Is it possible that psychedelics are Leo's bias?

[Yimpa]

11 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You can have 1000 very deep awakening experiences, but it will still not stick unless you fully surrender all notions of control, all notions of identity, effectively your entire life.

Conversely, it is also possible to discover that all control comes from God, all identities are You, and your entire life is Reality. 

[Carl-Richard]

17 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Conversely, it is also possible to discover that all control comes from God, all identities are You, and your entire life is Reality. 

That is only when you're on the other side. Before that, it's just conjecture. It's part of the frameworks of beliefs and goals I'm talking about.

[Jodistrict]

All the spiritual traditions agree that a prerequisite to awakening (or connection with God) requires a purification process. This is the work of transcending the lower self.  Sufism has the Tazkiyatun Nafs.  In Christianity, there is sanctification.  In Hinduism, Karma Yoga.  In the Amazon, they equate purification with vomiting, coming from a jungle environment, and they have dozens of plant medicines to do this.  It is considered to be even more important than taking ayahuasca. 

If you have a powerful 5-meo experience where you experience non duality, but then the next day you blow up because someone stepped in front of you in line, then what did you actually experience? What good did it do since you are still back in ego?  Is this evidence that is was a false experience or a simulation?  

In a spiritual journey, the soul becomes more calm after years of letting go, transcending into higher vibrations.  Can we shortcut the work with psychedelics?  Is the ego that easily dislodged?  Observation of humans tells us no.   Psychedelics gives you a temporary “get out of jail” card, but in the morning you go back to prison.  Getting out permanently has its own time and rhythm and can’t be rushed.   I’m a completely different person now than I was four years ago, but it took time. 
 

[Yimpa]

32 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

All the spiritual traditions agree that a prerequisite to awakening (or connection with God) requires a purification process.

 

33 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

Can we shortcut the work with psychedelics?  Is the ego that easily dislodged?  Observation of humans tells us no.   Psychedelics gives you a temporary “get out of jail” card, but in the morning you go back to prison.  Getting out permanently has its own time and rhythm and can’t be rushed.   I’m a completely different person now than I was four years ago, but it took time. 

I can say from my experience that quitting addiction and processing trauma is leagues more difficult than any of my psychedelic trips. 

However, I also wouldn’t been able to do any of that had it not been for psychedelics. 

Trust me, I’ve tried a handful of SSRIs and worked with low quality therapists. 

Psychedelics and working with high conscious healers is the way to go. 

[M A J I]

7 hours ago, OBEler said:

@M A J I Yeah self is the dominating energy, all else is secondary. Great 

But you still need psychedelics to reach these states like you still need money to buy a car. 

It's like you say you could materialize a super car without money. Because you are the dominating energy. Good luck with that thinking 

I have experience such states naturally, I was born with AIWS I've had psychedelic experiences no psychedelic substance has ever replicated. Meditation allowed me to stabilize everything. As a child I was always out of body/multidimensional experiences often. Physics overrides thinking. Just because you haven't gone as deep into meditation or your king leo or friends online doesn't mean its not possible. I know real yogis, real shamans, real masters who know otherwise. They been mastering these realms since birth.

Edited May 4, 2023 by M A J I

[Yimpa]

32 minutes ago, M A J I said:

I have experience such states naturally

Do you eat fast food? 

[M A J I]

37 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Do you eat fast food? 

No not for many years. Those 'chemicals' in (fast/fake foods) prevent the full activation and function of the pineal(1st eye) and other important glands for higher conscious abilities and psychic potential.

[M A J I]

3 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

All the spiritual traditions agree that a prerequisite to awakening (or connection with God) requires a purification process. This is the work of transcending the lower self.  Sufism has the Tazkiyatun Nafs.  In Christianity, there is sanctification.  In Hinduism, Karma Yoga.  In the Amazon, they equate purification with vomiting, coming from a jungle environment, and they have dozens of plant medicines to do this.  It is considered to be even more important than taking ayahuasca. 

If you have a powerful 5-meo experience where you experience non duality, but then the next day you blow up because someone stepped in front of you in line, then what did you actually experience? What good did it do since you are still back in ego?  Is this evidence that is was a false experience or a simulation?  

