Why we fail to awaken

[trenton]

There is a reason why nearly everybody fails to awaken. We try all kinds of spiritual practices, yet we are guided by hidden maps which cannot be found by looking inward. Instead these hidden maps influence how we self reflect and we are often blind to how they influence us. Ken Wilber used spiral dynamics as an example of hidden maps, but there are others such as mental disorders, trauma, and the survival drive.

The survival drive is the main reason why we fail to awaken. For example, my identity as the mind is not merely an intellectual error, but rather a survival strategy. Through disociating from the external world, I attempt to keep myself safe from those who could hurt me. For example, there was a lot of verbal abuse when I went to school, and I had no control over the situation. This lack of control leads to the I don't care attitude as I live in my head. Of course this can happen everywhere in life like with my mom's abusive boyfriend who she refused to evict no matter how much I begged. Being stuck in my head is designed to remove me from traumatic situations, thus serving as armor from emotional pain and heartbreak.

paradoxically, this is how I end up creating most of my suffering as I try to avoid suffering. I end up stuck in my head, judging myself, and giving the ego undue credit for its influence on life both good and bad. Blaming myself is designed to insist on some illusion of control even though deep down I know this not to be true. The repeated self punishment results In feelings of depression and anxiety as well as sleeping problems among other things. The survival drive keeps my attached to falsehoods even if I don't believe them. It could be an unconscious belief or unconsciousness In general which prevents effective self reflection with which to raise our consciousness.

In reality identifying as the internal world is optional. If I am not separate from the external world, then the distinction between self and other becomes untenable as the self now includes the entire experience rather than something separate from experience. Identifying as something separate from the external world happens as part of the survival drive and it often cannot be overcome simply through self reflecting. Most of the time we will fail and we will not awaken.

Part of the problem is the social stigma around psychedelics. Many of us realistically will not be able to use psychedelics because of our life situation preventing travel or because the legal risks are too great for us. A divide in this forum is created as people with access to tools like psychedelics have a much better chance of awakening than the average Joe working a 9-5 job and doing a bit of meditation. Without making serious changes to the way society functions, it is inevitable that nearly everybody will fail to awaken no matter what guru you follow. No matter how hard we try, given our limitations the survival drive is too strong and it prevents us from self reflecting effectively. Some people try doing this kind of work for 40 years and they fail.

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, trenton said:

No matter how hard we try, given our limitations the survival drive is too strong and it prevents us from self reflecting effectively. 

You don't awaken through effort alone. You can spend your entire life on psychedelics or meditation retreats and remain as conditioned by the cosmos as when you first began.

Awakening requires realizing the root cause of your suffering. You have to see at the deepest level that external supports always fail. There is nothing outside of yourself that can fulfill you.

If the realizing is true, the absolute no longer chases external fulfillment. It lets go of the illusion of false identification, and directly sees that it not only fills this form, but overflows within and beyond all forms.

[Yimpa]

2 hours ago, trenton said:

Part of the problem is the social stigma around psychedelics. Many of us realistically will not be able to use psychedelics because of our life situation preventing travel or because the legal risks are too great for us.

Don’t make this a limited belief for why you can’t take psychedelics, though (assuming that you want to take them).

I’ve taken both ketamine and cannabis legally in Texas of all places. If there is a will, there is a way.

[trenton]

@Yimpa I do want to take psychedelics. I am not saying it is impossible for me to ever try them. Given my current life situation it is not possible, but this could change. I am currently trying to convince my boss to give me a raise.

[Water by the River]

Hi Trenton,

deciding factor for me was a very efficient meditation system (Mahamudra), outlined in "Pointing Out the Great Way, Brown", and several other books. I have rudimentary to average knowledge of most meditation systems, and this one is unique. In my humble perspective, the highest developed system on the planet (most people praciticing and refining it in Tibet for the longest time of any system, at least to my knowledge).  It details the steps and what happens like no other system I am aware of.

If you try that, and add some psychedelics, at least in my perspective that is the best shot you have.

And you can not know what your future path brings. Balance your life, and see what comes!

Bon voyage!

Water by the River

[Breakingthewall]

On 18/4/2023 at 2:34 PM, trenton said:

For example, there was a lot of verbal abuse when I went to school, and I had no control over the situation. This lack of control leads to the I don't care attitude as I live in my head. Of course this can happen everywhere in life like with my mom's abusive boyfriend who she refused to evict no matter how much I begged. Being stuck in my head is designed to remove me from traumatic situations, thus serving as armor from emotional pain and heartbreak.

You have to realize that all this has been created by you. It's defiant, why would you have created all that crap? A challenge. there is nothing outside of you. "outside" does not even exist as a concept. As soon as you situate yourself minimally outside of yourself, you are fragmented, asleep. psychedelics are necessary. get them anyway. there are people who say they can wake up without them, well... maybe. but when you have trucks of shit in your ego, as you do, psychedelics are an essential aid. research how to grow mushrooms from spores, travel, anything

 

[Yimpa]

8 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

As soon as you situate yourself minimally outside of yourself, you are fragmented, asleep.

I’ve had experiences lately of this not being an issue at all.

Perhaps Alien in nature. 

