XI JINPING(Chinas’s Leader) Speech

[Israfil]

51 minutes ago, Enigma777 said:

What are you talking about? If an American citizen posts a video of himself critiquing the U.S government he won’t have to fear law enforcement knocking at his door the next morning, a Chinese citizen would. The Chinese people who are not in agreement with the current political state of their country have to constantly live in fear(low consciousness?) and be careful of not saying anything that would get to the ears of the authorities. From what I know, activists(especially the radical left) are more than free to rally together and scream their miscontent(often unjustified) in the streets of any American state. XI Jinping would crush any manifestation or opposition to him and his ideology.

So of course the American government is selfish and corrupt but if you measure it using SP it’s nothing compared to the CCP. You don’t seem to understand what is truly happening; if you were a Chinese citizen and dared to speak against the Lords of the CCP you’d more than likely disappear in 24 hours, do you understand that? The ignorance of the threat that China truly is is what is going to enable them to maybe have their way with the rest of the world; and implying that the political system in place in America is of equal consciousness to that of China speaks nothing but ignorance tbh. In america everybody is free to believe what they want as long as they do not pose a real threat to the established order. The muslims in China have been put in literal concentration camps because their ideology was considered a threat to the order that the CCP has put in place. Destroying those who diverge from you from an ideological standpoint because diversity itself poses a threat to your absolute control is nothing but paranoid and tyrannical oppression which is extremely unevolved. The devil creates distinctions, identifies himself with a fragmented part of reality and destroys that which he deems different because of a fear for its survival. This is the epitome of unconsciousness according to universal law. I don’t understand how people who are supposed to be students of Consciousness and the mind can’t wrap their heads around this. It feels like talking to normies. Using all those complex words yet still having a very poor grasp of consciousness and universal principles which even Leo warned about. 

people who can’t see the devil are the reason why the devil even gets a chance to control this world. If even individuals in these type of communities can’t even see better than the masses were is this world heading to? Catch up. 

If I'm a devil, so are you.

The oppression you see China doing to its citizens was done by the US all around the world. The US backed up a military dictatorship in my country for over 20 years. He also did it in Chile, Bolivia, Venezuela, all around the middle east, and in many Asian countries. I don't disagree that China has a very strict internal hegemony system, but the US exported its tyranny all over the world. You cannot compare the Chinese influence with American influence by any standard. For the last 100 years, we consume American media, use American currency, and emulate the political model of the US. Every time a country tried to create alternatives to this system, even if it was done peacefully and democratically, the US intervened. That happened to every socially inclined president in Latin America in the last 60~70 years. Using your own words: "Destroying those who diverge from you from an ideological standpoint because diversity itself poses a threat to your absolute control is nothing but paranoid and tyrannical oppression which is extremely unevolved. The devil creates distinctions, identifies himself with a fragmented part of reality and destroys that which he deems different because of a fear for its survival. This is the epitome of unconsciousness according to universal law."

I guess you didn't study world history in your high school years and then defaulted to dismiss counter-arguments to the supposed grandiosity of your empire soaked in foreign blood. The US is "the land of the free" simply because you export oppression, not because of moral superiority.  

[Enigma777]

37 minutes ago, Israfil said:

If I'm a devil, so are you.

The oppression you see China doing to its citizens was done by the US all around the world. The US backed up a military dictatorship in my country for over 20 years. He also did it in Chile, Bolivia, Venezuela, all around the middle east, and in many Asian countries. I don't disagree that China has a very strict internal hegemony system, but the US exported its tyranny all over the world. You cannot compare the Chinese influence with American influence by any standard. For the last 100 years, we consume American media, use American currency, and emulate the political model of the US. Every time a country tried to create alternatives to this system, even if it was done peacefully and democratically, the US intervened. That happened to every socially inclined president in Latin America in the last 60~70 years. Using your own words: "Destroying those who diverge from you from an ideological standpoint because diversity itself poses a threat to your absolute control is nothing but paranoid and tyrannical oppression which is extremely unevolved. The devil creates distinctions, identifies himself with a fragmented part of reality and destroys that which he deems different because of a fear for its survival. This is the epitome of unconsciousness according to universal law."

