Question about Jed McKenna book

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Moksha said:

You see it differently than me ?

What is happening is not real. The absolute doesn't happen to anything, nor does anything happen to it. It is changeless, seamless, and beyond experience.

6 hours ago, Moksha said:

 

Then, there are two, the absolute and its creation. That is not possible, what is happening is the absolute, the only relative thing is the interpretation, which as Yimpa says is also the absolute, but it doesn't seem so. its essence is immutable? yes in the sense that it is unlimited and therefore perfection. but it would be to say that the unlimited is immutable because it contains infinite mutation

 

[Yimpa]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Then, there are two, the absolute and its creation. That is not possible, what is happening is the absolute, the only relative thing is the interpretation, which as Yimpa says is also the absolute, but it doesn't seem so.

A true magician never reveals their secrets.

A TRUE magician comprehends all the secrets.

[Moksha]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Then, there are two, the absolute and its creation. That is not possible, what is happening is the absolute, the only relative thing is the interpretation, which as Yimpa says is also the absolute, but it doesn't seem so. its essence is immutable? yes in the sense that it is unlimited and therefore perfection. but it would be to say that the unlimited is immutable because it contains infinite mutation

There is only uncreated reality. Creation is imagination. It isn't real. There is no beginning, no change, and no ending in the absolute.

When you dreamed last night, you probably believed your dream to be real. Now that you are awake, it's obvious that the dream wasn't real. Just because you dreamed it doesn't make it real. It only seemed real at the time.

When you directly realize the absolute, you will see that the waking state is no more real than the dreaming state. The person having a dream is itself being dreamed.

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Moksha said:

believed your dream to be real. Now that you are awake, it's obvious that the dream wasn't real.

No, my dream was totally real. That is the reality, there is nothing else. that's what you realize taking psychedelics, reality is the experience that is happening, nothing else exists. there is no real vs not real, there is the experience and that's it. 

[Yimpa]

Oh my God…

…It’s ALL Imagination!

[Breakingthewall]

15 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Oh my God…

…It’s ALL Imagination!

28 minutes ago, Moksha said:

 

Ah, so there is someone imagining, and something that is the result of this act, right? Well, no, it doesn't work like that. It's the reality in motion .

[Yimpa]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

Ah, so there is someone imagining, and something that is the result of this act, right? Well, no, it doesn't work like that. It's the reality in motion .

Notice how I never said that there is someone imagining, and something that is the result of this act, right?

YOU did 

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Yimpa said:

Notice how I never said that there is someone imagining, and something that is the result of this act, right?

YOU did 

You said that everything is imaginary. It implies that

[Yimpa]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

You said that everything is imaginary. It implies that

EVERYTHING.

[Moksha]

21 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

No, my dream was totally real. That is the reality, there is nothing else. that's what you realize taking psychedelics, reality is the experience that is happening, nothing else exists. there is no real vs not real, there is the experience and that's it. 

If you believe that whatever happens in your mind is absolute reality, you are ensnared in imagination.

The cosmos is imagination, but reality is beyond the cosmos. The absolute is love without experience, light without reflection, and silence without echo.

[Yimpa]

I need to communicate this clearly.

Trying to comprehend reality deeper from human level consciousness is very, very silly. Guess what? It won’t work! Did you really think (lol) that you would be able to access higher levels of consciousness from the human identity? Humans prioritize survival over Truth. 

Don’t take this personally 

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Moksha said:

you believe that whatever happens in your mind is absolute reality, you are ensnared in imagination.

There is not difference in my mind or outside my mind. 

reality is what happens, this constant movement. reality is a like a mind that creates things but the mind is those things, because the mind is nothing, just the shapes that becomes. these things may look like a stone or a thought, there is no difference. the illusion is that it seems that you are in a situation where you perceive things when you are the whole situation. imagine that instead of this experience what happens is that you have taken a lot of lsd and reality is fractals in motion. that is reality, and that's it. now reality is this with all its conceptual history. this is being created right now, just like the fractals. there is only this, now. this is the absolute.