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Yimpa said:

I’ve had experiences lately of this not being an issue at all.

Perhaps Alien in nature. 

I mean to think that there are others. You vs others, not to became a different you. You could became an alien but it's still you

 

[Yimpa]

@Breakingthewall I don’t see an issue with thinking that there are others, or even believing that there are others. 

Now the beliefs we have about others… that could very well lead to all sorts of human troubles. 

[Moksha]

18 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

there are people who say they can wake up without them, well... maybe.

I awoke without psychedelics, not because I am superior or inferior, but because the absolute chose this as the inner pilgrimage to itself within this form. People awaken in many ways, and just because psychedelics has helped you doesn't mean it is the universal or preferable path for everyone else.

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Moksha said:

I awoke without psychedelics, not because I am superior or inferior, but because the absolute chose this as the inner pilgrimage to itself within this form. People awaken in many ways, and just because psychedelics has helped you doesn't mean it is the universal or preferable path for everyone else.

psychedelics are the tool when you want to transcend the ego, the mind that identifies, that takes itself as a process from past to future and you can't. I also spent a year meditating 3 hours a day, and deconstructing all day, it's not as easy as doing a psychedelic and that's it. but without them for many it is impossible to get out of the trap of the mind .

but they are also something else: they are tools of understanding once you have transcended the conceptual mind. You cannot imagine the clarity that they can provide you by modifying the structures of your mind

[Breakingthewall]

9 hours ago, Yimpa said:

@Breakingthewall I don’t see an issue with thinking that there are others, or even believing that there are others. 

Now the beliefs we have about others… that could very well lead to all sorts of human troubles. 

If you want to be awake, you have to see with total clarity that reality is within you, that outside is something that does not even exist as a concept. the others exist, inside your mind. therefore, they are not "others"

[Yimpa]

11 hours ago, Moksha said:

I awoke without psychedelics, not because I am superior or inferior, but because the absolute chose this as the inner pilgrimage to itself within this form. People awaken in many ways, and just because psychedelics has helped you doesn't mean it is the universal or preferable path for everyone else.

And I’ve had mystical experiences on substances that are not traditionally considered psychedelics (i.e. ketamine and cannabis). Funny how that works.

(I’ve never tried traditional psychedelics, but I am open to one day.)

 

[Moksha]

9 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

psychedelics are the tool when you want to transcend the ego, the mind that identifies, that takes itself as a process from past to future and you can't. I also spent a year meditating 3 hours a day, and deconstructing all day, it's not as easy as doing a psychedelic and that's it. but without them for many it is impossible to get out of the trap of the mind .

but they are also something else: they are tools of understanding once you have transcended the conceptual mind. You cannot imagine the clarity that they can provide you by modifying the structures of your mind

I'm glad psychedelics have helped you transcend the ego, just pointing out that they are not the universal or ideal path for everyone.

More important than temporarily transcending the ego is remaining in the silent absolute as the perpetual flow state within the dream. Maybe it happens for some on psychedelics alone, but if so I haven't seen it. It seems an endless roller coaster of highs and lows, with no enduring direct awareness.

[Breakingthewall]

6 hours ago, Moksha said:

Maybe it happens for some on psychedelics alone, but if so I haven't seen it. It seems an endless roller coaster of highs and lows, with no enduring direct awareness.

How many people do you know who have a clear intention to deepen reality to the maximum and for that use, among other things, psychedelics?

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

How many people do you know who have a clear intention to deepen reality to the maximum and for that use, among other things, psychedelics?

The road to hell is paved with clear intentions 

I don't speak to anything except my direct experience, and the deeper I realize the absolute the more lucid, silent, and free I become.

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Moksha said:

The road to hell is paved with clear intentions 

I don't speak to anything except my direct experience, and the deeper I realize the absolute the more lucid, silent, and free I become.

How do you know if others are same or maybe more lucid and silent but have realized how to fully open up to the glory of what reality is at a depth never seen before? Don't you give that even a chance? What are you basing yourself on to be 100% sure of denying this? Or maybe you need that?

[Moksha]

11 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

How do you know if others are same or maybe more lucid and silent but have realized how to fully open up to the glory of what reality is at a depth never seen before? Don't you give that even a chance? What are you basing yourself on to be 100% sure of denying this? Or maybe you need that?

I only trust direct knowledge. I have no judgment toward others on their individual path to the absolute. Everyone is navigating their own apparent boat on their own apparent river, sailing into the same ocean.

[Yimpa]

23 hours ago, Moksha said:

More important than temporarily transcending the ego is remaining in the silent absolute as the perpetual flow state within the dream. Maybe it happens for some on psychedelics alone, but if so I haven't seen it. It seems an endless roller coaster of highs and lows, with no enduring direct awareness.

Yes, I have experienced this on high dose of ketamine. 

The days and months after the session is when the highs and lows were revealed to me. That’s how I know that psychedelics alone are not enough. And that’s when I became serious about taking back my life. 

[Moksha]

15 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Yes, I have experienced this on high dose of ketamine. 

The days and months after the session is when the highs and lows were revealed to me. That’s how I know that psychedelics alone are not enough. And that’s when I became serious about taking back my life. 

Good for you, It's for your own sake 

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.