a mental exercise, take this as absolute truth and focus on now. that is the only valid spirituality. you can focus on the now with psychedelics too, as there is no difference between psychedelics and sober, both are direct experience, so the absolute. The moment you think about the cosmos, or whatever, you create duality. nothing exists outside of you, that is first course of spirituality.  

46 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Beyond what you are currently experiencing, as the absolute masquerading within a form, is the unbridled absolute. When it directly realizes itself, you understand with perfect clarity. Beyond the conceptual mind, the absolute is changeless, it is timeless, and it is seamless.

So, explain that realization if you can and want. How the infinity can be changeless if it's unlimited? Changeless is a limitation. The absolute takes many faces, and all are real. But over all, the absolute is this, now. If you observe it carefully, you will realize that it's god. 

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Moksha]

@Breakingthewall Relative means the appearance of existence, not the unveiled absolute, which is beyond existence and non-existence. I realize this makes no sense to you, and that's ok.

The absolute within you has its own path to carve, as it has carved its path within me. Look forward to reunion when the clouds have cleared and the sun is in full glory. ☀️

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Relative means the appearance of existence,

Relative means in relation with anything. Absolute means that isn't in relation with anything. No more. 

Btw, you didn't explain how you realized that the absolute is changeless. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

@Moksha   

you don't realize what the dream is, it's a very difficult trick to see. a very serious effort is needed. I'm not saying you don't have a realization of the absolute, there are many ways to realize the absolute, many degrees, but for me it's important to realize what is this directly. I need to see it! because it is what I am. to see it you have to have a flexible, liquid mind. the mind that twists loses its limits, it is released. These are all fundamental steps, there are no shortcuts. 

We are talking about getting out of the dual delusion, of truly perceiving, cleanly, without deception. This is freedom, because let's see, you already are the absolute, but what good is it if you don't see it? If you are trapped in the illusion? Because, believe me, if you see two, you are sleeping. I'm sleep 97% of time, eh. Of course, you can feel the absolute while you are dreaming, but being awake is another level. Is the total openess. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Moksha]

@Breakingthewall I feel it's not helpful for us to discuss ideas. It's good that the absolute within realizes the value of liquidating the mind, to make space for its light. Continue that.

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Moksha said:

@Breakingthewall I feel it's not helpful for us to discuss ideas. It's good that the absolute within realizes the value of liquidating the mind, to make space for its light. Continue that.

Well, if you're not interested in sharpening your mind, this exercise doesn't make sense. But I'm addicted to this, so don't start ?