Isn´t awareness just a thought?

[RedLine]

Rupert Spira says  when you see an object in fron of you, you can realize you are aware of the object in front of you. But isn´t that "realization" a thought?

 

What is really happeing is direct experience of reality. There is just reality happening but awareness implies there are one that is aware of something that, a duality. All this awareness stuff seem like artificial ideas.  I don´t get the whole awareness frame. 

 

 

[Yimpa]

39 minutes ago, RedLine said:

Rupert Spira says  when you see an object in fron of you, you can realize you are aware of the object in front of you. But isn´t that "realization" a thought?

What he fails to point out or see is that there’s actually no “you” nor an “object”. 

39 minutes ago, RedLine said:

What is really happeing is direct experience of reality. There is just reality happening

As it happens, Reality isn’t “happening”. Reality IS.

39 minutes ago, RedLine said:

but awareness implies there are one that is aware of something that, a duality. All this awareness stuff seem like artificial ideas.  I don´t get the whole awareness frame. 

Everyone is going to have their own idea of what “awareness” means. Don’t get too hung up on that.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Yimpa

[Leo Gura]

By awareness he just means experience/being.

[Yimpa]

48 minutes ago, RedLine said:

Rupert Spira says  when you see an object in fron of you, you can realize you are aware of the object in front of you.

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

By awareness he just means experience/being.

 

You are a computer screen experiencing a human being looking at yourself 

[gettoefl]

18 hours ago, RedLine said:

Rupert Spira says  when you see an object in fron of you, you can realize you are aware of the object in front of you. But isn´t that "realization" a thought?

 

What is really happeing is direct experience of reality. There is just reality happening but awareness implies there are one that is aware of something that, a duality. All this awareness stuff seem like artificial ideas.  I don´t get the whole awareness frame. 

 

 

you see an object, can you see that you see it?

that is what awareness does

it sees the person seeing

stay like that, it's your true nature

to work on this is called mindfulness

[Moksha]

Your instinct about the illusory nature of subject > object is correct. The absolute is beyond witness and witnessed.

Awareness doesn't require an object, any more than intelligence or love or freedom. These are unconditional facets of the absolute, not attributes, seamless like an infinite diamond.

[Hojo]

You can exist without thought. Or it is a way you can be. When you stop thinking you stop existing as you tho. Until the next time you think. Like a dream you don't know you are you until you awaken and see that you were dreaming. If you stop thoughts life will be a dream you will not know who or what you are but you will be there. Even if you die you won't even know you are dead but you will be there. You won't know you are dead until you awaken to another state and be able to self reflect on what happened like a dream. These states are states in which no ego or identity exists you are not there but you as awareness have no self reflection.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Hojo

[Razard86]

7 minutes ago, Hojo said:

You can exist without thought. Or it is a way you can be. When you stop thinking you stop existing as you tho. Until the next time you think. Like a dream you don't know you are you until you awaken and see that you were dreaming. If you stop thoughts life will be a dream you will not know who or what you are but you will be there. Even if you die you won't even know you are dead but you will be there. You won't know you are dead until you awaken to another state and be able to self reflect on what happened like a dream. These states are states in which no ego or identity exists you are not there but you as awareness are no self reflection.

There are no states absent of identity as identity is story. You cannot fully experience something as a something without identity. I'm noticing people keep confusing what true ego or self is. Your sense of existing, your I AM is your true SELF. THIS WILL NEVER DIE. BECAUSE IT WAS NEVER BORN.

What you call ego, is just the belief you are a human and all of those life experiences and belief systems. But the sense of existing, your presence is what you are and that is what is referred to as Awareness. To deny awareness, (which some do) is equivalent to denying the present moment. It's the ultimate delusion, because it's to deny direct experience. 

[RedLine]

57 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

you see an object, can you see that you see it?

that is what awareness does

it sees the person seeing

stay like that, it's your true nature

to work on this is called mindfulness

Mindfulness is not about acknowledging the witness behind object but to realize the impermanence and no-self of experience. That "awareness" is a fiction that you also need to deconstruct.

This whole thing of you see you are seeing an object, you mention in the two first paragraphs, are mental constructions. It is uselful to start practicing meditaiton but it is not real.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 24, 2023 by RedLine

[Yimpa]

38 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Your instinct about the illusory nature of subject > object is correct. The absolute is beyond witness and witnessed.

If the Absolute is Absolute, then it is not only beyond witness and witnessed. It’s also the witness and the witnessed.

18 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

There are no states absent of identity as identity is story. You cannot fully experience something as a something without identity.

Paradoxically, there are higher states of consciousness in which your identity transcends human consciousness. 

You no longer merely experience. There is both story and no story simultaneously, beyond time. You are EVERYTHING. Perhaps this is what Leo means by Alien Consciousness, but who tf knows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Take what I’m saying with a grain of salt. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Yimpa

[OldManCorcoran]

It is conceptual to some extent. Sights see themselves, the sight exists, and to exist it has to appear to be seen, because all sights are literally the thing that is seen. Taking awareness away from blue, is just removing blue... And the idea that awareness is something which exists in addition to the fact of existence itself, or in addition to whichever object, is clearly wrong.

Awareness is a word which realistically has no meaning. You can just say things exist, it means the exact same thing.