In a spiritual journey, the soul becomes more calm after years of letting go, transcending into higher vibrations.  Can we shortcut the work with psychedelics?  Is the ego that easily dislodged?  Observation of humans tells us no.   Psychedelics gives you a temporary “get out of jail” card, but in the morning you go back to prison.  Getting out permanently has its own time and rhythm and can’t be rushed.   I’m a completely different person now than I was four years ago, but it took time. 
 

Well said, yes when we take such substances it accelerates things, often prematurely, but then because you haven't got there naturally, you must come down to "integrate", and as you come back down the (tests/challenges) that will naturally arise within the coming days, weeks, months ect... which act as 'cosmic indicators' to see if you are responsible and worthy to carry that vibration onto your day to day life and that you have learned your lessons.

If you get "triggered" then you repeat the class and nothing has been gained really but you are still in the same cycle. Its about how well you can acclimate to the greater truth you have realized and many fall back because they never got there naturally, whereas if you done a lot of deep inner-work, you will find the experience stick and last much more effectively and with each experience you are returning more and more back to Self as long as you do not "resist" the change in vibration/frequency.

So yes most are not ready to Embody such Truth so they will fall off quickly, but some can make use of them then rarely need them again and find that less becomes more. If we actually allow the time/space to integrate between experiences, we will eventually return to the same states naturally if you can surrender that deeply.

Edited May 4, 2023 by M A J I

[BlessedLion]

9 hours ago, FlyingMan said:

Leo is a fool for calling ALL of these great masters fools.  Like, seriously, think about it.  These are some of the most exceptional human beings to ever live.  They are brilliant, passionate, dedicated people with full open hearts and have put lifetimes of work into their practices, far far beyond what Leo has ever done.  They have unraveled the self down to its microscopic core, and found there what cannot be spoken of.  Leo does a lot of speaking, but never addresses how what he calls "advanced" is just another rat race, just another seeking for MORE MORE MORE, and a total denial of the actual work required to release the suffering and separation that fabricates this human condition.  He hand waves the entire spiritual journey, simply saying he's "superior".  This is patently ridiculous, and no matter how much you want to believe him (because our egos love a narcissist--we are desperate to think someone else KNOWS what is up because we sure as hell don't), it doesn't change the fact that it is absurd to deny thousands of years of wisdom.  All you really need to do is look at Leo and look at someone like Adyashanti, and ask yourself who you'd rather be.  Leo is contracted, angry, hateful, spiteful, jealous, arrogant, and frankly an asshole.  He talks a lot about Love but displays very little of it, for others or for himself.  He glorifies the conceptual maze in practice--an implicit hypocrisy of the highest magnitude.  If you love Leo, you're just lost in ego, I'm sorry.  Live where you fear to live.  I hope you find the way out.

Well put. I mostly agree with you. But also, you can't discount Leo's work and exceptional way of explaining these concepts and breaking through all the bullshit. One thing i appreciate about him is he gives you the answers straight up with no watering down. 

 

But as far as his ego goes and putting down all these great masters paths and practices...that's another story

[BlessedLion]

9 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

Arbitrary duality, presuming psychedelics are "outside" of and foreign to "yourself"

Try psychs and see for yourself. Don't rely on any of our opinions

Well, that's technically true but I think you know what I mean here. 

I've done many trips. Around 80. They were foundational to my understanding. But I think there's a point where you drop them

[BlessedLion]

2 hours ago, M A J I said:

Well said, yes when we take such substances it accelerates things, often prematurely, but then because you haven't got there naturally, you must come down to "integrate", and as you come back down the (tests/challenges) that will naturally arise within the coming days, weeks, months ect... which act as 'cosmic indicators' to see if you are responsible and worthy to carry that vibration onto your day to day life and that you have learned your lessons.

If you get "triggered" then you repeat the class and nothing has been gained really but you are still in the same cycle. Its about how well you can acclimate to the greater truth you have realized and many fall back because they never got there naturally, whereas if you done a lot of deep inner-work, you will find the experience stick and last much more effectively and with each experience you are returning more and more back to Self as long as you do not "resist" the change in vibration/frequency.

So yes most are not ready to Embody such Truth so they will fall off quickly, but some can make use of them then rarely need them again and find that less becomes more. If we actually allow the time/space to integrate between experiences, we will eventually return to the same states naturally if you can surrender that deeply.

