It might actually be possible to REALLY drop attatchment.

[ActualizedJohn]

This is going to be a LOT right here.

backstory: my whole life I feel like I have never really been truly happy and always have said “when I get THIS thing I will be truly happy”, but when the thing comes it’s like a high for a little bit, and then I raise the bar of what will ACTUALLY make me happy, and the cycle repeats.

Today I was exceptionally upset. I had been in my house for three days straight and hadn’t really been doing much since I just graduated, and idk if it was just from being alone and my thoughts getting worse and worse, or if my feelings were ACTUALLY being validated, but I had been feeling like shit recently and have felt like she has been pulling away recently. Like I said Idk if she actually has been or if it’s just my thoughts building up and getting worse, but that’s how I felt. And I was just thinking all of these ideas about how I need to have a good relationship and I NEED to make sure she’s not cheating on me and I NEED to make sure we have sex and I NEED to make sure she is always 100% in love with me all the time and I NEED to make sure she’s constantly messaging me or else it makes me feel like she hates me and I get super depressed. I have always heard about how if you experience truth of no self it will end all suffering completely and it will end your attachments to external things such as thinking you NEED something in order to be whole and complete, but in reality I never thought it was possible, I never really believed it.

After this I was sitting in my shower and had like a 30% enlightenment so-self experience, which happens every so often because I did Leo’s guided contemplation for three years so I can sometimes just slip into enlightenment experiences, and it felt like all the sudden all of the pressure and tension and depression was RIPPED out of my head. Like LITERALLY my brain, like I felt my brain unflex.

And my first thought I had was “woahhhhh, this shouldn’t be possible. The only way I can be less depressed or ever loose depression is if I talk to my girl, make sure she loves me, has sex with me, I can be with her forever, and my life would collapse if I lost her. So therefore, the fact that I feel like I’m loosing depressed feelings is impossible”. But I was possible, and it was happening right then. It was like the first time I realized that maybe all the problems really WERE created by me, the blueprint of thinking I need someone to be whole and complete was created by me, and no amount of external validation from other people could actually get me there. I have an AMAZINGLY gorgeous girlfriend, and was recently looking at really old pictures of myself, and thought for a second “if 10 year old me saw pictures of my girlfriend now, he would loose his SHIT. He would say that there is NEVER a reason to be upset ever again and that I would never even HAVE the right to be upset ever again with a girlfriend like that, so WHY AM I SO DEPRESSED?”

So is it possible? I mean is it REALLY? Like is it REALLLLLLY possible. As in a true honest 100% possibility that if I become enlightened, I would reach full unconditional happiness? Feeling 100% happy, 0% depressed 24/7 and TRULY never need anything external outside of myself to feel whole and complete ever again? Or even more, is it true that no amount of external things that I gain will ever make me happy? For god sakes,I know my 10 year old self, and he would NEVER allow me the right to be upset ever again if he saw my current girlfriend.

Can any enlightened people confirm this? People who have shared experiences? Could this ACTUALLY be possible?

[Breakingthewall]

I don't know if it's possible, I think not, we are human. Could you be perfectly happy if you have to spend the rest of your life isolated without talking to anyone? Imagine the kind of person who could. how would his mind be? Is that detachment possible? Nobody here is even 10% of something like that.

[Razard86]

You cannot drop attachment in duality. To drop attachment is to not exist in duality. Duality is attachment. You are literally attached to a perspective. If you became completely detached you would die. The absolute does not know survival because it does not have a self. Knowledge only exists in duality. And absolute self knowledge only exists if you fully awaken. What you obtain is indifference. You want something but you don't care if you get it. This requires emotional mastery. Enlightenment does not hand you constant bliss for all eternity. What it hands you is increased self-awareness and constant wholeness. You feel complete and whole and enjoy solitude immensely.

But there is a catch. You see through all the egos games. If you speak from an Enlightened perspective you will not be understood. Every ego is afraid of absolute truth. You will also become less motivated temporarily because everything will feel like a waste of time. This is normal because you were too used to doing things to reach goals. The final stage is to do activities just for the pure joy. You start to walk the path of appreciation.

You can also start getting attached to trying to alleviate suffering but that will take years of practice because egos will blame you for their feelings and accuse you of being the source of their suffering.

They will demonize you and call you a victim blamer, arrogant, a narcissist, and a gaslighter. You will need to cultivate a deep compassionate patience should you choose to engage in helping others who suffer.

In short you discover that every ego is a perpetual victim with a superiority complex. The victimhood= the belief in bad, which comes from not feeling in control. The superiority= Comes from a desire for external validation and praise and a desire to be and do good. When an ego feels in control they feel good and powerful.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Razard86

[gettoefl]

attachment is a want becoming a need

i got to have this else life is not worth living

how to stop want becoming need?

for example to meditate every day means attachment

learn to go for periods of time without

benefit from everything, attach to nothing

[Breakingthewall]

22 hours ago, Razard86 said:

You cannot drop attachment in duality. To drop attachment is to not exist in duality. Duality is attachment. You are literally attached to a perspective. If you became completely detached you would die. The absolute does not know survival because it does not have a self. Knowledge only exists in duality. And absolute self knowledge only exists if you fully awaken. What you obtain is indifference. You want something but you don't care if you get it. This requires emotional mastery. Enlightenment does not hand you constant bliss for all eternity. What it hands you is increased self-awareness and constant wholeness. You feel complete and whole and enjoy solitude immensely.

But there is a catch. You see through all the egos games. If you speak from an Enlightened perspective you will not be understood. Every ego is afraid of absolute truth. You will also become less motivated temporarily because everything will feel like a waste of time. This is normal because you were too used to doing things to reach goals. The final stage is to do activities just for the pure joy. You start to walk the path of appreciation.

You can also start getting attached to trying to alleviate suffering but that will take years of practice because egos will blame you for their feelings and accuse you of being the source of their suffering.

They will demonize you and call you a victim blamer, arrogant, a narcissist, and a gaslighter. You will need to cultivate a deep compassionate patience should you choose to engage in helping others who suffer.

In short you discover that every ego is a perpetual victim with a superiority complex. The victimhood= the belief in bad, which comes from not feeling in control. The superiority= Comes from a desire for external validation and praise and a desire to be and do good. When an ego feels in control they feel good and powerful.

 

 

 

 

22 hours ago, Razard86 said:

 

Great post.

The absolute clarity is just nothing, transparency without end. Because there is not duality and without duality there is nothing, but even so, it's omniscience

Edited May 5, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[The0Self]

Or the attachment/need for something more than the appearance (and therefore truth, because nothing doesn’t lie) of loving relationship (which can involve literally anything including even betrayal or whatever else), can drop instead.

[Water by the River]

On 5.5.2023 at 2:08 AM, Razard86 said:

You cannot drop attachment in duality. To drop attachment is to not exist in duality. Duality is attachment. You are literally attached to a perspective. If you became completely detached you would die. The absolute does not know survival because it does not have a self. Knowledge only exists in duality. And absolute self knowledge only exists if you fully awaken. What you obtain is indifference. You want something but you don't care if you get it. This requires emotional mastery. Enlightenment does not hand you constant bliss for all eternity. What it hands you is increased self-awareness and constant wholeness. You feel complete and whole and enjoy solitude immensely.

But there is a catch. You see through all the egos games. If you speak from an Enlightened perspective you will not be understood. Every ego is afraid of absolute truth. You will also become less motivated temporarily because everything will feel like a waste of time. This is normal because you were too used to doing things to reach goals. The final stage is to do activities just for the pure joy. You start to walk the path of appreciation.

You can also start getting attached to trying to alleviate suffering but that will take years of practice because egos will blame you for their feelings and accuse you of being the source of their suffering.

They will demonize you and call you a victim blamer, arrogant, a narcissist, and a gaslighter. You will need to cultivate a deep compassionate patience should you choose to engage in helping others who suffer.

In short you discover that every ego is a perpetual victim with a superiority complex. The victimhood= the belief in bad, which comes from not feeling in control. The superiority= Comes from a desire for external validation and praise and a desire to be and do good. When an ego feels in control they feel good and powerful.

Nice post.  

Let me add some musings from my perspective.

>But there is a catch. You see through all the egos games. If you speak from an Enlightened perspective you will not be understood. Every ego is afraid of absolute truth.

Yes. The separation/separate self/Ego HAS to be scared by/avoid the truth, by definition.  Else it would end soon.... Not so good for a nice, long, interesting game/show/Lila....

• But at the same time, every separate being is deeply drawn back and attracted by its True Nature, which fragrence/bliss it never fully forgot, and only partly manages to avoid, closing down to this bliss and the following various projects to get it back via a variety of experiences  .
• And these two contradicting drives (Pull of Illusion and Pull of Truth) drive the separate self sometimes quite nuts... 

>The final stage is to do activities just for the pure joy. You start to walk the path of appreciation.

Yes. One couldn't do different. And it couldn't work different than that.

• Nothing left to force oneself to do something one doesn't want. No more internal conflicts, conflicting motivations.
• Luckily, if you have made it this far, your motivations are normally aligned with the Universe, because you have understood and trained compassion for a long time to stabilize resting in your True Nature/Awakening, see below.

>You can also start getting attached to trying to alleviate suffering but that will take years of practice because egos will blame you for their feelings and accuse you of being the source of their suffering. They will demonize you and call you a victim blamer, arrogant, a narcissist, and a gaslighter. You will need to cultivate a deep compassionate patience should you choose to engage in helping others who suffer.