I guess you didn't study world history in your high school years and then defaulted to dismiss counter-arguments to the supposed grandiosity of your empire soaked in foreign blood. The US is "the land of the free" simply because you export oppression, not because of moral superiority.  

My good sir, I’ve never denied that america was plain evil, Iam just saying that there’s a big difference between being able to openly speak against the government of your country and being thrown in jail or killed for doing so. Even though the U.S is evil China is another type of evil. 

Also I never called you a devil I was referring to China but I called out your lack of distinction in that regard

Yes, america is evil, but just wait until China accomplishes it’s global goals. If it ever succeeds in this endeavour you’ll be praying for the U.S to become the new global power once again. 

And I am not American. 

Again, it’s simple:

authoritarianism = Red spiral dynamics level

Capitalism = Orange

Orange>Red

China is less evolved and dangerous because of the level it’s operating at.

And yes again, america has destroyed its enemies because of ideological divergence and did horrible things of course, BUT again, in terms of quality of life, if I go in front of the White House and scream “fuck Biden” I won’t get thrown in jail. Try that with XI Jinping and get back to me after, If you can.

 It’s a spectrum. America is unconscious and evil but still more evolved than the CCP. You should fear China and the length that they are willing to go to. 

[Enigma777]

Check this out. @Israfil If anything China is a mix of blue-red.

 

 

[Israfil]

13 minutes ago, Enigma777 said:

My good sir, I’ve never denied that america was plain evil, Iam just saying that there’s a big difference between being able to openly speak against the government of your country and being thrown in jail or killed for doing so. Even though the U.S is evil China is another type of evil. 

Also I never called you a devil I was referring to China but I called out your lack of distinction in that regard

Yes, america is evil, but just wait until China accomplishes it’s global goals. If it ever succeeds in this endeavour you’ll be praying for the U.S to become the new global power once again. 

And I am not American. 

Again, it’s simple:

authoritarianism = Red spiral dynamics level

Capitalism = Orange

Orange>Red

China is less evolved and dangerous because of the level it’s operating at.

And yes again, america has destroyed its enemies because of ideological divergence and did horrible things of course, BUT again, in terms of quality of life, if I go in front of the White House and scream “fuck Biden” I won’t get thrown in jail. Try that with XI Jinping and get back to me after, If you can.

 It’s a spectrum. America is unconscious and evil but still more evolved than the CCP. You should fear China and the length that they are willing to go to. 

My criticism is that you are framing the US as orange, and they are, but that only applies to Americans.

The foreign policy of the US is that of political, cultural, and economic control of underdeveloped countries that could pose alternative governing systems. 

That by definition is an empire. If you look at the chart you presented, that is stage red. The US is orange for Americans, Red for the rest of the world. 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Israfil

[Enigma777]

5 minutes ago, Israfil said:

My criticism is that you are framing the US as orange, and they are, but that only applies to Americans.

The foreign policy of the US is that of political, cultural, and economic control of underdeveloped countries that could pose alternative governing systems. 

That by definition is an empire. If you look at the chart you presented, that is stage red. The US is orange for Americans, Red for the rest of the world. 

Oh that’s true. They put their nose in things they had no business in. But that doesn’t take away the threat of China. And their local laws being at least as worse as that of the foreign policies of the U.S. And believe me, China won’t be more selfless or conscious in their pursuit for the conquest of the world. They’re not gonna let anything stop them, they have a plan and they will ruthlessly try to put it into action. These guys are all the same. It’s not about defending America but you absolutely cannot downplay the threat that is the CCP.

[Israfil]

13 minutes ago, Enigma777 said:

Oh that’s true. They put their nose in things they had no business in. But that doesn’t take away the threat of China. And their local laws being at least as worse as that of the foreign policies of the U.S. And believe me, China won’t be more selfless or conscious in their pursuit for the conquest of the world. They’re not gonna let anything stop them, they have a plan and they will ruthlessly try to put it into action. These guys are all the same. It’s not about defending America but you absolutely cannot downplay the threat that is the CCP.

I don't. But I don't think that allowing the US to do its bidding blindly will work out better either. They will take the power they need to control China and use it against the rest of the world. I just want a more balanced state of affairs. 

