Understanding

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

The mind must be a certain way, at least for spirituality: free of any limitations. If not, you are going to fool yourself

I’ve understood just now that 1 + 1 = 8. And, yes, I can logically explain this. 

Does that make me delusional? A fool? Maybe. But from my point of view, Consciousness can expand Consciousness beyond limitations. It does so by including limitations (in this case, 1 + 1 = 2) precisely because Consciousness can self-reference Itself infinitely.

TL;DR, Reality/Mind doesn’t need to be free of limitations in order to understand Itself.

[Breakingthewall]

@Moksha thanks for sharing, you are very honest, how it has to be. if you allow me one more question... why this rejection of the psychedelic? Trust me, you don't understand. Is it maybe your ego getting strong? the psychedelic is a key left to dissolve the limits, to real awakening. you can't imagine what it is. reject it so firmly and even vehemently, without having tried it... think about it. What does this mean? many spiritual teachers do the same as you. Why that conservatism? 

[Moksha]

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

if you allow me one more question... why this rejection of the psychedelic? Trust me, you don't understand. Is it maybe your ego getting strong? the psychedelic is a key left to dissolve the limits, to real awakening. you can't imagine what it is. reject it so firmly and even vehemently, without having tried it... think about it. What does this mean? many spiritual teachers do the same as you. Why that conservatism? 

Thank you for the sincere discussion, this is much better and you ask a fair question. I've done enough research on psychedelics to understand they have tremendous potential for increasing the neuroplasticity of the brain. With proper integration, this loosening of mental structures can help heal illnesses, and I believe can contribute toward awakening.

However, I haven't seen any evidence that they assist with enlightenment (i.e., remaining awake). They give people glimpses, but don't keep the door to the absolute open. Also, while they don't appear to be physically addictive, I feel they can contribute to spiritual addiction. What I mean by that is the addiction to pursuing peak experiences, in the absence of actually surrendering to the absolute within. I don't feel there are shortcuts to enlightenment. The surrender has to be absolutely sincere.

The direct answer to your question is that I am already awake. My experience is not that I need more enlightenment, but that I am having to throttle the light in order not to be overwhelmed by it. The human body is a transmitter, and while its capacity can expand, it is still limited. You have to pace enlightenment, or it can blow a fuse. I know how it sounds  But I am sincere.

[Yimpa]

You cannot have “understanding” without “under” and “standing”.

[Breakingthewall]

8 hours ago, Moksha said:

The direct answer to your question is that I am already awake. My experience is not that I need more enlightenment, but that I am having to throttle the light in order not to be overwhelmed by it.

Ok, if it's like that for you, I believe you, but let's see. For some time now you have been attacking any deviation from what you consider to be correct in spirituality, which is a very classical conception based on the Bahavad Gita and Buddhism, the need to transcend desire, absolute/relative duality, etc. and your attack is: you have not realized the absolute, and I do. You tell it to Leo, you tell it to me, in general to those who go deeper with psychedelics. I repeat what I told you before: you don't understand the psychedelic path. It is not about seeking peak experiences but about understanding what we are. you think that understanding is not necessary or valuable, that it is suffering, as in your case, that leads to the realization of the absolute. ok so maybe instead of using psychedelics i should volunteer for the war in yemen or marry someone with borderline disorder?. no, seriously, with psychedelics, when your intention is to really delve into reality, you realize the absolute. before, you have ridiculed an experience that I told a some time ago in which I did 5 meo 4 times in one day, and 3 were a horrible abyss empty of death, and the fourth, at 4 in the morning, it happened that the infinite opened and the absolute It manifested itself fully. hallelujah etc. You don't understand what this was, otherwise you wouldn't ridicule it. You have to have a more open mind and not assume that others are stupid or deceived. there are smart people here. Leo is sharp and alert to self-deception. I'm not a fool either, others aren't either. This is not easy, it is necessary to be very penetrating. Think that perhaps you have closed yourself off in your version of reality and are not open to understanding other ways. 

You say the same as others: psychedelics induce peak experiences but I don't know of any cases in which they lead to lasting changes. well, you know me, leo, others here who affirm that yes, they do. Do you think we lie or are deceived? It is your right, but it is frustrating if you repeated it over and over again, especially when it seems that no real attention has been paid to what is being said, but it seems that you have let yourself be carried away by an idea already formed from before.

[Breakingthewall]

@Squeekytoy it's sad to read you. When you joined here seems that you have some intelligence, something to give, but after the first layer, there is.... nothing, just a poor guy depressed without any understanding. Please, don't come here to play with the adults, it's not your place. 

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

It's this place...

? 

Your previous nickname was batman right? Don't fool yourself, it's not the place, it's you, who tends to negativity. there is a lot of positive in this site, at least it is tried. control your tendency, life is difficult

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Squeekytoy said:

. 

Anyway don't worry, I'll leave you adults to it.  ?

2 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

 

 

yeah man, sorry if i was rude, but I don't see the point in intervening just to annoy

[Yimpa]

@Breakingthewall I’mma be real with you. It’s awesome that you have all this passion and drive for understanding Reality. However, it’s also important to do grounding work and understanding your emotions. I myself also struggle with this, but I’m starting to realize the importance of focusing on those as well - with the same drive you have towards psychedelic trips.

