What If Enlightenment Is Just Another Human Feature?

[Emil]

It sometimes cross my mind, the possibility that enlightenment can just be a feature we human being's can achieve. We see it as a realization that we are not what we think we are, we aren't really the body, mind, just pure awareness of life etc. But what if we ARE who we are and that is just another thing we *us human's* can do, just very difficult to achieve. How it is said "when we die, it is just the 'body' breaking, but we aren't the body, so it isn't us that is dying" etc

But my question is; What if, all of these things: the mind, emotions, the body, thoughts, enlightenment; are just all human features and we did not know it. Just enlightenment is just the highest state or stage of human consciousness. Like when we die, all of those features go as well.

Could it be possible that we just die like how a mosquito or an ant dies? Well, how we would think an ant or mosquito dies. After all, none of us died before so how can we know? You know, just asking, what if?

Edited February 13, 2016 by Emil

[Pallero]

I would say, become enlightened and then ask those questions again.

[aurum]

You're saying, "what if this thing I think I am when I become enlightened is just another mirage?" But the whole point of enlightenment is that you don't think you're anything. Anything you can think of is just a concept and so the moment you try to define it, you've lost it. You're no longer operating on the level of "belief".

If this seems absurd, it's because it is. Therefore the only real answer can be "find out for yourself". Keep questioning everything.

[Markus]

All that you could ever call you is your subjective experience, or a part of it. All that ever i s you is awareness (technically it's unspeakable, but if one were to put it into words, that's what it's best described as). Speculation over whether awareness is a property of the brain, or exists on its own, or is something that finds a new body once the current body dies - it's all just beliefs. It's just seeing and hearing arising and subsiding in awareness.

Being someone who has had, and still largely does, a rationalist worldview and self-image, I could say that awareness arises from the brain and stops after death. But there is no possibility of contact with such truth. Awareness can know itself, but not the lack of itself. There is no experience of unawareness, hence awareness never began and never ends - not because it goes on forever in time but because it is atemporal. You are not a human being. You were never born and you will never die. Welcome to the trans-rational. 

[Leo Gura]

You're not yet appreciating the absolutely RADICAL thing that enlightenment is. You're taking it as another, just higher, belief or piece of knowledge that you will acquire. But that is not enlightenment. After enlightenment you will no longer think of yourself as a human or even an object. Death will become a fairytale.

It's like discovering that EVERYTHING you thought you knew about life and existence is wrong.

[Guest]

@Leo Gura Leo, through my own thought, I managed to hit upon the ideas you introduced in your first videos of enlightenment prior to watching them, but I am still far from realizing it on a more than intellectual level. I dismissed them as useless ideologies instead of looking at them as practical truth. 

I  still subscribe to the notion that absolute truth is impossible to verify. How is it even possible to know whether or not it is valid? How can we be sure its not just a pleasant experience that seems to be  true due to flawed mechanisms of understanding?  Is it even possible? Are these some questions that can't be resolved until one does the inner work to become enlightened, only being able to understand but not communicate once one had achieved that level? 

I understand that you are far from enlightened, but how do you resolve these discrepancies? 

[A way to Actualize]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's like discovering that EVERYTHING you thought you knew about life and existence is wrong.

Wonderful to say. I think everyone can relate to that one with their first enlightenment experience .

I came to the deep realization some time ago that no idea is ultimately wrong. It seems that a perspective is more right when closer to truth, but I would not suggest to take that as a more valid perspective.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Saitama said:

@Leo Gura

I  still subscribe to the notion that absolute truth is impossible to verify. How is it even possible to know whether or not it is valid? How can we be sure its not just a pleasant experience that seems to be  true due to flawed mechanisms of understanding?  Is it even possible? Are these some questions that can't be resolved until one does the inner work to become enlightened, only being able to understand but not communicate once one had achieved that level? 

I understand that you are far from enlightened, but how do you resolve these discrepancies? 

Firstly, absolute truth is not an experience.

Secondly, it is not an understanding and it happens through no mechanism.

Thirdly, it is not an answer to any question.

Enlightenment is not a knowing, it is a deep un-knowing.

The problem you're having is that you're conceiving enlightenment as some kind of additional belief or emotional state, which it is not. It's something totally alien that you have never thought was possible in a million years. It's not gonna be a "thing" that your ego is going to be able to grasp on to in the way you imagine.

You have to really think outside the box on this one.

