Transgenderism and transrace

[DrugsBunny]

@Israfil First, you incorrectly declare that the article does not compare people not using puberty blockers (implying you read the whole thing, as you claimed to have read the "entire" previous study) then once it's shown that the article does compare both groups, your next reflexive defensive error is highlighting the following quote:

1 hour ago, Israfil said:

it is plausible that those without suicidal ideation had better mental health when seeking care and thus were more likely to be considered eligible for pubertal suppression

All of this still falls under gender affirming care. Nothing has changed.

It cannot be confidently declared that puberty blockers are the sole cause of better mental health, I never said it was. But It's undeniable that the overall process of gender affirming care, including the possibility of using puberty blockers, is the explicit cause of these favorable health outcomes.

1 hour ago, Israfil said:

I'm not denying that gender-affirming treatment is beneficial to trans people. What I'm pointing out is that I don't think that a 13-year-old person is mature enough to make this decision.

I already addressed this, but predictably you chose not to respond. 

"Gender affirming care, a scientifically substantiated and highly cautious medical process, is not so embarrassingly reckless that it simply affords any kid with sex reassignment surgery merely because "they say they want to"... ?? There is extensive psychological screening and laborious safety precautions that go into assuring a beneficial decision can be made. "

It's as if you actually think that some boy somewhere opts for a pink icing donut over a blue one, and immediately a horde of indoctrinated leftists storms their front door with a rusty meat cleaver to castrate some innocent child and hoist up their dismembered privates as a trophy of trans acceptance... It doesn't work that way, the process is strenuous, and the child is not a final authority on the ultimate decision.

Some people, (mostly adult males) do not have the ideal facial/body structure to sufficiently 'pass' as their preferred gender, which obviously makes an earlier transition the more favorable approach. 

The facts are incontrovertible, gender affirming care is the most feasible solution to addressing gender dysphoria case closed.

[Leo Gura]

@DrugsBunny The trap you're falling into is that you preceive any questioning of this trans phenomena as an attack. But since it is a new phenomena, it requires lots of questioning. You cannot change something as fundamental as gender and not expect people to question it. That's an absurd expectation. Calling everyone a transphobe for having questions is not an intelligent or workable position.

People are legitamtely freaked out by this trans stuff. Because when you see a woman with a beard, it's fucking weird. And no amount of logic or studies changes that.

If your son comes to you and says he wants to be a girl, you should rightly be concerned. Because that's a serious obstacle to his survival. And none of your woke progressive self-righteousness changes that. To be encouraging such behavior is not wise.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Leo Gura

[DrugsBunny]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But since it is a new phenomena, it requires lots of questioning.

It's existed for over 100 years, multiple generations, and surprise, surprise -- had its most notable opposition under Nazi Germany's oppressive ruling. How long are we supposed to excuse repugnant ignorance, and at what cost?

There is a significant elevation in systematic discrimination towards trans people today, and it is NOT a stretch to call it genocidal ideation considering the INSANE anti-trans bills that are being proposed.

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

People are legitamtely freaked out by this trans stuff. Because when you see a woman with a beard, it's fucking weird. And no amount of logic or studies changes that.

There is obviously a level of incongruity that is evoked by less 'passable' transgender people, but understand you're admitting that your disgust response plays a role in your political regard towards the demographic as a whole, which is by definition transphobia. You can perhaps make a case that calling people transphobic will not fare well in persuading them, but don't use this as an excuse to dismiss trans advocacy as a whole simply because more accepting people are unsympathetic towards your prejudice. 

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If your son comes to you and says he wants to be a girl, you should rightly be concerned. 

Are you serious? Yeah obviously, it's a serious affliction that can lead to suicide. I don't understand why you would say this.. Of course it warrants concern, that's why I advocate for gender affirming care... This is just -- I'm so disappointed in your logic lately, just wow.

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

To be encouraging such behavior is not wise.

-___- has it ever occurred to you that fuck you.. 

I say that in jest, no ban hammer needed; understand I find it extremely dishonest that you're framing it this way, and it's particularly frustrating coming from the founder of Actualized who everyone here has at least some reverence and respect towards, which lends undue credence to your words when it is not earned in this case.

Nobody is encouraging people to undergo the extremely stigmatizing process of sex reassignment surgery on a whim. All I have done is cite studies demonstrating the objective truth that gender affirming care leads to positive mental health outcomes for people suffering from gender dysphoria. I seriously hate that you would frame it this way, it's like, forreal, you seriously have some unchecked biases. 

[Godhead]

@DrugsBunny I'm unsure whether to admire or pity your willingness to engage with these half-thought-out opinions.

[DrugsBunny]

39 minutes ago, Godhead said:

I'm unsure whether to admire or pity your willingness to engage with these half-thought-out opinions.

My perspective is substantiated with extensive scientific data, a process perhaps beyond your comprehension. 

