Robert F. Kennedy Jr. running for POTUS

[OldManCorcoran]

14 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

Here is a link to RFK Jr Podcasts where you can get up to date analysis of what is actually happening in the world and why we need change.

https://open.spotify.com/show/30DqNXrHLKzz4xzmoty6xf

https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/rfkjr/episodes/Jeffrey-Sachs-On-China-e25gjp1

 

The below provide background on the perpetual war industry in America and how it provoked war in Ukraine and is provoking war in China and why it needs to be contained by a strong president:

“Violence in France and the Ukraine with Col Douglas Macgregor”

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4f3V4TVjR2IFhktcOLTUKE

“Jeffry Sachs on China” 

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4UulS9qPvT8x1joFkExUFi

 

Thanks for the latest Kennedy news ?

[Hatfort]

Antivaxers are wrong, vaccines have saved millions of lives.

There is a very interesting history of the smallpox vaccine which was discovered in the late XVIII century by the English physician Edward Jenner. The disease had a huge mortality rate and it was killing millions of people all over the world.

The Spanish crown, who had also suffered death from the disease firsthand, agreed on spreading the vaccine through the kingdom, with great success. But there was a problem with getting it to the colonies in America. Without any modern technology, it couldn't survive such a long journey. The Balmis Expedition found a solution for that, which would be considered quite unethical by today's standards. They used 22 healthy orphan kids as carriers of a lighter variant called cowpox, infecting all of them one by one during the long trip, so it would survive until the destination. The system worked, the vaccine reached its destiny, and millions of lives were saved overseas, getting immunity for both cowpox and deadly smallpox. I think the kids survived too.

It's considered a feat in the history of medicine. People forget.

[Ajax]

I can't listen to him, it's like sandpaper in my ear. I would read about him if I thought he had a chance, but... Well I have avoided the topic all together because of that voice.

[Jodistrict]

Robert Kennedy Jr. delivers an incredible foreign policy speech that everyone should hear.

 

 

[VoidJumper]

18 hours ago, Hatfort said:

Antivaxers are wrong, vaccines have saved millions of lives.

There is a very interesting history of the smallpox vaccine which was discovered in the late XVIII century by the English physician Edward Jenner. The disease had a huge mortality rate and it was killing millions of people all over the world.

The Spanish crown, who had also suffered death from the disease firsthand, agreed on spreading the vaccine through the kingdom, with great success. But there was a problem with getting it to the colonies in America. Without any modern technology, it couldn't survive such a long journey. The Balmis Expedition found a solution for that, which would be considered quite unethical by today's standards. They used 22 healthy orphan kids as carriers of a lighter variant called cowpox, infecting all of them one by one during the long trip, so it would survive until the destination. The system worked, the vaccine reached its destiny, and millions of lives were saved overseas, getting immunity for both cowpox and deadly smallpox. I think the kids survived too.

It's considered a feat in the history of medicine. People forget.

This is hardly the same as injecting small children with aluminum containing substances that haven't even been double-blind placebo tested

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, VoidJumper said:

that haven't even been double-blind placebo tested

EVERY vaccine and legal medicine in the US has been double-blind placebo controlled tested.

Stop spreading anti-vax shit.

You cannot get approval from the FDA without double-blind placebo controlled tests. Are you insane? You really think the FDA has not figured this out? They will not allow any drug on the market without that. Every vaccine has been tested to death. That does not mean it will be 100% safe for everyone because that is impossible. It's tested to be safe ENOUGH for average people.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Leo Gura

[VoidJumper]

On 7/5/2023 at 3:23 PM, Israfil said:

I hope for the better of people that the anti-vax sentiment doesn't spread. 

The fact is that it is spreading. Now the question becomes what to do about it. Wagging the appeal to authority finger will not change these peoples mind. 

At the moment I am agnostic, but I think RFK is making a very compelling case. If you want the anti-vax sentiment to stop spreading, he needs to be taken seriously and then shown why he is wrong once and for all

[VoidJumper]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

EVERY vaccine and legal medicine in the US has been double-blind placebo controlled tested.

Stop spreading anti-vax shit.

You cannot get approval from the FDA without double-blind placebo controlled tests. Are you insane? You really think the FDA has not figured this out? They will not allow any drug on the market without that.

Just going off what RFK said. It's hard to imagine he's pulling it all out of his ass. He seems like a principled guy overall, so why would he make this stuff up? He's also not stupid, and it really is a rather strange hill to die on if you are not 100% convinced it is the right thing to do. 

Personally I'm agnostic but he is making a compelling case and more and more people are taking it seriously. What is your solution to this?

[VoidJumper]

Are these the words of a crazy conspiracy nut?