Wise words. That is why in all Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhist training systems compassion has a nearly (or fully) equal status to the training of wisdom, transcendence and Awakening. It is considered as an equal companion, laying the foundation, of wisdom/transcendence/Awakening/Enlightenment. Strange, is it, if the same systems consider all the be an Illusion, a magic show? So why do they do that?

• In relative reality (our life), one can not maintain stabilized Awakening (let alone Enlightenment), when you are constantly annoyed by the Truth-avoidance-mechanisms of ones fellow separate-selves, and react with negative emotions towards that. These negative emotions/reactions do shut down ones nondual experience of the visual field being groundless mere appearances hoving in Infinite Nothingness. 
  • And more easily to understand: They shut down ones love, which is the same as the acceptence of the here and now, which is the only thing happening/being imagined right now, and actually the True You in a nondual way.
  • So these emotions are just incompatible with keeping the nondual realization ongoing, an auto-immune-reaction on parts of your own True Being, cutting nonduality in two creating duality. And that doesn't... feel good . At least my experience. And that of many others. 
    • By the way, if something happening requires immideate "not-accepting"-action, like running away from an attacking bear, that is of course also done. Staying open and fearless, and not constricting the love/acceptence of this present moment doesn't exclude acting wisely. It is not so wise and smart to serve as food for the attacking bear. There are better things to do with your separate-self-vehicle than that....
      • Only Empty Mirrors are stupid enough to get their frames teared down by confused attacking bears, see my Signature of the post below, but that is another story as explained in the Job Profile for Empty Mirrors. 
    • My theory (experience) is that these "less-than-loving", non-so-compassionate, non accepting/closing down emotions cut off the Endohuasca-system: https://dmtquest.org/endohuasca-magic/ ,
      • solidifying the mere-appearance infinite nondual field of lucid world-arisings hovering in infinite Nothingness, made out of Nothingness as its essence, and making it solid&external or appearing "out there", duality: the "normal" state of the separate self, often less than loving, imprisoned in duality most or all of the time.
• So it is impossible to live in a stabilized Awakening (let alone Enlightenment) without deep compassion for other not yet realized beings. You can not blame an acorn for not being an oak tree yet. That would be rather stupid. All acorns got and are Buddha-Nature (or can realize their potential by becoming an oak tree). 
  • It is for example not the way society raises children, which is a similiar topic. We don't blame children for not being adults yet, but acknowledge their potential of being adults themselves, and raise them up to that potential.
  • Every time I write Selling Water by the River, it is to acknowledge by the way that what is being doing is
    • Illusion.
      • But a nice one! What else is there to do? And since there is only appearance/illusion, there is no difference between reality and appearing illusion in some way. And Karma/cause effect fully works/holds, works like a clockwork, driven by infinite intelligence. Even if its only imagined...
    • that "I" am "selling" something that is freely available to all (the Water of the River). Actually, there is only the Water of the River.
    • That the water of the River is the Buddha Nature of every being, the Nothingness that is the essence of all of Reality. So nothing that could be superior to anything else at the end of the day...
    • Actually, there are no others to safe. And yet, that is what tends to appear to happen normally. And should happen on a relative level, as it is in the nature of things...
      • And that is paradoxical from before the Gateless Gate, but not afterwards... It is only the True You manifesting in endless perspectives.... sometimes appearing (only appearing) confused in some mindstreams, and in some not. The "Core" never gets confused, since it is Nothing(-ness). It contains the confused or unconfused mind-stream arisings.

 

And Maya is the great seductress (hey, "somebody" has to orchestrate the illusion-show. Else it wouldn't be there! ) but there are even more elements build into our reality to guide souls back to their true nature. One of the mightiest and most powerful ones are probably:

• What is more attractive? An Ego/separate self preaching arrogantly with self-importance and narcissism from upon high, or
• a being radiating love, compassion and wisdom/bliss?
  • and guess what feels better for the being doing that 
• why does every being yearn for bliss/peace, intuiting that that is what one really is?

In a practical experience, compassion/love

• increases ones realtive happiness in every way.
  • A happy, integrated "relative" life, delivering on the stages of Maslow what the separate self need to thrive and not scream for attention most of the time,
  • resulting in a separate self that is much more easy to transcend than a drama-show-separate-self, that constantly requires attention and maintenance, and suffers lack on the lower levels of Maslows pyramid (financials&job, friends/partner, health, security needs, belonging-needs, self-esteem, self-actualization...)
• And also speedens up self-realization significantly, or even enabling it, and stabilizes it.
  • That even shows in the fact that countless studies asking humans about their deepest/strongest sources of relative happiness in life is human connection (which is based in large parts on love/compassion, or resonating deeply with "another" soul, seeing and being seen, which then yields natural compassion out of that resonance. At least if its done in a healthy way).

Selling Water by the River

 

PS: Ken Wilber: Wake up, Grow Up, Show Up

Edited May 6, 2023 by Water by the River