How to know if everything is a setup to deceive you?

[Bobby_2021]

Think about this. I don't know if the entire fourm and the members are secretly conspiring to fool me. I don't know if all my family and everyone I meet is together conspiring to create an environment to study me.

How do I know if I am not the object of study by a superior species who is crafting my environment just to suit me.

 Is there any foolproof way to prove this wrong?

[Buck Edwards]

Sounds like schizophrenia. 

We have such episodes sometimes don't worry.

You're simply giving into over thinking. Rest easy. 

One way to know the real from the imagined is to collect sufficient evidence to match your projections.

 

[Carl-Richard]

There are many things that are logically possible but which are not reasonable possibilities. For example, you have no way to prove right now that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist, or that there isn't a hyper-dimensional space unicorn floating around the orbit of Neptune, or that every time you close your eyes at night, there isn't a giant spider that creeps up from under your bed and sits beside you. All of those things are logically possible, but they're just not very reasonable.

My last post talked about this: if you want to reduce the vast potential of suffering that your imagination can conjure up, you have to make peace with the unknown and not let it bother you too much. When you're driving your car, your steering can malfunction and make you crash into a ditch. When you're flying a plane, a loose nut can get dislodged and get sucked into the engines. There is an infinite amount of logically possible scenarios like that. But why worry about them?

Edited April 29, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Bobby_2021]

4 hours ago, RebornConsciousness said:

I'm gonna take a few years of break from this site and from actualized for real. Starting today. Thinking about stuff like this has fuck all to do with self improvement and self actualization, yet I see this type of schizo shit all over this site, more and more lately. What a waste of mental space.

??????

I understand you. I was doing something and thought of this idea and immediately came to post it. I don't read the fourm anymore. I only post and read replies. I rarely read what others are posting to keep my sanity in check. 

My post should definitely come with a warning sign. Reading this out of the blue seriously fucks up the mind. 

This fourm consumes your mental resources more than a normal 9-5 and it's not an exaggeration. 

But I disagree that it has nothing to do with self actualization. If you want to know the Truth, then you should be willing to question everything. Everything is self deception in the end. Indeed scary.

But I do recommend getting basics handled before you delve into schizo. ?

[Bobby_2021]

4 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

There are many things that are logically possible but which are not reasonable possibilities. For example, you have no way to prove right now that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist, or that there isn't a hyper-dimensional space unicorn floating around the orbit of Neptune, or that every time you close your eyes at night, there isn't a giant spider that creeps up from under your bed and sits beside you. All of those possibilities are logically possible, but they're not very reasonable.

My last post talked about this: if you want to reduce the vast potential of suffering that could be spun up by your imagination, you have to peace with the unknown and not let it bother you too much. When you're driving your car, your steering can malfunction and make you crash into a ditch. When you're flying a plane, a loose nut can get dislodged and get sucked into an engine. There is an infinite amount of such scenarios. Why worry about that?

Consider these:

1. You can never ever define what a flying spagetti monster is. It's impossible to clearly define anything.

It's impossible to define what it means to "exist". What is existence and non existence? 

2. Let's say that you could define a what a flying spagetti monster is or a unicorn for that matter. It's just a construction in your mind. That's all.

A unicorn exists as a construction in your mind. That's what it is. This fourm is a construction of your mind.

"You" are a construction of your mind.

So to answer your question, yes, all those things exist as constructions.

Even a tree is nothing more than a construction of your mind. 

3. What if a 10 foot giant black spider is crawling on your face while you are sleeping.

The above possibility is true. But it cannot be measured. As long as you do not measure it, it exists in a state of infinite possibilities. When you finally come to measure it, it collapses into one possibility. So yeah that's also true.

A spider, unicorn, flying spagetti monster and an infinite possibilities of events all is dancing on your face as long as you don't measure it.

What you said is not a wild possibility. It's just a fact.

----------

My line of reasoning is in sync with the reasoning of solipsism.

Solipsism is true not because you can prove it but because it's impossible to disprove it.

If something is impossible to disprove, then it's true.

@Leo Gura  Thoughts.

 

[at_anchor]

@Bobby_2021 That could be true. Maybe from your experience you caught glances of proof for this and now see that it's actually reality while the rest of us just walk ignorant of what you have witnessed and then rightfully concluded. 

I'm open to the possibility of it being true, but I would need a lot more proof to be convinced, which is hard to get since I'd have to literally go through your life to get it or maybe not. What do you think?

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

My line of reasoning is in sync with the reasoning of solipsism.

Then I consider your reasoning to not be useful.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[r0ckyreed]

8 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

don't know if the entire fourm and the members are secretly conspiring to fool me.

Nobody is fooling you or conspiring anything but you. All deception is self-deception.

[Bobby_2021]

12 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

1. Nobody is fooling you or conspiring anything but you.

2. All deception is self-deception.

1. How do I know? Should I take your word for it? In that case how do I know if you are into this giant conspiracy? 

2. Everything is the self. There is nothing but the self. So any deception at all is self deception.

[Carl-Richard]

8 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

1. How do I know? Should I take your word for it? In that case how do I know if you are into this giant conspiracy?

If literally anything is possible, why are you entertaining this particular schizo thought and not something else?

[zurew]

@Bobby_2021 You said it yourself that you can't 100% disprove it, so then why entertain it? Why spend even 1 second thinking about these things, when thinking about these things is completely useless and won't get you anywhere?

For some strange reason you give these thoughts more power than other thoughts, but why?

15 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

If something is impossible to disprove, then it's true.

You can't disprove the opposite either (that there is no big conspiracy), so why give more power and attention to the big conspiracy thought?

[Bobby_2021]

On 4/30/2023 at 0:49 PM, Carl-Richard said:

If literally anything is possible, why are you entertaining this particular schizo thought and not something else?

Because it might be true.

Just because you refrain from entertaining it dosen't mean it would cease to be true. Just that you can bask in the ignorance of self deception. The DECEPTION is still ON.

It's your job to get to the bottom of it.

And it may not be useful to you. It can be a waste of time depending on your priorities. Totally possible. 

[Bobby_2021]

On 4/30/2023 at 1:36 PM, zurew said:

@Bobby_2021 You said it yourself that you can't 100% disprove it, so then why entertain it? Why spend even 1 second thinking about these things, when thinking about these things is completely useless and won't get you anywhere?

For some strange reason you give these thoughts more power than other thoughts, but why?

You can't disprove the opposite either (that there is no big conspiracy), so why give more power and attention to the big conspiracy thought?

Disproving a negative statement is akin to proving it.

Disproving the statement "there is no God" is just proving there is God.

It's just slightly more complicated language used to demonstrate the same thing.

Some things can be true without proof. 

That's why counter examples are the only fool proof way.

If you can't give even atleast one counter example, it is true.

[Bobby_2021]

On 4/30/2023 at 0:34 AM, RebornConsciousness said:

I should follow your lead in this one.

Especially the consciousness and psychadelic section is highly cancerous to my more "materialistic efforts" and my mental stability. Yet my dumbass keeps reading them posts every time.

To be honest, this topic would be an interesting hypothetical if it wasn't so personal. I feel like I wouldn't be able to ponder about this for long before going insane LOL

No kidding LOL

I've just re-read Leo's definition of self actualization and all the bullet points within the definition of a characteristics of a person who's self actualized, and yeah, I guess it fits. I wouldn't say it fits into self improvement though. And probably wouldn't fit into happiness maxxing and sanity maxxing either LOL

Word.

Good thing about Leo's content is that he has many videos about basic practical self improvement and self actualization stuff which can easilly ground you in reality again. So I'll just stick to the website without going to this forum, and I should be good. Re-reading the booklist again and taking notes in the process. I definitely feel more sane and stable

Come to the fourm with an intention.

Get it.

Then leave.

This is how I do it.

No scrolling around for fun unless you have plenty of free time to invest in here. His YT videos is more than enough.

[Carl-Richard]

42 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Because it might be true.

But anything might be true. Why are you particularly focused on whether people could be conspiring against you?

[zurew]

7 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Disproving a negative statement is akin to proving it.

Disproving the statement "there is no God" is just proving there is God.

It's just slightly more complicated language used to demonstrate the same thing.

Some things can be true without proof. 

That's why counter examples are the only fool proof way.

If you can't give even atleast one counter example, it is true.

There is no proving or disproving of what you said.  Proving or disproving already assumes some kind of a grounding ( a framework or an epistemic process that we agree on or take for granted ) that we can use to evaluate a claim's truth value.

If you want to get to the bottom of it, you need to repeteadly ask yourself "how do I know this". and you will end up with either an infinite regress or with a paradox and with the "I can't know for sure".

Not being able to know something 100%, doesn't make that thought or claim automatically true - its just lack of knowledge or lack of knowing.

 

But then again, why focus on this conspiracy and not any other thought?

[integral]

No thats the end of logic, play a different game now. 

[Bobby_2021]

On 5/2/2023 at 1:01 AM, zurew said:

If you want to get to the bottom of it, you need to repeteadly ask yourself "how do I know this". and you will end up with either an infinite regress or with a paradox and with the "I can't know for sure".

If others are conspiring against me, then I wouldn't know. 

That's why I asked how do I know that this is not the case.

And I am okay with not knowing. But the possibility is always there. 

[universe]

You can become deeply conscious about some parts of the nature of reality.

Then you will know about the conspiracy and who made it.

[caspex]

There's a state where you realize whatever is happening/not happening is your will. So even if someone WAS deceiving you relatively, you realize that's actually you're will. So ultimately no one is deceiving you, the ultimate You or God can't be deceived, because no matter what state it is in is truth. If you don't wanna go that high up then your question is one that can't be answered, because no matter what you experience it can be suspected as being part of the deception. Maybe there's a way, Idk.