The key insight is that the other work is ultimately not separate from the Absolute. Be careful not to put psychedelics on a pedestal, because ultimately you’re going to realize that there’s no difference between 5-MeO-DMT and a rubber duck.

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

Didn't mean to annoy at all. You need about 10 years of maturing. Unless you really think you'll be the same then as now. 

I get that's annoying. 

Why you say that? Just a feeling? Because here we are to explain our assessments. Not just to expell our negativity and our bitterness dirtying conversations and denigrating everyone.

That type of people is called toxic, and I would say that you are one. It is a kind of people that should be kept away

[Yimpa]

I understand that a rubber ducky and a sailboat are identical. 

[Yimpa]

10 years is the same as NOW.

[Breakingthewall]

31 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

Ok well... Get back in 10 years. You keep asking the same shit over and over, you're gonna get an answer. 

Man, this is a forum for people who want to go deep, serious spirituality. Why are you trying to turn this into something depressing? go to forchan or some place like that. I find it sad to see the drift of this forum, frustrated people trolling, people posting because are bored,  each time lower level. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Yimpa]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Man, this is a forum for people who want to go deep, serious spirituality. Why are you trying to turn this into something depressing? go to forchan or some place like that. I find it sad to see the drift of this forum, frustrated people trolling, each time lower level. Leo fire people who don't think like him but keeps clowns. In the end this will be a clown forum, one more.

All of that can be, and would be wise to, question seriously. 

Be careful not to blame others and fail to see the self-deception at play. Which is, of course, You.

I deal with this issue Myself.

[Moksha]

9 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

You say the same as others: psychedelics induce peak experiences but I don't know of any cases in which they lead to lasting changes. well, you know me, leo, others here who affirm that yes, they do. Do you think we lie or are deceived? It is your right, but it is frustrating if you repeated it over and over again, especially when it seems that no real attention has been paid to what is being said, but it seems that you have let yourself be carried away by an idea already formed from before.

I try not to assume what others do or don't realize. If you feel that I have judged you or your journey in any way, I apologize. That is not my intention. I believe the absolute in each avatar has to carve its own path to realization. I also believe, and have said specifically regarding both you and Leo, that you are entirely sincere.

When I say that I have seen no evidence of psychedelics leading to enlightenment, I am referring to what has been shared in this forum and other sources (Ram Dass, Aldous Huxley, etc.) that I have read over the years. I am looking at the perpetual state of being lucid within the dream. I am not referring to enduring positive changes, which I'm quite sure you and Leo have realized. By enlightenment, I mean being in the continuous flow state of the absolute with its cosmos. You have shared that the door opens and closes for you. Leo has never indicated that the door is always open for him, at least not that I have seen. I don't presume whether it is or not.

I hold all ideas loosely, including the ideas expressed here. They are sketches on a thin scrap of parchment, and are not absolutely real.

I realize what I realize, and it is what it is. It is still within the dream, and my only commitment is to keeping the portal as clearly open as possible, regardless of what flows through it, until the portal itself finally dissolves.

[Yimpa]

2 minutes ago, Moksha said:

I hold all ideas loosely, including the ideas expressed here. They are sketches on a thin scrap of parchment, and are not absolutely real.

I can assure you that it’s absolutely real and unreal. 

It’s a mindflux.

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Moksha said:

. I am looking at the perpetual state of being lucid within the dream.

Yes of course, same as everyone, but I'm sure that you know it's not something easy that anyone could do at will. in fact, it is extremely difficult, more difficult than anything else. 99.9999% of people will never in their life even come close to a momentary opening, to a mystical experience. it is something extremely rare. What in your specific case is something that occurs spontaneously? ok, millions of circumstances since your birth, or before, have made that happen. if one of them had been different, it would not have happened. so what options are there? psychedelics work, they open the door to the absolute. then it closes. we are pioneers, no one had used psychedelics like this. in the time of ram dass and huxcley there was no 5meo. little nuance right? huge difference.

We will see the result of this. what is obvious is that for many it is the only possible way of real openness and understanding. used with true intelligence and intuition we will see where it leads

[Yimpa]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

99.9999% of people will never in their life even come close to a momentary opening, to a mystical experience.

99.9999% of people are imaginary. 

0.0001% of people are imaginary. 

[Moksha]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

What in your specific case is something that occurs spontaneously? ok, millions of circumstances since your birth, or before, have made that happen. if one of them had been different, it would not have happened. so what options are there? psychedelics work, they open the door to the absolute. then it closes. we are pioneers

You're correct that nothing is spontaneous, including psychedelic exploration. Maybe the absolute will open a perpetual portal to itself through psychedelics, maybe not. I have yet to see it, but of course that doesn't mean it isn't possible.

All I know directly is that suffering does the trick, when you are willing to deeply learn the lesson it is trying to teach you.

[Yimpa]

6 hours ago, Moksha said:

All I know directly is that suffering does the trick, when you are willing to deeply learn the lesson it is trying to teach you.

For sure. I’ve been suffering a lot this past month, yet I feel like I’ve made some of the most growth. On top of that, I started dating someone seriously this past month and they also go through a lot of suffering. Thankfully our communication is built on the foundation of trust and openness (: