What is the opposite of love?

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Not only can so-called gurus be bright, they can also be deluded or disingenuous. The only guru that can be trusted is the guru within.

Agree, but this guru can lie himself too. self-deception is the number one problem in this work

Edited April 29, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Agree, but this guru can lie himself too. self-deception is the number one problem in this work

Suffering is built from self-deception.

[Salvijus]

3 hours ago, Moksha said:

It's incorrect to assume that enlightened beings are apathetic

Bro, you should've sayed this from the start. Now i understand what you're trying to say.

But the truth is, there are states of consciouness where there is zero love and zero hate or fear, zero emotion of any kind, zero bliss, zero joy, zero peace, zero quality of any kind, zero empathy, zero passion, zero desire, zero care, zero worry, zero interest in the world, zero involvement, , zero concern, zero regard for life or death, zero sense of time, just total absorbtion into nothingness. And ramana was quite famous of his absorbtions into this state. A being who abides in this state need not necessarily be full of passion and compassion to save the world. That's what bodhisatvas do. Some just dissolve into void and vanish without any care about others lol. Ramana just happened to have some compassion as well. So... im not sure where im going with this myself now.

Edited April 29, 2023 by Salvijus

[Moksha]

10 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Bro, you should've sayed this from the start. Now i understand what you're trying to say.

But the truth is, there are states of consciouness where there is zero love and zero hate or fear, zero emotion of any kind, zero bliss, zero joy, zero peace, zero quality of any kind, zero passion, zero desire, zero care, zero worry, zero interest in the world, zero involvement, zero concern, zero empathy, zero regard for life or death, just total absorbtion into nothingness, timeless Zero. And ramana was quite famous of his absorbtions into this state. A being who abides in this state need not necessarily be full of passion and compassion to save the world. That's what bodhisatvas do. Some just dissolve into void and vanish without any care about others lol. Ramana just happened to have some compassion as well. So... im not sure where im going with this myself now.

My bad, apparently I'm not communicating directly enough these days 

Don't confuse emotions with the facets of absolute reality. It's true the absolute doesn't feel love for anything, joy about anything, or at peace with anything. These are aspects of its absolute nature.

When he chose to speak, Ramana Maharshi often referred to sat-chit-ananda.

From the Upanishads:

"Apta-kamam atma-kamam akamam rupam: That is his real form, where he is free from all desires because all his desires are fulfilled; for the Self is all our desire."

Nothing less can satisfy the human heart. "There is no joy in the finite; there is joy only in the infinite." That is the message of the Upanishads. The infinite - free, unbounded, full of joy - is our native state. We have fallen from that state and seek it everywhere: every human activity is an attempt to fill this void. But as long as we try to fill it from outside ourselves, we are making demands on life which life cannot fulfill. Finite things can never appease an infinite hunger. Nothing can satisfy us but reunion with our real Self, which the Upanishads say is sat-chit-ananda: absolute reality, pure awareness, unconditioned joy.

[Salvijus]

@Moksha okey im losing track of what we're talking about again

So first you say, it's incorrect to assume that enlightened being will be apathetic to others. I gave you my counter-argument why there are people who may be enlightened and not care about anything in the world. Was there a further counter-argument from your side? I can't figure out... you started talking about sat-chit-ananda for some reason ?

Edited April 29, 2023 by Salvijus

[Moksha]

@Salvijus Enlightened beings don't love others as a subject loves an object. They realize that they are others, just as others are them. The boundaries dissolve. That is what I mean by love. Not the emotion of one person toward another person, but the dissolution of differences and the realization that it is all the same absolute.

Does that help or is it just more gibberish? 

[Yimpa]

Difference = Sameness 

Only a fool would believe this.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Yimpa

[Salvijus]

9 hours ago, Moksha said:

@Salvijus Enlightened beings don't love others as a subject loves an object. They realize that they are others, just as others are them. The boundaries dissolve. That is what I mean by love. Not the emotion of one person toward another person, but the dissolution of differences and the realization that it is all the same absolute.

Does that help or is it just more gibberish? 

I understand this part. 

But i'm trying to say there are different states that cause an enlightened being to behave in different ways. Yes there're states of total inclusiveness that results in nondual unconditional love you're talking about. But that's not the only state. There're also a state of total detachment, with zero interest, zero care, zero involvement etc. In that type of emptiness absorbtion an enlightened being can indeed be totally apathetic to the environment. So is there a counter-argument to that? Because an explanation of what nondual love is doesn't counter my statement imo.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Salvijus

[Vibes]

@Squeekytoy Is your buddha Jed Mckenna?

