If different forms of art have different spiral development...

[Husseinisdoingfine]

If different forms of art have different spiral development, then doesn't that prove Postmodernism wrong on culture?

https://www.actualized.org/insights/what-is-post-modernism

One aspect of postmodern philosophy is its' critique on culture. Contemporary culture usually divides forms of artistic expression into two categories; ''low'' culture, and ''high'' culture.

Forms of art which are classified as 'low' culture tend to be seen as 'trashy'. This 'trashy' culture is more barbaric and animal like, vulgar, and simple. Art classified as 'high' culture is more elegant, poetic, and complex. It takes a greater degree of intelligence to enjoy this type of culture, than lets say, a NASCAR race.

If the postmodern claim is correct, then listening to violent heavy metal, watching NASCAR, and listening to classical music are just all the same level.

But Spiral Dynamics integral teaches us that, no! Not all forms of expression are equal, some forms of art are at low levels of development and some are higher. This does not make them superior, this simply makes them higher. Just like how tier two SDi codes are not ''superior'', just higher. It's called high/low culture, not superior/inferior, culture.

Is there a reason why blissed out yogis don't listen to heavy metal and gangsta' rap?

[integral]

I was about to agree with you when

45 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

violent heavy metal, watching NASCAR, and listening to classical music

Music preferences do not correlate to level of development so simply. @Carl-Richard might have something to say about that heavy metal point ?

[Carl-Richard]

10 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Is there a reason why blissed out yogis don't listen to heavy metal and gangsta' rap?

Blissed out yogis can be low on the spiral as well. Spiral development and spiritual development are from a general standpoint only weakly correlated imo. Contrary to the "popular" or "trashy" or "low-culture" beliefs about Spiral Dynamics; Jesus, Buddha or Adiyogi were not Turquoise. They were probably barely piercing Blue.

As for violent heavy metal, as @integral was alluding to, it's not that black or white. Meshuggah, which has created some of the most violent sounds in metal music ever, has an album called "ObZen" (as in "obscene" + "Zen"). The album cover has a picture of an androgynous man meditating with blood on his hands. So even in that imagine alone, you see that it's possible to marry the pure and the violent, at least conceptually.

And the music in that album is likewise simultaneously trans-like and meditative and on the other hand terrorizing and disgusting-sounding. The amount of thought and conceptual brilliance put into the overarching concept and each song is certainly "high art". Besides, the story (in my interpretation) deals with a man who wakes up to himself but also becomes aware of the corruption within himself and of the surrounding world (pointing to the two-way split again). Tell me if all of that isn't profoundly deep.

Then on the other hand, I've noticed times where I think heavy metal feels too violent for me to listen to, and it sometimes correlates with how "sensitive" I feel. But on the other hand again, there are many times where I listen to heavy metal while entering states of no-mind and it's completely ok. So again, the only real pattern here is that it's not black or white.

So it seem to have very little to do with spiritual development, but you could make the case that more complex music correlates more strongly with spiral development. For example, I would place the guys in Meshuggah at Green. You won't find that level of conceptual and musical detailedness in say a standard country song (which is more likely Blue). But you also have pop songs that ooze Green (certainly Orange) in a more cultural way (less cognitive), but which are painfully simple both conceptually and musically.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Carl-Richard