Is gender a social construct?

[lizz_luna]

I was having a conversation with my best friend who identifies himself as gay. I asked the question what he liked about men, which I love to ask to my female friends, but wanted a different opinion. He replied to me saying that he was physically attracted to men, but for him, all "qualities" that men have can be embodied by women and vice versa, and that by him saying "I like that men are... " he is putting them into a box.

I can see the validity in his opinion and how we are fluid to somewhat degree, however, I can also tell different trends and polarities that tend to happen between genders, like females being more emotional, and males being more rational. This doesn't mean that a women can't be logical, and a male emotional, it just comes more natural. This is also seen in relationships where, very "feminine" women tend to be attracted to "masculine" men. 

Do you think there is a clear distinctions between woman/man besides biological differences? 

Are there clear characteristics of women/men ?

 

[Zion]

This is exactly what I was asking earlier.

27 minutes ago, lizz_luna said:

Do you think there is a clear distinctions between woman/man besides biological differences? 

Are there clear characteristics of women/men ?

So far from my perspective, there doesn't seem to be any insanely clear distinctions when looking at men & women's differences other than their physical biology & the way either one is raised, given their upbringing. 

It would imply that there are truths that you, me, & many others can see, but have deluded ourselves to invalidate/admit; as that would force us to adapt a radically new mindset which could jeopardize the current understanding & truths we personally hold men & women to in some respect. 

There is a potential underlying fear in those that see femininity & masculinity to be absolute, that there is no actual clear distinction between the two as it pertains to anything beyond each other's biology.

Of course, I still have so much more to learn through experience. I'd love to hear more perspectives on this as well..

[trenton]

I feel like there are two distinct truths to this issue which struggle to integrate one another and seemingly contradict.

On one hand gender is a social social construct. In fact all identity is imaginary. This can make it easy to get lost in relativism or aperspectival madness. Gender is a social construct because it is an identity created from our physicality. This leads to all kinds of gender roles which vary across cultures.

Gender identity includes the assumption that you are the body. If I am not the body, then I could be neither male nor female or I could be every man and woman in existence.

On the other hand there are immutable differences between men and women. There are some people who interpret you as sexist or any other negative term when pointing out immutable differences. For example, the difference in brain structure leads to a difference in psychology and how men and women experience life or perceive reality.

 

[Zion]

9 minutes ago, trenton said:

On the other hand there are immutable differences between men and women. There are some people who interpret you as sexist or any other negative term when pointing out immutable differences. For example, the difference in brain structure leads to a difference in psychology and how men and women experience life or perceive reality.

 

Right, & from this the question becomes; 

In what distinct, absolutely-true ways precisely do men & women perceive reality differently? These immutable differences in perception; what are they precisely? And what makes these differences absolutely true?

Edited April 24, 2023 by Zion

[Eyowey]

It's not a social construct but it is fluid. If a man eats estrogenic foods such as eggs, milk and meat of female animals then he will become more like a woman.

[Arthogaan]

You should read this recent blog post of Leo:
https://www.actualized.org/insights/thinking-deeply-about-the-trans-issue

[Carl-Richard]

41 minutes ago, Eyowey said:

If a man eats estrogenic foods such as eggs, milk and meat of female animals then he will become more like a woman.

Do you have a citation for that?

[Schizophonia]

52 minutes ago, Eyowey said:

It's not a social construct but it is fluid. If a man eats estrogenic foods such as eggs, milk and meat of female animals then he will become more like a woman.

Lol, the amounts of estrogen in these products are tiny unless consumed in industrial quantities, and even then their oral assimilation is miserable (should not exceed 10% of memory).
They also contain testosterone, thyroid hormones etc.
Milk can possibly seem estrogenic in people with intolerance and especially with intestinal permeability, not because of the "hormones" inside but because casomorphine can create a prolactin spike.

In contrast, anything that will create intestinal inflammation can literally duplicate your serum estradiol at the time, and that starts with certain fibers, FODMAPs. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Schizophonia

[trenton]

2 hours ago, Zion said:

Right, & from this the question becomes; 

In what distinct, absolutely-true ways precisely do men & women perceive reality differently? These immutable differences in perception; what are they precisely? And what makes these differences absolutely true?

@Zion

Given the billions of different possible brain structures within either sex, I will always be forced to generalize. These generalities will never be full proof.

For example, men and women perceive colors differently. Women see warmer colors with greater contrast whereas men are greater movement within color. This difference makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint because human societies used to be Hunter gatherer. If men chased after prey to feed the tribe and women picked different berries while using colors to distinguish edibles from poison, then it makes sense that the male and female eyes would be this way.

There are also men and women who are blind, so in this way it is not absolutely true that men and women see reality differently.

In general, women have faster reaction times when exposed to sudden noises. This makes sense because women tend to be physically weaker which therefore makes them more vulnerable to a physical threat. The evolutionary standpoint makes sense again in this case.

Again there are counter examples. There are men and women who are deaf, so they don't all perceive sounds differently. There are also gay men who have faster reaction times than straight men. There could be feminine aspects of the brain integrated into the brain of a gay man. This further blurs the boundary of any absolutely true distinction.

I would imagine that men and women experience touch differently. This makes sense because sexual pleasure works differently for different types of bodies. There are still people who are born with both a penis and vagina or who have neither.

Ultimately, all boundaries fail to hold up perfectly. The reality is that within any set of billions of neurons in our brains, the possibility for variety is too high. Given this level of variety, you would have to go to every individual and take exactly how that person experiences reality. Some men may have more typically feminine characteristics, and some women may have more typically masculine characteristics.

Perhaps the only immutable differences that hold up is when you take a smaller group or two individuals and compare them. In the case of two individuals, the bodies are physically distinct from one another, creating a clear difference. If my focus is on all men and all women, then the sample size is too big and the generalizations will eventually fail given billions of men and women.

Is there a better way to approach the differences between men and women?

[Schizophonia]

4 hours ago, lizz_luna said:

 

Do you think there is a clear distinctions between woman/man besides biological differences? 

 

That's to say ?

 

[Raze]

No

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/sax-sex/201903/new-study-blows-old-ideas-about-girls-and-boys