How do you know you are imagining everything?

[davecraw]

What is the evidence in your experience that your entire expereince is imaginary and not real?

[thierry]

Cause it could not be otherwise. How do you want it to be real ? Where could the realness take place ? In the end it is just two words but the reason why it is more appropriate to say this is imaginary is cause there is actually no space where any of this things is happening. 

[davecraw]

27 minutes ago, thierry said:

Cause it could not be otherwise. How do you want it to be real ? Where could the realness take place ? In the end it is just two words but the reason why it is more appropriate to say this is imaginary is cause there is actually no space where any of this things is happening. 

What do you mean by real? What are the criteria that something must meet to be real?

[Shin]

58 minutes ago, davecraw said:

What is the evidence in your experience that your entire expereince is imaginary and not real?

The evidence is the raw feeling of knowing it.

Not knowing as a concept, but as real as feeling your hand right now (you don't need an evidence for that).

Even more real than that, infinitely more.

 

An evidence is just a concept in your head, so no evidence ever will suffice to prove you that.

The only evidence that would be enough, is directly being imagination itself, which you are, you just delude yourself you aren't.

 

[Carl-Richard]

If you observe what is happening without labeling it, you'll see that it's is just a big spontaneous happening, which is exactly like imagination: spontaneous creativity without any true origin. From this perspective, it sounds more valid to say that everything is imaginary, because there is no true "ground" from which things are arising out from. But this is also just a linguistic preference. You could describe it as "groundless" or "empty" or "nothing", or choose to not describe it at all.

That said, if you want to start labeling what is happening, you can start to make distinctions between things like "real" and "not real". For example, people will often call something not real if it's not shared among other people. If you're seeing pink elephants and nobody else are, they will tell you that it's not real. This is in fact where you get concepts like objective/physical reality: there seems to be a shared underlying ground from which a great amount of things are arising out from. But the mistake would be to think that this "shared ground" is nothing more than a label, just like "real" and "people".

Edited May 2, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Shin]

Llike Carl said, imagination is not what you think it is right now.

Right now there is a split in your mind, two concepts, one that there are real things, one that some things aren't real.

There is a third option, which is the truth, and it's that everything is both real and imaginary, and this you cannot ever understand until you awaken.

 

When we use the word imagination, it is only because we have to use a word to speak, but in truth, no word can express what we're talking about.

The reason so many teachers use the expression "life is a dream", and "wake up from life", are also weak ways to express the truth, and necessary leads to delusion from seekers.

They are just using those words to guide your intuition towards what is true, which would be the real answer that nobody could ever transmit to you, but you.

 

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of communication, cause the ego can take this expression of "life is a dream" and fuck up his entire life because "nothing matters then".

Well yeah in a sense, nothing matters, which is exactly why everything can be amazing, but that makes no sense if you're "dreaming" too !

 

[BlueOak]

Nothing has or ever will exist in your mind, that isn't in your mind. Everything you see, taste, touch etc must be in your mind for you to know about it. The mind is everything that you will ever experience.

You can be larger, smaller, blissed out, or depressed as hell, and all of that is in your own mind, represented to you by you and observed by you.

[BlueOak]

Oh and that other thing anyone wants to tell me about I haven't seen, well its represented in my mind the second it's spoken about.

[davecraw]

4 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

Oh and that other thing anyone wants to tell me about I haven't seen, well its represented in my mind the second it's spoken about.

Is it based on something beyond your mind and if not why? For example, this response is represented in your mind. Is its source beyond your mind and if not why?

[thierry]

1 hour ago, davecraw said:

What do you mean by real? What are the criteria that something must meet to be real?

Obviously here I mean what is not

[Breakingthewall]

my evidence is to realize that reality is infinite and to embrace infinity. this makes you realize that reality is absolute, it is one, and there is nothing outside. it does not exist outside of infinity because infinity has no limits. therefore, you, that is, me, are infinite. only I exist, since I am and what is is infinite. So, if I see a tree in the street, who could have created it, if not me? 

On the other hand, if I am absolute, as is the case, and there is nothing outside of me, my direct experience is absolute. In fact, it's not "my" direct experience, i am the direct experience with an apparent me inside, but it's an illusion, i am the whole thing. So, only the direct experience exists, so that tree exists only because it's in the direct experience. At the moment it isn't, it doesn't exist, so it's imaginary, like everything else.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Shin]

1 hour ago, davecraw said:

What do you mean by real? What are the criteria that something must meet to be real?

Anything you imagine is real, just not the definition of real you have right now.

 

When you dreamed last night, did you ask yourself if you were dreaming, or were you thinking it was real ?

Probably real yes ? Well now you say it's not.

Make up your mind

[davecraw]

51 minutes ago, thierry said:

Obviously here I mean what is not

But if something were to be real what criteria would it have to meet in your mind?

[davecraw]

56 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

my evidence is to realize that reality is infinite and to embrace infinity. this makes you realize that reality is absolute, it is one, and there is nothing outside. it does not exist outside of infinity because infinity has no limits. therefore, you, that is, me, are infinite. only I exist, since I am and what is is infinite. So, if I see a tree in the street, who could have created it, if not me? 

On the other hand, if I am absolute, as is the case, and there is nothing outside of me, my direct experience is absolute. In fact, it's not "my" direct experience, i am the direct experience with an apparent me inside, but it's an illusion, i am the whole thing. So, only the direct experience exists, so that tree exists only because it's in the direct experience. At the moment it isn't, it doesn't exist, so it's imaginary, like everything else.

Why do you identify with the thing you're experiecning? Why are you sure that you are not beyond your experience?

Edited May 2, 2023 by davecraw

[davecraw]

43 minutes ago, Shin said:

Anything you imagine is real, just not the definition of real you have right now.

 

When you dreamed last night, did you ask yourself if you were dreaming, or were you thinking it was real ?

Probably real yes ? Well now you say it's not.

Make up your mind

Why have you redefined real things to be thing that you imagine? 

[Breakingthewall]

reality is pure magic that is being formed right now out of nothing, with all its perfectly coherent history. it is something extremely strange.  

the coherent story is being formed right now out of nothing. Why make this trap and get lost in it? to have a bad time in a maze? masochism? a joke? hard to understand  

 

It's strange to realize this because you think: whatever I do in this story doesn't make the slightest sense. why do anything? if they are only forms that appear. but you have to keep doing.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Hojo]

Your brain is telling yourself an imaginary story. Your thoughts feelings emotion can be see as illusory. In the first image that is what life is normally to be seen as. But from other states it can be see as the second. Where you are just a screen and anything but the screen you are witnessing is imaginary. Even the story you are telling yourself about how the screen came into existence.

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Hojo

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, davecraw said:

Why do you identify with the thing you're experiecning? Why are you sure that you are not beyond your experience?

Because i realized that limits are imaginary. This is the infinity, and I'm talking to myself, it's all a trick, but you can't understand it from within the trick, you have to get out of it, and once you get out, there are no others, they are an impossible. then the trick sucks you in again and the others are real again. the fucking trick is very well done and extremely difficult to understand

[thierry]

1 hour ago, davecraw said:

But if something were to be real what criteria would it have to meet in your mind?

Thank you ?

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Hojo said:

Where you are just a screen and anything but the screen you are witnessing is imaginary. Even the story you are telling yourself about how the screen came into existence.

What could be the purpose of all this?