Imagine being the last pawn of a human centipede, but in your case it's an intellectual downpour of regurgitated bigotry until it eventually reaches its final vessel, @Godhead who himself cannot even muster a semblance of the original excrement's quality, so he just settles for baseless insults as he has no substance to put forth as an actual counter-argument.

[Godhead]

I think you misread what I wrote lol. I was commenting on your willingness to debate on here against foolish opinion. I appreciate the creative insult though ahaha.

[DrugsBunny]

@Godhead I was bound to take an L eventually.

Sincere apologies; I am very used to being maligned in regards to this topic, and your language, I think you would admit, is a bit difficult to distinguish from an attack as it was worded.

 

[Leo Gura]

@DrugsBunny Stop playing some martyr here.

Your attachment to this trans shit is making you stupid.

Edited May 14, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Danioover9000]

@JJfromSwitzerland

On 2023-05-02 at 2:04 PM, JJfromSwitzerland said:

Why is it widely accepted to change your gender but not your race?

I saw some people in the internet who identify with a different race than their born with and they face a lot of hate whereas people who change gender face support.

Isn't it the same thing in a way?

You don't wanna be what you are basically.

   Hey OP, how are you lately? Has this thread answered your questions? Never imagined it would get this heated?

[Danioover9000]

@Roy

21 hours ago, Roy said:

Don't mistake my silence and ignoring as lack of having a response or argument. I just don't feel the need to give you the time of day, nor that you deserve basic respect in our exchanges because at this point I think you're a clown and from your very first message you were mean.

I'm too busy of a person and have too many important things to accomplish every day to expend energy on this kind of thing.

   I think this thread has served it's purpose, and feel that we're just beating a dead horse at this point. Maybe we should lock the thread?

[Danioover9000]

@RebornConsciousness

17 minutes ago, RebornConsciousness said:

The fact that you've been viewing this whole debate as something you can win or lose at, is so cringe

   Do you feel that we've already discussed everything here?

[Danioover9000]

@RebornConsciousness

1 hour ago, RebornConsciousness said:

I mean, I thought the discussion would be a little more multidimensional than "I support trans rights and their access to gender reassignment surgery, but we should exercise some caution cause there is an evidence it could be potentially dangerously missused, and it shouldn't be accessed by children" on one side, and "NO YOU ARE WRONG BECAUSE OF XYZ EVIDENCE!! SCIENCE IS INFALLIBLE, YOU TRANSPHOBES!!" on the other. I thought there's gonna be more shades of grey than just black and white.

   Like 50 Shades darker?

[LSD-Rumi]

13 hours ago, DrugsBunny said:

My perspective is substantiated with extensive scientific data, a process perhaps beyond your comprehension. 

Imagine being the last pawn of a human centipede, but in your case it's an intellectual downpour of regurgitated bigotry until it eventually reaches its final vessel, @Godhead who himself cannot even muster a semblance of the original excrement's quality, so he just settles for baseless insults as he has no substance to put forth as an actual counter-argument.

Someone is getting banned soon. 

Really the human centipede? 

[DrugsBunny]

8 hours ago, RebornConsciousness said:

The fact that you've been viewing this whole debate as something you can win or lose at, is so cringe

"Take an L" is just inadvertent language being used to admit fault in a bad assumption here. Cringing at your own misinterpretation, I cannot fathom a greater cringe.

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@DrugsBunny Stop playing some martyr here.

Your attachment to this trans shit is making you stupid.

Coming from the "all studies are fake" guy this doesn't hold much weight. I've presented every reason why I hold the positions I do, and you haven't responded to those, you just concocted some vague response towards the overall idea that someone would defend trans people. The fact you can't see your own bullshit is surprising and sadly discrediting.

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Someone is getting banned soon. 

Really the human centipede? 

They're too afraid to ban me. This guy wishes he was a mod so bad lol.

[Buck Edwards]

@DrugsBunny why do you insult others though? 

[DrugsBunny]

1 hour ago, Enlightement said:

@DrugsBunny why do you insult others though? 

You have more patience than I do. A noble quality, good for you.

[Buck Edwards]

Just now, DrugsBunny said:

You have more patience than I do. A noble quality, good for you.

Thank you Bunny. You're a cool person in real life. 

 

[JJfromSwitzerland]

19 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@JJfromSwitzerland

   Hey OP, how are you lately? Has this thread answered your questions? Never imagined it would get this heated?

@Danioover9000

not really as there were too many comments, I didn't even read them

[Danioover9000]

@JJfromSwitzerland

1 hour ago, JJfromSwitzerland said:

@Danioover9000

not really as there were too many comments, I didn't even read them

   If there's too many comments, and you haven't read them, and it seems like you're disinterested at this point, why not lock the thread?

[thierry]

Yes just be yourself. Ba natural. Be spontaneous. Stop with this bill shiet masculinity vs feminity.