Two topics I want to talk about /discuss

[Someone here]

 

1 - I know it's a cliché .. But when you REALLY get it.. All those years of your childhood memories never happened. Existence knows nothing about past and future. Even the present is unstable. Can you grasp it or catch it? It keeps changing. Turning Into a past which never happened.

There is no past and no future and no present. Man that's trippy af. 

2-why do we kill bugs and insects? Do we believe that we as humans are the center of the universe? What difference is actually between cats, dogs etc and humans?  If every creature has equal value from the universe's perspective.. Then what difference between Hitler gasing the Jews and between humans gasing chicken for dinner? Do you realize the double standards and bias we have? 

[OBEler]

@Someone here the childhood memories come close to what happened. 

2. Yes it's a double Standard. But I think there are degrees of suffering and most animals cannot suffer as much as humans 

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, OBEler said:

the childhood memories come close to what happened

1-Nothing "happened". Notice that memory is just a thought. "but it comes close to what actually happened" =another thought. The past only exists as a concept in your mind. You have to imagine it first in order for you to say it exists. Do you get this? 

2 - says who? As long as those little ants that we step into everyday have a nervous system that can feel pain. Then who's to say killing them is more plausible to God than killing millions of people in world war 2?

[thenondualtankie]

@OBEler You have no idea if that's true. What if the experience of an ant being crushed is the same level of suffering as a human being crushed?

Another thought experiment: if you apply the level of suffering of a crying baby to yourself, would you also cry just as loudly?

[Carl-Richard]

19 minutes ago, thenondualtankie said:

@OBEler You have no idea if that's true. What if the experience of an ant being crushed is the same level of suffering as a human being crushed?

When it comes to pure physical pain, you could have a point, but when it comes to suffering in general, humans are capable deep and complex states of emotional distress and mental suffering. Some animals have their own version of that too, so if you care about that, maybe avoid eating animals like cows or pigs. Arguably chickens, certainly bugs, are a bit different.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Someone here]

17 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

When it comes to pure physical pain, you could have a point, but when it comes to suffering in general, humans are capable deep and complex states of emotional distress and mental suffering. Some animals have their own version of that too, so if you care about that, maybe avoid eating animals like cows or pigs. Arguably chickens, certainly bugs, are a bit different.

Don’t know. I can’t feel other animals emotions, let alone other humans. But Based off science though, human emotions don’t seem to differ from animal emotions much. Animals can feel empathy, sadness, happiness, anger, depression, about as many emotions you associate with being human you could think of.

[Yimpa]

57 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Existence knows nothing about past and future.

Well, I’ve had a lucid dream once of walking around my old house from years ago. I don’t think Reality is stupid unless you think it is.

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

If every creature has equal value from the universe's perspective.. Then what difference between Hitler gasing the Jews and between humans gasing chicken for dinner? Do you realize the double standards and bias we have? 

What’s the difference between humans killing chickens and chickens killing worms?

[Sabth]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

 

1 - I know it's a cliché .. But when you REALLY get it.. All those years of your childhood memories never happened. Existence knows nothing about past and future. Even the present is unstable. Can you grasp it or catch it? It keeps changing. Turning Into a past which never happened.

There is no past and no future and no present. Man that's trippy af. 

2-why do we kill bugs and insects? Do we believe that we as humans are the center of the universe? What difference is actually between cats, dogs etc and humans?  If every creature has equal value from the universe's perspective.. Then what difference between Hitler gasing the Jews and between humans gasing chicken for dinner? Do you realize the double standards and bias we have? 

I kill pests but I don't kill other animals. Food, they don't have the same intelligence as humans do. 

So you'll see those who are involved in war aren't that intelligent or are made for that. So it was easier for them to be killed. Their value aren't the same as one individual thinker. 

If chicken are more intelligent than humans then it wouldn't be killed. 

The Chinese eat cat&dogs meat. They kill people. Murder. Just like any other meat. Putting it in a freezer. So I got a little eerie thinking how we put animals meat in there ...  (Humans murder aren't a new things. There's a baby soup. Dismembering dead body,..., ) Huh? 

[OBEler]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

1-Nothing "happened". Notice that memory is just a thought. "but it comes close to what actually happened" =another thought. The past only exists as a concept in your mind. You have to imagine it first in order for you to say it exists. Do you get this? 