Edited July 6, 2023 by VoidJumper

[Israfil]

54 minutes ago, VoidJumper said:

Wagging the appeal to authority finger will not change these peoples mind. 

Who appealed to authority? I'm stating that spreading misinformation about one of the greatest health solutions in history is harmful. Many crippling, killing diseases were eradicated thanks to vaccines.

[zurew]

 

55 minutes ago, VoidJumper said:

Just going off what RFK said.

You have made some  claims about the vaccines, without doing any research yourself and just reiterated what RFK said.  - Why do such a thing if you are truly agnostic?

55 minutes ago, VoidJumper said:

He seems like a principled guy overall, so why would he make this stuff up?

Instead of asking 100 different 'why' questions - psycho analysing RFK - why not do some research regarding the vaccines?

None of your questions are relevant regarding the efficacy and or safetiness of the vaccines - there are a 100 million different ways a person could be wrong about something, its not relevant why someone is wrong if he is indeed wrong.

I can fuck up a math equation for a million different reasons and in a million different ways - but it still won't change the fact that I fucked it up.

55 minutes ago, VoidJumper said:

It's hard to imagine he's pulling it all out of his ass. He seems like a principled guy overall, so why would he make this stuff up? He's also not stupid, and it really is a rather strange hill to die on if you are not 100% convinced it is the right thing to do. 

Sounds like you haven't researched any smart person seriously. No matter how smart you are , you can always say some dumb shit, especially when you are making claims outside of your own expertise - which sounds exactly like something what RFK did. Also, its not like RFK jr is some genius or something.

 

Whats interesting is that on one hand, you are claiming to be agnostic and on the other hand literally nothing is stopping your from fact checking rfk's claims. - to me if you would be honest you would just say that RFK's words are resonating with you , because it aligns with your anti-establishment ideology - but in that case lets not pretend that you would be persuaded by any data or studies. 

I would suggest to be more honest with your position ,  because you are giving off extremely dishonest vibes here.

Edited July 6, 2023 by zurew

[Israfil]

51 minutes ago, VoidJumper said:

It's hard to imagine he's pulling it all out of his ass.

https://classic.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04516746

Don't believe every single thing you hear an old man say. That's literally the first result of a 4-word google search.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Israfil

[Jodistrict]

The problem is that the corporate media isn’t reporting on what Robert Kennedy is actually saying.  And it’s a complicated issue that can’t be put in a 3 minute sound bite.  That’s why he is appearing on all these podcasts where he gets 2 or 3 hours to talk in depth.   To make it simple:  he is not anti-vax.  He wants to reform the regulatory agencies whom he believes have been captured by Big Pharma.    Due to the complexities of this issue, I gave links to his podcasts where the issue is discussed in more depth.

For the presidential election, in my opinion,  Kennedy’s vision to turn around US foreign policy makes “vaccines” a side issue in comparison.   We can have a productive economy and expand US influence by example, like what was actually done in the JFK administration, instead of sucking trillions of dollars in pointless wars.  We need to end the “war in inevitable with China” narrative and adopt a new way of thinking.    In my opinion Robert Kennedy, Jr is totally in sink with the JFK legacy.
 

[VoidJumper]

25 minutes ago, zurew said:

You have made some  claims about the vaccines, without doing any research yourself and just reiterated what RFK said.  - Why do such a thing if you are truly agnostic?

Because @Hatfort made the claim that antivaxers are wrong and justified it with this example of how a lighter version of the disease was used to bring about immunity etc., while the potential problems with vaccines relate to the composition of the modern versions.

5 minutes ago, zurew said:

Sounds like you haven't researched any smart person seriously. No matter how smart you are , you can always say some dumb shit

Sure that's why I said I was agnostic. I find the arguments interesting and compelling, but am not in a position to verify anything for certain.

10 minutes ago, zurew said:

making claims outside of your own expertise - sounds like something what RFK did. 

It can be a positive to come at a given field from the outside because you didn't go through the years of brain washing required to rise up within it and don't have any incentives to keep the scam going.

13 minutes ago, zurew said:

literally nothing is stopping your from fact checking rfk's claims

What am I supposed to do? Sacrifice 10 years of my life to become the worlds foremost expert? And then do that on every single controversial issue? 

What I can do and what the greater population can do, is listen to the arguments of both sides and then make a judgment based on who is making the better case. Now this only gets more difficult as a group of people who have decided they are the arbiters of truth only allow one side to be heard. And I'm not gonna lie, that kind of thing makes me immediately suspicious. 

21 minutes ago, zurew said:

if you would be honest you would just say that RFK's words are resonating with you , because it aligns with your anti-establishment ideology - but in that case lets not pretend that you would be persuaded by any data or studies.

Of course he is resonating with me because he aligns with my ideology, my worldview. But I have no horse in the race. If he can be proven wrong I would actually be quite relieved, but as far as I am aware that hasn't happened yet.