[Moksha]

11 hours ago, Salvijus said:

But i'm trying to say there are different states that cause an enlightened being to behave in different ways. Yes there're states of total inclusiveness that results in nondual unconditional love you're talking about. But that's not the only state. There're also a state of total detachment, with zero interest, zero care, zero involvement etc. In that type of emptiness absorbtion an enlightened being can indeed be totally apathetic to the environment. So is there a counter-argument to that? Because an explanation of what nondual love is doesn't counter my statement imo.

I can't speak for buddhas (@squeekytoy ), but I can speak for myself.

As I see this, detachment = disillusionment = enlightenment = love. It is all realizing the same absolute within, between, and beyond all beings.

If you are attached to an identity, it defines your reality. It creates a false sense of separation. You are different from others, and others are different from you. You believe that love, happiness, and fulfillment are states to be reached by manipulating apparent situations outside of your apparent self, and you invest all of your awareness into this endless pursuit, which only barricades you further from realizing the absolute that is always this, but is lost within its cosmic dream of separation.

The state of total detachment is the state of total inclusiveness. When the absolute realizes itself, there is nothing to be attached to, or to separate itself from. All apparent differences dissolve.

You are apathetic to the appearance of separation in the environment, but you are entirely aware of the unity within and beyond the environment. You are immersed in everything, because everything is the same absolute.

Think of it as that final moment before the drop dissolves back into the depthless ocean. It is still the subtlest hint of a drop, but its boundaries have already evaporated.

Edited April 30, 2023 by Moksha

[The0Self]

On 4/25/2023 at 7:29 AM, StarStruck said:

Possible candidates

1. Fear

Every other one you listed is actually just fear in a particular configuration.

But in the same way, fear is actually just [unconditional love; Truth] in a particular configuration.

[Salvijus]

24 minutes ago, Moksha said:

The state of total detachment is the state of total inclusiveness

I see where we diverge now. Because i would argue they are not the same. One can achieve total oneness through inclusiveness of the heart and it will have a strong quality of love, passion, creativity, desire to help others. And one can achieve total union through total detachment and awareness and it will have a quality of stillness, silence, no interest in the world. Both lead to oneness but also have interesting differences.

This video talks about it a bit 

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Salvijus

[X_X]

On 4/25/2023 at 1:29 PM, StarStruck said:

Possible candidates

1. Fear
2. Shame
3. doubt
4. pleasure
5. Sin 
6. desire
7. apathy
8. stank
9. hate
10. Pride

Those are all symptoms of lack of love. 

The opposite of love, is lack of love. 
Love is connection. 
The opposite of love is disconnection. 
Absolute Love is connection with your True Self
 

[Yimpa]

4 minutes ago, X_X said:

Absolute Love is connection with your True Self

Absolute Love is also disconnection with your False Self

[Moksha]

21 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

I see where we diverge now. Because i would argue they are not the same. One can achieve total oneness through inclusiveness of the heart and it will have a strong quality of love, passion, creativity, desire to help others. And one can achieve total union through total detachment and awareness and it will have a quality of stillness, silence, no interest in the world. Both lead to oneness but also have interesting differences.

I suspect the divergence is that you are referring to the phenomenal experiences of love, passion, creativity, and inner stillness while I am referring to the disappearance of phenomenal boundaries entirely, beyond all experiences.

Absolute love is a realization, not an emotion. It is within and beyond the cosmos.

I have had surges of love flow through me, and surges of stillness, but these are phenomenal experiences within the dream. They are pure expressions of the absolute, but they are still only expressions.

The absolute beyond the cosmos is mystery. I know its facets, but I cannot see its coreless core, only realize that I am it.

[Salvijus]

1 minute ago, Moksha said:

suspect the divergence is that you are referring to the phenomenal experiences of love, passion, creativity, and inner stillness while I am referring to the disappearance of phenomenal boundaries entirely, beyond all experiences.

No im talking about total elimination of boundaries as well. But im also saying there are two ways to eliminate your boundaries. One is through total inclusiveness, and that results in love, passion etc. And another is through detachment, that results in stillness and no care or interest in anything. And in both states there's total union, and no boundaries.

[Yimpa]

2 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Absolute love is a realization, not an emotion. 

[Yimpa]

1 minute ago, Salvijus said:

No im talking about total elimination of boundaries as well. But im also saying there are two ways to eliminate your boundaries. One is through total inclusiveness, and that results in love, passion etc. And another is through detachment, that results in stillness and no care or interest in anything. And in both states there's total union, and no boundaries.

[Salvijus]

1 minute ago, Yimpa said:

[Salvijus]

18 minutes ago, X_X said:

Love is connection. 
The opposite of love is disconnection. 

Beautifully put