What is your definition of enlightenment?

[StarStruck]

Seems like people use it as an absolute but IMO it is not..

[Leo Gura]

There is such higher consciousness than merely realizing Truth.

You can have 100 awakenings beyond Truth-Realization.

Precisely since Truth is Everything, that doesn't say much about how conscious you are.

"Enlightenment" is a dream within an even higher consciousness.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

@Leo Gura

Enlightenment is a dream, period. Same with all your other levels of awakening. 

No. What I mean is, so-called enlightened people do no understand that their enlightenment is a dream and that they are not seriously conscious. They actually think they've achieved something with enlightenment.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Salvijus]

En-Light-ment means reaching more Light. And since god has no limit, you can access greater and greater and greater Light forever 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Salvijus

[Buck Edwards]

One thing I know.. Enlightement is not something that ends somewhere. It's never ending. It's not something that you part with and then call it an achievement. 

It can never be an achievement. 

 

[WeCome1]

2 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

untruth-unrealization

Haha, that one's on point!

Personally, I'd define "enlightenment" narrowly as a "permanent removal of false self-identification".

There is a persistent illusion of the subject being within the body and having the body; and then there is a whole "descriptive layer" of ideas in the mind, supporting that illusion (the false self-identification in question). The illusion itself, as far as I can tell, cannot be removed permanently - but it can be escaped temporarily, which allows to see the true state of things. I like the analogy with a sunset: the Sun appears to set behind the horizon; we can go to orbit and see directly, how things actually are (experience a high-consciousness state); but then, once we return to the surface, the Sun appears to set exactly the same as before - however, the whole thing has forever been recontextualized in our mind; the whole construct of "the sun - setting - in the west" is thrown away. Of course, it can still be used in daily interactions for convenience. Also, for some (for most, actually), the recontextualization might be too radical - so several trips to orbit might be necessary for the message to sink in, so to speak. So, as the result of all that, the non-dual nature of reality is radically more often and more easily apparent in daily life. In my experience, it is a very gradual process; to the point that it's almost impossible to imagine, how one used to imagine all that duality 24/7 - but also not sure how exactly one got here to the present mode of perception.

And, obviously, there are infinite other aspects of Truth/Reality one can become conscious of, to various degrees of depth. This doesn't make the "enlightenment" realization any less valid, final or total.

Edited April 26, 2023 by WeCome1

[Water by the River]

.... among other realizations/understandings about the Real You and Absolute Reality itself, also understanding that the separate self is a structure/process of doing something like shown in the video below, leading to an everlasting cycle of sometimes suffering and being a little bit less (or a lot less) than permanently happy.

And then stopping doing the rock-thing. And being happy ever after, at least what psychological suffering is concerned.

If somebody disagrees on the no-more-suffering part: You can keep your Awakening/beliefs, and my consciousness-stream keeps its "own" little endless reservoir of the bliss of our True Nature. 

For more technical explanations, see my previous posts.

Bon voyage

Water by the River

 

PS:

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

They actually think they've achieved something with enlightenment.

With such a statement, the participation fee for the "rolling the rock up the mountain contest" is certainly well paid.

 

Lets end with this:

“We live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all.”

― Kalu Rinpoche

[Yimpa]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No. What I mean is, so-called enlightened people do no understand that their enlightenment is a dream and that they are not seriously conscious. They actually think they've achieved something with enlightenment.

Well, based on your logic they achieved bullshit 

Man… I bet dreamy bullshit smells better, though.

[Hello from Russia]

@Leo Gura do you still recommend reading tons of books about enlightenment from various teachers that you endorsed in the past (in the book list and so forth)? 

[Moksha]

It's true that there is nothing more than truth, but since truth is depthless, the realization of it is continuous within the dream. I prefer enlightening to enlightenment, since there is no end to the absolute. The light flows through you, without being defined by you. The only way to limitlessly realize it is to abandon the dream entirely.

[OldManCorcoran]

I definitely don't believe in multiple states of enlightenment. I think it's more like becoming lucid in a dream, you can be various states of lucid, but there's only one awakening when you open your eyes in bed.

I don't think many can maintain "enlightenment". Nobody here. Leo will see whether he can do so if he foregoes drugs for a couple of years until all these mental states are a distant memory.

Being constantly enlightened seems like an actual brain malfunction. It's really abnormal to live a full life in ego death...

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, Squeekytoy said:

Yes it continues unfolding endlessly until your physical death, but that isn't more truth, it's more integration, i.e. the continuous unfolding is dreamstuff not truth.

As I see it, the continuous unfolding is the dissolving of any remaining samskaras, which are mind blockages that the absolute flows around until it can flood through unconditionally. Also, the apparent boundaries of the portal itself grow fainter until even they eventually disappear.

[Carl-Richard]

You stop compulsively talking to yourself for most of the day.

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

It's true that there is nothing more than truth, but since truth is depthless, the realization of it is continuous within the dream. I prefer enlightening to enlightenment, since there is no end to the absolute. The light flows through you, without being defined by you. The only way to limitlessly realize it is to abandon the dream entirely.

Of course there is more than truth… otherwise we wouldn’t be discussing the perplexity on this forum!

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

You stop compulsively talking to yourself for most of the day.

Until it dawns on you that everything is yourself. Including compulsively talking to yourself.

[Yimpa]

5 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

Yes that's integration (imo). The removal of artificial, illusory segregation.

What if… hear me out…

Nothing is illusory! Then what the qjwpeifjpqweoifj  is there to remove?

[Yimpa]

5 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

Then that's called delusion. 

Enlightenment = Illusory = Delusion = Reality

Riddle me a spiritual sandwich. 

[Yimpa]

@Squeekytoy It’s a feature, not a bug 

 

[Moksha]

16 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

Mental-emotional shit is really al there is to work with, so the way I see it, there just isn't much room for debate. It's all we have/are, and it's all that's in the way. All extraordinary claims surrounding awakening and enlightenment notwithstanding.

It's like stumbling into a ghost town after crossing an endless stretch of desert. You discover an old well pump, corroded by disuse and neglect. You  only have a swig of water left in your flask, and instead of drinking it, you use it to prime the pump.

At first, the pump produces decades-old sludge, but eventually the water becomes less muddy, until it is clear enough to drink.

Wisdom vs. desire.

[UnbornTao]

Becoming directly conscious of the absolute truth of you. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Moksha]

18 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

Yes Jesus.

Leo once said to me, "Fuck Buddha".

You say, "Fuck Jesus". 

I agree, but only after you have learned to Fuck yourself.