 

[Moksha]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

reality is what happens, this constant movement.

When you dream at night, a movie plays upon the screen and you believe that it is real.

When you wake up in the morning, a movie plays upon the screen and you believe that it is real.

When you awaken, a movie plays upon the screen and you directly realize that it is not real.

[Breakingthewall]

12 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

@Breakingthewall in staying on topic, read Jed's version of Plato's Cinema allegory. It's there for a reason. You (and Leo) are talking about the light of the projector, and you think that's the truth because that's all you've seen (and you haven't "done the math"). Moksha is talking about the sunlight outside the theatre which you never even suspected. This is what I meant when you asked me where Jed ended up and I said just a little bit "Further", which is his motto and now you know why. Stop thinking that you can just take psychedelics and know what's true. You can't, and you don't. 

You're wrong, I don't take psychedelics to see the truth, I take psychedelics to see the truth while sober. there is no projector and film and the sun, or something false and another real, there is only one, the absolute. your mind projecting truths and falsehoods prevents you from seeing. 

It's very simple, god is exactly here, dancing. There is nothing else. Just open you eyes and see the divinity (maybe some psychedelic could help to that)

Edited April 25, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Breakingthewall]

@Moksha 

Let's see, you're right. Under all mutation is the immutable absolute, which is all mutation. reality is what it is, what is apparently changing is what is unchanged, but what is unchanged does not stop changing. if you want to see the unchanging absolute you must see it in the flow of change. what does this gibberish mean? that this is what there is, there is nothing behind it, there is only a lack of awareness to perceive it 

dream, imaginary, absolute, relative, imply duality. the only thing relative is the interpretation of what is

Edited April 25, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[gettoefl]

epic stuff, thank you dear heavyweight gladiators ?

Edited April 25, 2023 by gettoefl

[Moksha]

12 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

if you want to see the unchanging absolute you must see it in the flow of change.

This belief is what holds you back. As long as you identify as change, you are unable to directly realize the changeless absolute within.

When you do, it will be like waking up from a dream. You will see with absolute clarity that existence is all just forms arising and dissolving within the imagination of time and space.

You have to realize the absolute before you are able to see the cosmos for what it is. Concepts, memories, and desires are distractions from this realization. You don't have to realize all of the absolute to wake up. The tiniest particle of it will set you free.

Enjoy the dream as long as you like. There are so many great adventures. Just don't expect enduring fulfillment from any of them. When you are ready for the anchor of the absolute, you will realize that it is always here.

[Breakingthewall]

24 minutes ago, Moksha said:

This belief is what holds you back.

I see that you do not understand me, I am not talking about beliefs but direct experience. If I were speaking from beliefs or conceptually, it would be nonsense. Obviously, in order to begin to see and understand reality, you have to completely leave behind any belief or idea, just see directly. your way of looking at it is: reality is the immutable absolute, and all apparent constant mutation is false. false? Why? because within you you find absolute peace and happiness? and what with that? I know very well what the absolute is, I have done  5meo more that I remember, so much so that meditating I realize the absolute in 10 minutes, fullness and glory. and? this is, let's say, the flavor of the absolute. but it also has form, because it takes all forms, intelligence, intention. The absolute is the reality. the way to understand reality is by observing it, and the way to observe reality is with a completely empty mind. It's not me who's stuck with ideas, it's you!? the idea of absolute/relative duality, but anyway, it's a pleasure to argue with you because it makes me observe the reality

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Moksha]

@Breakingthewall I have no desire to argue with you 

If you choose to spend your life sailing across the surface of creation, of course I wish you the best. It is a great adventure. All I'm saying is that if you find yourself lost at sea, the anchor is always within if you need it.

Ship ahoy! ?

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

you choose to spend your life sailing across the surface

I choose to realize the absolute to sail masterfully the surface. If the surface exist, let's surf it while it exists, that's what it's for.