[Guest]

@Leo Gura Is the deep unknowing simply an accepting and being at peace with the fact I know nothing?

 

To make sure I understand what you're saying, I'll try to paraphrase. I am struggling with grasping enlightenment because I am attempting to become aware of it the same way I have with everything else in my life.  Is it then, right to say that pure rational thought and logic are not a reliable means of approaching this awareness? I am beginning to suspect that to be the case. But if that is so, wouldn't that mean it would be an awareness that can't be subjected to critical examination?

[Rito]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You're not yet appreciating the absolutely RADICAL thing that enlightenment is. You're taking it as another, just higher, belief or piece of knowledge that you will acquire. But that is not enlightenment. After enlightenment you will no longer think of yourself as a human or even an object. Death will become a fairytale.

It's like discovering that EVERYTHING you thought you knew about life and existence is wrong.

@Leo GuraAm I on the right track? I feel that enlightenment is more like a reduction process,more like un-wiring the constructs of self and ego that are the pillars of human suffering.Evolution has instilled in us a sense of the self,so as to protect us in the "jungle environment" outside.It is the process of consciously shedding this self -which is nothing but a construct of our lower consciousness .Enlightenment is more of a gradual disintegration,than something that can be called a elevation to a new level.Like the cutting of the diamond

Edited February 14, 2016 by Rito

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Saitama said:

@Leo Gura Is the deep unknowing simply an accepting and being at peace with the fact I know nothing?

 

To make sure I understand what you're saying, I'll try to paraphrase. I am struggling with grasping enlightenment because I am attempting to become aware of it the same way I have with everything else in my life.  Is it then, right to say that pure rational thought and logic are not a reliable means of approaching this awareness? I am beginning to suspect that to be the case. But if that is so, wouldn't that mean it would be an awareness that can't be subjected to critical examination?

It's not that simple. Because if you truly knew nothing you would cease to exist as you. Because "you" is a belief.

Truth is prior to thoughts, so thoughts cannot be used to access truth.

That's right, truth is awareness itself. It knows itself. It is prior to any possible mental examination.

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, Rito said:

@Leo GuraAm I on the right track? I feel that enlightenment is more like a reduction process,more like un-wiring the constructs of self and ego that are the pillars of human suffering.Evolution has instilled in us a sense of the self,so as to protect us in the "jungle environment" outside.It is the process of consciously shedding this self -which is nothing but a construct of our lower consciousness .Enlightenment is more of a gradual disintegration,than something that can be called a elevation to a new level.Like the cutting of the diamond

It does involve deconstruction and unwiring, but the actual enlightenment itself is being. You become what you actually are, rather than what you presently believe you are.

You are an infinite field of awareness within which all of life occurs. This field cannot be seen. It is not an object. It has no shape. It has no location. It is self-aware Nothingness. And you are it.

[Galyna]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It does involve deconstruction and unwiring, but the actual enlightenment itself is being. You become what you actually are, rather than what you presently believe you are.

You are an infinite field of awareness within which all of life occurs. This field cannot be seen. It is not an object. It has no shape. It has no location. It is self-aware Nothingness. And you are it.

Leo, would you be so kind to explain here what stands behind the word " Awareness"? What is Awareness? 

Is it a sensation of Reality or it is a Knowledge? 

If it is a Knowledge, does it mean that Information "aware" if itself? 

I am not talking here in the context of human awareness, more universal. 

 

Sorry for the silly question.

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Galyna said:

Leo, would you be so kind to explain here what stands behind the word " Awareness"? What is Awareness? 

Awareness is Nothingness. It's what you actually are. An empty, formless, infinite transparent field. It cannot be seen or thought. It is the empty space within which reality occurs and your body/mind exist in.

Awareness = consciousness = spirit = God = you

To get a real clear taste of it requires an enlightenment experience. In that moment you see everything as made out of awareness.

[Galyna]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Awareness is Nothingness. It's what you actually are. An empty, formless, infinite transparent field. It cannot be seen or thought. It is the empty space within which reality occurs and your body/mind exist in.

Awareness = consciousness = spirit = God = you

To get a real clear taste of it requires an enlightenment experience. In that moment you see everything as made out of awareness.

Thank you very much for your answer

 

Also, that video about "How To Become Enlightened" is my favorite one, I re-watched it about 10 times, returning myself over and over to the present moment by cutting past and future, it is really very very powerful video. Thank you. For me it works better than self-inquiry.