[Yimpa]

2 minutes ago, OldManCorcoran said:

Awareness is a word which realistically has no meaning. You can just say things exist, it means the exact same thing.

Careful. That would mean that I can say that drinking bleach is the same as drinking purified water.

[OldManCorcoran]

21 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

There are no states absent of identity as identity is story. You cannot fully experience something as a something without identity. I'm noticing people keep confusing what true ego or self is. Your sense of existing, your I AM is your true SELF. THIS WILL NEVER DIE. BECAUSE IT WAS NEVER BORN.

What you call ego, is just the belief you are a human and all of those life experiences and belief systems. But the sense of existing, your presence is what you are and that is what is referred to as Awareness. To deny awareness, (which some do) is equivalent to denying the present moment. It's the ultimate delusion, because it's to deny direct experience. 

You're definitely incorrect, and its because you have not experienced ego death. No identity is necessary, that is why ego death is life changing. It's a very serious event not like space cake musings.

Ego death is exceptionally rare. Exceptionally.

Most psychedelic breakthroughs cause loss of center. Which means all phenomena no longer appears to be happening anywhere, it's just sort of everywhere without boundary. The ego (just the sense of self period) is often still in tact.

[Moksha]

9 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

If the Absolute is Absolute, then it is not only beyond witness and witnessed. It’s also the witness and the witnessed.

It is the seamless essence of the witness and the witnessed, appearing to be what it is not.

[OldManCorcoran]

3 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Careful. That would mean that I can say that drinking bleach is the same as drinking purified water.

That's unrelated.

If there hypothetically was literally nothing not even god not even consciousness, and then there was a big bang and there was just blue. The actual qualia called blue. Then see how with the blue coming into being, it has to seem to be seen. Because the visual quality of blue is what it is, meaning to exist it can't be any other way.

That is why the term is meaningless, largely, because you could just say blue exists, or even just say that everything "is". There is not any need at all to introduce some other factor into the equation. What is the difference between blue existing, and blue existing in awareness? There is zero difference because as long as blue exists, it will exist identical to the concept of "blue within awareness", because the seen sight, the qualia, is what exists. It can't actually exist in any other way.

Sights can exist, and to exist they must exist precisely as they are seen. Atoms can exist. There is no categorical difference whatsoever between these things, both things with and without qualities. It's just all what "is", right? So realistically, the term itself is irrelevant.

[Yimpa]

6 minutes ago, OldManCorcoran said:

You're definitely incorrect, and its because you have not experienced ego death.

For something to die, it had to exist in the first place. 

Assuming that we both agree on that, the next question is: Does ego exist? If so, where is its location?

[OldManCorcoran]

1 minute ago, Yimpa said:

For something to die, it had to exist in the first place. 

Assuming that we both agree on that, the next question is: Does ego exist? If so, where is its location?

It exists exactly as much as blue exists when you see blue. Ego death is like when you are looking at blue, then look away. Identity is always with us and present, then it just isn't there at all.

When you look away from blue, existence is still here. If you saw blue since birth and thought that is what you are, it would be inconceivable to imagine a continuation of existence in absence of it. But obviously we know because it happens all the time, that reality goes nowhere if we remove blue from our field of vision. That is how ego is for us, it might be incomprehensible without having had ego death, that sights can appear to nobody.

[Hojo]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

There are no states absent of identity as identity is story. You cannot fully experience something as a something without identity. I'm noticing people keep confusing what true ego or self is. Your sense of existing, your I AM is your true SELF. THIS WILL NEVER DIE. BECAUSE IT WAS NEVER BORN.

What you call ego, is just the belief you are a human and all of those life experiences and belief systems. But the sense of existing, your presence is what you are and that is what is referred to as Awareness. To deny awareness, (which some do) is equivalent to denying the present moment. It's the ultimate delusion, because it's to deny direct experience. 

When you reach a state with no ego or self you can be there you just can't question being there. So in a sense you aren't there and can only know you were there if you wake up in a body where you know what you are. I have died or come as close to as possible where I became void and I remeber it happened simply because I emerged  into a state where I can self reflect. In that state I could have woken as a baby and not known I was in that state at all but I woke up with a pre existing identity allowing me to know  where I was. You exist as a void when you have no identity and its the true self. Now I don't know if I was existing with ought any ego at all because I was sad in the void. But eventually I had to let go of everything and become void and that was what set me free.

[Carl-Richard]

22 hours ago, RedLine said:

Rupert Spira says  when you see an object in fron of you, you can realize you are aware of the object in front of you. But isn´t that "realization" a thought?

It's more like the realization that you were thinking and now you're not.

 

22 hours ago, RedLine said:

What is really happeing is direct experience of reality. There is just reality happening but awareness implies there are one that is aware of something that, a duality. All this awareness stuff seem like artificial ideas.  I don´t get the whole awareness frame. 

You're thinking about attention, not awareness. Attention deals with stuff like paying attention to objects. The truth is that you can't not be aware. It's just that thinking makes you forget some of the aspects of being aware.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Salvijus]

 

2 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Does ego exist? If so, where is its location?

99% of the time when people say I, they are pointing to the ego. You can find the location of the ego by asking "who am I" and penetrating awareness real deep into the psyche. It's actually a tangable object

Edited April 24, 2023 by Salvijus