Don't Let Anyone Tell You Democrats Are Different Than Republicans

[Danioover9000]

@Hardkill

On 2023-05-21 at 4:01 PM, Hardkill said:

Exactly.

You know what? Instead of complaining that the Democrats aren’t doing enough or voting for a third party, which doesn’t work in America like it does in other countries that have a multi-party system such as Ireland or Scandinavia, why not create or join a movement on the ground that will help the Democrats gain enough support for more good policies to be passed by Congress?

   No I don't know, what is wrong with the Democrats not doing enough in the USA? And why does that not work in the USA but in other countries with multi-party systems like Ireland or Scandinavia? What is beneficial for the Democrats joining a movement on the ground?

[Leo Gura]

But Dems do act way more mature, so I'm not sure what yoy're whining about.

Every human organization has some corruption. You have to be realistic about that.

[thenondualtankie]

Leo, I'm curious, what the F is your roadmap for turning America into a conscious country? Just to vote in more Bidens? I agree with you that the Republicans are way worse, but it's still really shocking to me that you're giving the Dems this much credit.

Do you not agree that America needs massive transformation?

[trenton]

@Razard86 when you make the lesser of two evils argument, you appear to feel that both sides are a net negative on society. If I recall correctly, Leo in his conscious politics series mentioned that Democrat and Republican is a false choice. Both are wrong for their own unique reasons with the Republican party being more corrupt.

[Hardkill]

3 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Hardkill

   No I don't know, what is wrong with the Democrats not doing enough in the USA? And why does that not work in the USA but in other countries with multi-party systems like Ireland or Scandinavia? What is beneficial for the Democrats joining a movement on the ground?

I mean that in the US, third party votes are a complete waste of votes. They cannot be used to add on to any other major party ticket, not like in a multi-party system?

Now, if enough democrats, liberals, poor, working class, and people of racial minorities created a nationwide movement on stopping the rich and corporations from stealing endless amounts of money then that would probably generate enough pressure on Congress, the presidency, governors, state legislatures, and the courts to enact policies much needed liberal/progressive legislation for the country.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, thenondualtankie said:

Leo, I'm curious, what the F is your roadmap for turning America into a conscious country? Just to vote in more Bidens? I agree with you that the Republicans are way worse, but it's still really shocking to me that you're giving the Dems this much credit.

Do you not agree that America needs massive transformation?

Massive transformation comes slowly.

What else do you suggest? As you can clearly see, Progressives are not having many political victories. Yelling about it won't change it. The bottom line is that Progressives expect too much too fast.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Massive transformation comes slowly.

What else do you suggest? As you can clearly see, Progressives are not having many political victories. Yelling about it won't change it. The bottom line is that Progressives expect too much too fast.

It really does seem to be the case that if progressives want the level of transformation they seek for our country then we really are going to need have:

1. The supermajorities of liberals/progressives that presidents TR, WW, FDR, and FBJ had.

2. Much greater political bipartisanship consensus and unified political climate that TR, WW, FDR, and FBJ had.

3. Historic levels of violence in our country like in the Civil War, Gilded Age, Great Depression, and Civil Rights movement.

4. Extremely powerful nonviolent mass protests and civil disobedience like the Civil Rights movement or Abolition movement.

5. Liberal/progressive media outlets with political influence that rivals or surpasses all of the right-wing echo-chambers in America.

Plus, for extra push, we could use another brilliant and charismatic liberal/progressive president who is not too deep in the pockets of their corporate donors.

 

With the BLM riots, abnormal levels of mass shootings, occasional racial unrest, growing anger and resentment over the growing economic inequality problem in our country, increasing amount of calls for tackling climate change, it really is looking more and more like widespread riots in America are inevitable. I wonder how we should all prepare for that.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Hardkill

[UnlovingGod]

Politics is just inherently dualistic. Cant do anything about it, even if your conciouss about absolute solipsism. When you enter politics you enter dualism. Politics is dualism and vice versa.

[DocWatts]

Truth of the matter is that the US is struggling with a number of systemic issues which incentive bad actors to behave in terrible ways, because our political and economic institutions reward such behavior.

Antiquated and undemocratic political institutions in the US such as the Senate, Electoral College, and the Supreme Court make it easy for a political minority that's out of step with the rest of the country to have an outsized influence to set the agenda for the rest of the country. Even worse, the intersection of these antiquated institutions with Late Stage Capitalism has resulted in endemic legalized bribery, otherwise known as lobbying.

Additionally, profit driven media under Capitalism whose business model relies on emotionally triggering sensationalism is almost tailor made as a radicalization pipeline. Not only has this resulted in the collapse of a shared epistemilogy that's made it impossible to have a productive national discussion, it also gives bad actors plausible deniability as they encourage lone wolfs to commit acts of terroristic political violence

While the long term issues that the US faces are indeed a bipartisan failure, it's overwhelmingly the Republican Party that's pouring gas on this fire, as it's become an expert at exploiting these systemic problems in a self serving and destructive way.

In particular, here's some of what the Republican Party is doing that can't be said to be true for the Democratic Party:

• Encouraging political violence through the use of dog whistle rhetoric
• Widespread voter suppression
• Rolling back of basic civil and political rights
• Intentionally stoking unprocessed societal trauma (ie ethnic and religious grievances) as an avenue to wealth and political power
• Holding the US economy hostage by risking a catastrophic debt default as part of a political stunt
• Not only not addressing systemic problems like climate change and income inequality, but going out of their way to make these issues worse

This asymmetry isn't because the Democratic Party is composed of saints, it's just that their incentives for gaining and maintaining political power is far more aligned with the long term interests of the country than the Republicans.

Edited June 1, 2023 by DocWatts