Are you channeling this information or something? That's spot on!

 

Everytime I have a major psychedelic breakthrough in the past, life threw massive challenges and suffering my way when i tried to maintain that state, and i failed, fell for it, each time. 

[M A J I]

@BlessedLion I guess you could say that, I am channeling in Source energy This is what I have observed being in deep contemplation with psychedelics and observing the following days, weeks and months afterwards. My history of solitude and meditation is my foundation and ground from which I am able to perceive well and not be shaken too much by them.

Edited May 4, 2023 by M A J I

[Israfil]

6 hours ago, M A J I said:

I guess you could say that, I am channeling in Source energy This is what I have observed being in deep contemplation with psychedelics and observing the following days, weeks and months afterwards. My history of solitude and meditation is my foundation and ground from which I am able to perceive well and not be shaken too much by them.

Ram Dass still made use of psychedelics after his spiritual training. Do you still combine approaches or solely meditate and contemplate?

[Grateful Dead]

20 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

 Psychedelics =  add new memory to memory store. 

Hm, that's one way to see it. For me, my life has become a trip. That's not something I have to remember. 

20 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

But the actual change work is being done after the trip.

No, often there is some serious work to be done on the trip too. And sometimes no integration work is needed but that’s rare in my experience.

[BlessedLion]

5 hours ago, acidgoofy said:

Hm, that's one way to see it. For me, my life has become a trip. That's not something I have to remember. 

On 5/3/2023 at 0:20 PM, Jodistrict said:

For sure, if psychedelics taught me anything it's that life is the strongest psychedelic of them all. It's a journey, it's magical and it's beautiful 

I don't want to discount psychedelics, I just feel that meditation can be equally as powerful

[M A J I]

12 hours ago, Israfil said:

Ram Dass still made use of psychedelics after his spiritual training. Do you still combine approaches or solely meditate and contemplate?

As a shamanic practitioner, man of medicine and natural therapies I am often (hosting) more so for others these days unto which I pair both sides and bring in my expertise in meditation and yoga to the table that helps those better understand and integrate their experiences. I also incorporate sound healing by didgeridoo, drum and rattles that greatly assist in healing work and act as vibrational therapy for DNA recalibration.

From time to time when I feel the call I go into the mountains I dive deep into the medicine that I will be hosting for others shortly after and immerse myself within the teacher/planet and then I can more greatly represent the medicine itself and act as a guide and space holder and channel the medicine itself.

It seems this is occurring less and less often as I integrate the medicines more and can see that soon enough I will no longer need to.

Edited May 5, 2023 by M A J I

[Grateful Dead]

12 hours ago, BlessedLion said:

For sure, if psychedelics taught me anything it's that life is the strongest psychedelic of them all. It's a journey, it's magical and it's beautiful 

I don't want to discount psychedelics, I just feel that meditation can be equally as powerful

I get it man and I think that's true, in a way. But you can also easily fool yourself with meditation and it becomes something that keeps you stuck. It's like if I just keep meditating and never use psychedelics again, I'll have a much easier time maintaining that comfortable, blissful state. But that is a trap in my opinion because little progress is made from such a place. The real transformation happens when you say fuck it and destroy everything for the sake of truth. And of course, it's easy to fool yourself with psychedelics, too. This is all very tricky and complicated...

Maybe it's wrong to frame it as a trap, that's just how I see it. In the end I think psychedelics speed up the whole process and I guess some people don't want that.

[thierry]

If you want to you can take Psychedelics until there is no more Psychedelics, no Biased. 
Problem solved

[Yimpa]

2 hours ago, thierry said:

If you want to you can take Psychedelics until there is no more Psychedelics, no Biased. 
Problem solved

Problem avoided.

[BlessedLion]

9 hours ago, acidgoofy said:

This is all very tricky and complicated.

That's for sure. 

I hear you man, and appreciate the insight. In my opinion, there is a point where you just fully trust and feel God at all times. Even in the darkness. It's like a full surrender to life, not just a trip. 

Ture, it unfolds at a slower pace, but once there it's kinda like just watching a movie and deep down you know you are held and it's all good.

Is this staying in comfort? 

Is this delusion? 

I am not sure, but it feels right. At least for now. 

I will certainly do psychedelics in the future, done correctly, they are pure love. But for now, this is the wave i'm on