Question about Jed McKenna book

[Holymoly]

If all that exists are states of consciousnesses how can self-realisation or truth realisation not be a state of consciousness 

[anaj]

The argument is that It's not a state because it's the mode by which states are manifesting. It's a difference in the way in which states are taken in within consciousness.

[r0ckyreed]

Emotions and the truth are not the same.

Most people want to be happy and don’t want the truth. That is what Jed is getting at. Altering your state does not mean that you have realized truth, although realizing truth does typically happen in an altered state otherwise you’d be aware of it now.

[Moksha]

Direct realization is still a state of consciousness, but closer to letting go of all states. If you want to watch the movie, you have to pay the price of admission, even if the cost is the lowest denomination of imagination.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Moksha

[cjoseph90]

which one of his books is this?

[Leo Gura]

I promise you it's a state too.

You can't escape state. All states are Truth. Just not all are conscious of it.

If Truth were distinct from state then you'd have duality, not Oneness. Any state you're in is Absolute Truth.

Edited April 25, 2023 by Leo Gura

[UnbornTao]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I promise you it's a state too.

You can't escape state. All states are Truth. Just not all are consciousness.

If Truth were distinct from state then you'd have duality, not Oneness. Any state you're in is Absolute Truth.

Is absolute truth a state, then?

When using the distinction "state", we might as well be talking about different things.

State sounds like relative stuff. Is it possible that Truth is independent from state?

[Moksha]

@UnbornTao The absolute has been called a state, but I see it as beyond states, all of which imply change.

Direct realization is a state because it is the intersection of absolute and relative reality. It is the appearance of awakening, but ultimately there is nothing to awaken. Remove the appearance of the relative, and states dissolve along with it.

[Yimpa]

7 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Is absolute truth a state, then?

When using the distinction "state", we might as well be talking about different things.

State sounds like relative stuff. Is it possible that Truth is independent from state?

Truth is all that exists. That’s precisely why all states are Truth. 
 

 

[Cooper]

Self-realization is a state of consciousness, but the Self itself is not a state of consciousness. The Self is the changeless substratum underlying the changing states of consciousness. It is consciousness itself. States of consciousness are like gold ornaments and consciousness is the gold the ornaments are made out of.

[Yimpa]

2 hours ago, Cooper said:

Self-realization is a state of consciousness, but the Self itself is not a state of consciousness. 

What if Self is a state onto Itself?

[Moksha]

7 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Truth is all that exists. That’s precisely why all states are Truth. 

All states are imaginary. In their essence, they are still the absolute, but appearing as what they are not.

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Moksha said:

All states are imaginary. In their essence, they are still the absolute, but appearing as what they are not.

They appear as what they are not just because you don't see what they really are. we meditate or do psychedelics to realize the "truth" but the truth is the existence. The change from one state to another in a repetitive way is what makes us realize that you we the truth, whatever state we are in.

[Moksha]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

They appear as what they are not just because you don't see what they really are. we meditate or do psychedelics to realize the "truth" but the truth is the existence. The change from one state to another in a repetitive way is what makes us realize that you we the truth, whatever state we are in.

The essence of phenomena, which is the absolute, doesn't change. All states are illusion. Even the states of hiding from and realizing itself are not actually real. It is all the imagination of the absolute, which is fine, as long it is seen as such. It can still enjoy the dream, without apparent desires and fears obscuring its true nature.

[TheAlchemist]

Why couldn't there be a state of all states? The color of all colors. The plant of all plants. The feeling of all feelings. The state of all states.

[Moksha]

15 minutes ago, TheAlchemist said:

Why couldn't there be a state of all states? The color of all colors. The plant of all plants. The feeling of all feelings. The state of all states.

The absolute is sometimes referred to as the absolute state, but I see it as beyond all states. It is white (all colors, the cosmos), it is black (absence of colors, the void), and it is beyond both.

It's a good example of why the absolute is called a mystery, beyond logic and names. The human mind can't comprehend truth beyond paradox.

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Moksha said:

All states are illusion

5 hours ago, Moksha said:

 

The illusion is that there seems to be a you in front of what is not you, but what is happening is real, or as real as anything can be. the absolute is exactly this, this moment. what is relative is the interpretation we give it, as something that develops over time and as something divided into two parts: you vs not you. but apart from that interpretation, the absolute is the actual experience

[Yimpa]

9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The illusion is that there seems to be a you in front of what is not you, but what is happening is real, or as real as anything can be. the absolute is exactly this, this moment. what is relative is the interpretation we give it, as something that develops over time and as something divided into two parts: you vs not you. but apart from that interpretation, the absolute is the actual experience

And the relative is the Absolute.

[Moksha]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The illusion is that there seems to be a you in front of what is not you, but what is happening is real, or as real as anything can be. the absolute is exactly this, this moment. what is relative is the interpretation we give it, as something that develops over time and as something divided into two parts: you vs not you. but apart from that interpretation, the absolute is the actual experience

You see it differently than me ?

What is happening is not real. The absolute doesn't happen to anything, nor does anything happen to it. It is changeless, seamless, and beyond experience.

[Yimpa]

13 minutes ago, Moksha said:

You see it differently than me ?

Isn’t that amazing? Infinity loses nothing from differences or samenesses. 

Edited April 24, 2023 by Yimpa