 

You seem so certain you know the truth. What are your qualifications @zurew ?

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, VoidJumper said:

Just going off what RFK said.

Why the fuck would you do that?

Quote

It's hard to imagine he's pulling it all out of his ass.

He is. Because he's deeply biased.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Recursoinominado]

3 hours ago, VoidJumper said:

Just going off what RFK said. It's hard to imagine he's pulling it all out of his ass. He seems like a principled guy overall, so why would he make this stuff up? He's also not stupid, and it really is a rather strange hill to die on if you are not 100% convinced it is the right thing to do. 

Personally I'm agnostic but he is making a compelling case and more and more people are taking it seriously. What is your solution to this?

Yes, he is completely wrong about vaccines.

[Recursoinominado]

3 hours ago, VoidJumper said:

Are these the words of a crazy conspiracy nut?

Yes.

 

[VoidJumper]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Why the fuck would you do that?

To make a point that the issue isn't the idea of vaccination itself, but rather the formulation of modern vaccines.

But you're right, I shouldn't make claims when I'm not willing or able to back them up

[VoidJumper]

One truth is clear, whatever is isn't boring

[zurew]

8 hours ago, VoidJumper said:

You seem so certain you know the truth.

Yes, because I have resarched this topic a lot, and I asked you and the other guy in this thread and before that I have talked to a bunch of people who could be called vaccine sceptic and they couldn't bring anything substantive on the table just going on side tangents without giving any evidence for their claims  or if they did bring something most of the time their own paper debunked their claims or they couldn't conceptualize what was going on in that paper or they only read the abstract and didn't bother the read the whole paper. - so yes this and knowing how fucking insane the idea is to manage to hide these big secrects on a global scale - when on a much smaller scale leaks happen all the time, I am very confident in my position.

Before you say again "ohh so you are not open to the idea that a big secret can be uphold for multiple years happen on a global scale?" - show me anything tangible.

8 hours ago, VoidJumper said:

It can be a positive to come at a given field from the outside because you didn't go through the years of brain washing required to rise up within it and don't have any incentives to keep the scam going.

I don't know whats the problem with you guys regarding analyzing incentives just only from one side and thinking thats like a big find or something. You do realize that alternative media people have a lot of incentive as well to keep repeating their ideologically and conspiratorial points?

Alex Jones have earned a fuckton of money doing that and you can earn a lot more than money - for example fame and followers, and an authority position - where you can virtue signal that you are the good one,  that you have have all the people's interest in mind, opposite to the corporate ,bad, ugly mainstream media. You can spot a bunch of same tactics and dynamics that you are so oppose to when it comes to the maisntream , but you are not even remotely suspicious or critical when it comes to the alternative media - that shows me you don't really care about seriously analyzing those dynamics you care more about focusing on people who are ideologically aligned with you and your opinions.

These tactics could be included on both sides : 

- Try to become an authority figure who can feed you information

- Signal to people that you have their interest in mind 

- Constantly undermining the other side's validity

- Earning a lot of money by not focusing on being right but more by focusing on telling points that are aligned with an establishment or an anti establishment ideology

- and then on the top of all that foundation you can build businesses and start your run for president

 

"Years of brainwashing" - where you actually need to learn about medicine and you can't just pull everything out of your ass without .

Also you do realize here, that when doctors make claims about the vaccine or  about any medicine - they will automatically be uphold to a much higher standard - therefore they need to worry a lot more about not saying wrong shit, because they can lose their job or at minimum they will be 5x more criticised than a layman like RFK.  So who has the incentive there to say correct things and to do a more in depth research?

If RFK jr is wrong you answer would be - "who cares, he got corrected". If a mainstream doctor is wrong - he is purposefully told a lie to participate in a global scam or "he should lose his job, because he is irresponsible" etcetc.

9 hours ago, VoidJumper said:

Because @Hatfort made the claim that antivaxers are wrong and justified it with this example of how a lighter version of the disease was used to bring about immunity etc., while the potential problems with vaccines relate to the composition of the modern versions.

None of that gives you a reason to reiterate a point confidently that you haven't checked yourself.

9 hours ago, VoidJumper said:

What am I supposed to do? Sacrifice 10 years of my life to become the worlds foremost expert? And then do that on every single controversial issue?

No. Even this point of yours show me that you haven't done any research before, because there are claims that are easy to check (with sometimes a 5 second in other times few hours of google search) and there are others that you can't really check because you would actually need to be an expert or very knowledgeable on the topic.

9 hours ago, VoidJumper said:

What are your qualifications @zurew ?

Ohh I am your best bet, because I am not a doctor so I am not brainwashed or blinded by the system yet and I still have a special ability to see through the matrix.