@Someone here the past only exist as a concept. Still reality is not so simple. I can go meta and take another perspective. Even if this meta perspective is also only conceptual. From this meta perspective you can see that the past somehow happened in some form even if it's now just a concept of the past and therefore not Real. 

You can just say the past never happened if you are in the complete now. I call this the now-perspective. This is like death. But take another perspective and the past somehow happened

[Yimpa]

11 minutes ago, OBEler said:

From this meta perspective you can see that the past somehow happened in some form even if it's now just a concept of the past and therefore not Real. 

Can you define what you mean by “Real” in this context?

[OBEler]

@Yimpa not real= not happening right now or happened in some point in the ever changing now

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Don’t know. I can’t feel other animals emotions, let alone other humans.

Bro, you don't have to do this solipsism loop all the time ?

Edited April 24, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Yimpa said:

Well, I’ve had a lucid dream once of walking around my old house from years ago. I don’t think Reality is stupid unless you think it is.

What exactly does that prove? 

1 hour ago, Yimpa said:

What’s the difference between humans killing chickens and chickens killing worms?

No difference objectively. But all the difference In the world subjectively. 

 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Sabth said:

If chicken are more intelligent than humans then it wouldn't be killed. 

So the metric of supremacy is intelligence? 

1 hour ago, Sabth said:

The Chinese eat cat&dogs meat

They eat bats and snakes as well. Believe It or not. 

 

[Yimpa]

10 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Bro, you don't have to do this solipsism loop all the time ?

Haha, before you edited I was about to say that it may not be just intruisive thoughts. There’s more that could be interpreted, such as how some people have difficulty understanding their emotions and feelings (such as myself)

https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/difficulty-identifying-emotions-linked-to-poor-mental-health-in-autistic-people/

2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

What exactly does that prove? 

Reality does not have to lock onto one way of experiencing Itself in order for Reality to be complete. 

I can sense that you are trying to rationalize your beliefs. I am here to open your mind (and mine as well!)

[Someone here]

34 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Someone here the past only exist as a concept. Still reality is not so simple. I can go meta and take another perspective. Even if this meta perspective is also only conceptual. From this meta perspective you can see that the past somehow happened in some form even if it's now just a concept of the past and therefore not Real. 

You can just say the past never happened if you are in the complete now. I call this the now-perspective. This is like death. But take another perspective and the past somehow happened

All perspectives happenen now. Again, you have to first imagine a perspective. The past comes out of the present.. Not the other way around. 

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Reality does not have to lock onto one way of experiencing Itself in order for Reality to be complete. 

I didn't say that. You dreaming of your old house proves nothing about the existence of the past. 

You are just not conscious of how you are imagining the past as a concept. 

26 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Bro, you don't have to do this solipsism loop all the time ?

Idk wth are you talkin about. 

I just stated a fact. You can't experience my pov from yours, can you? 

This is just a fact. Has nothing to do with solipsism. 

[Sabth]

The past can be awakened, and once awakened it will be lost. For many times in the past, I have dreamt of my previous house and see the people in it are getting old. And the house was covered in sand almost covering it all. And then I no longer had such dreams. My past are calling me back. After a while it's the end. 

Or things like after I read my diaries for the second time/for the first time after a while, when I've forgotten it, the second or third time reading it it will no longer producing the same effect. Because I've already know it. I think if it was never awakened, it will last forever. Until the day it was re covered. 

There was something, like a spirit that was trapped in memories. (Looking back at that dreams, it seems like they are calling me back) but after a while, I no longer got such dreams.  

[Yimpa]

26 minutes ago, Someone here said:

All perspectives happenen now. Again, you have to first imagine a perspective. The past comes out of the present.. Not the other way around. 

If all perspectives are happening now, then you are essentially allowing my perspective to exist as well: The present comes out of the past.

20 minutes ago, Someone here said:

You are just not conscious of how you are imagining the past as a concept. 

It’s also possible that I don’t need to be conscious of how I am imagining the past as a concept. 

Does Reality need to be conscious of how It is imagining the past as a concept for Reality to Exist?

[_Archangel_]

@Someone here 1) if only everyone truly would get this...so much more peace.
2) "..The universe is hostile, so Impersonal. Devour to survive So it is, so it's always been..."