[Enigma777]

11 minutes ago, Israfil said:

I don't. But I don't think that allowing the US to do its bidding blindly will work out better either. They will take the power they need to control China and use it against the rest of the world. I just want a more balanced state of affairs. 

If you want a more balanced state of affairs be reincarnated in a few centuries perhaps?no matter if it’s America China or whoever they’re all going to try to one up each other ruthlessly. Balance is of God. The Devil knows nothing but extremes. This will stay like this for a long time friend, just focus on your own spiritual growth if you want my advice. 

[Israfil]

14 minutes ago, Enigma777 said:

If you want a more balanced state of affairs be reincarnated in a few centuries perhaps?no matter if it’s America China or whoever they’re all going to try to one up each other ruthlessly. Balance is of God. The Devil knows nothing but extremes. This will stay like this for a long time friend, just focus on your own spiritual growth if you want my advice. 

Been following your advice. We actually agree more than I anticipated. Best of luck on your spiritual path. 

[Enigma777]

6 minutes ago, Israfil said:

Been following your advice. We actually agree more than I anticipated. Best of luck on your spiritual path. 

Likewise, Cheers.

[Jodistrict]

Promoting simplistic stereotypes and demonizing China is really a bad idea and spreading ignorance.  It is what the neocons do whenever they want to start another war.   Look at the lies they told to get America involved in Iraq.   The fact is that China has become a major power and it is not going away.   We can either cooperate with each other or end in a nuclear war.  The neocons are committed to hegemony and China, with its history of being colonized by the West, is going to insist on being an equal power in a multipolar world.   So far, it has been the US that has been the more antagonistic.  When Chairman Mao came to power he wanted to meet with the president of the United States and was rebuffed.  He wrote two letters to Harry S. Truman seeking to establish diplomatic relations.  Also, Mao decided not to pursue a nuclear weapons program because he thought it was a waste of money.  The nukes were developed by his successor.   It seems that most people still don’t understand how dangerous this rhetoric is.   

[Jwayne]

12 hours ago, actuallyenlightened said:

Classic Chinse propaganda..

Starting by getting permission to spread propaganda.

Whataboutism + select anti-American strong words.

Cherry-picking and omission of critical details. Kissinger worked for the Nixon administration and this was said during a speech in the early 70s .

Also - making an individual represent the entire country

Chinese rhetoric summed up in a sentence. 

Genocide denial. For everyone else reading this thread - here's a police leak containing the names of tens of thousands of detainees and their crimes:  https://www.xinjiangpolicefiles.org/

This is also another point made by tankies and propagandists which is not true. If you visit Xinjiang as a foreigner, you will be trailed by a random dude(s) and will be pushed away if you tried to visit a camp (you can find them with satellite images) 

You've obviously never visited China.

All your knowledge is from the Western press.

That's like trying to understand America without watching any USA news, never reading any books by Americans, never visiting the USA, never learning English, and never learning its cultural foundations.

[Jwayne]

8 hours ago, Enigma777 said:

Oh that’s true. They put their nose in things they had no business in. But that doesn’t take away the threat of China. And their local laws being at least as worse as that of the foreign policies of the U.S. And believe me, China won’t be more selfless or conscious in their pursuit for the conquest of the world. They’re not gonna let anything stop them, they have a plan and they will ruthlessly try to put it into action. These guys are all the same. It’s not about defending America but you absolutely cannot downplay the threat that is the CCP.

China has never invaded anyone (e.g. 'conquest of the world').

That's a past-time of Western European barbarians to enslave the entire world.

And they project that pathology onto those nations pursuing their own self-interest.

China experienced a recent brutal civil war after a Century of Humiliation by Western imperialist powers.

In recent decades they are experiencing the fastest economic growth in world history.

And they have the support of the Global South which is a majority of earth. Look at the polls at the approval China has in the developing world.

And the reason is obvious. China is actually building infrastructure in the developing world. Rather than IMF-loan sharking austerity programs to starve the Third World to death, which is the Western model.

The support the United States model of economic development has is shrinking.

The USA doesn't represent any majority opinion in the world anymore, as it pretends to.

It continues to anti-democratically assert its own superiority. In the same way it did in the past.

The rest of the world is considered a threat for following their own interests and diverging from Washington's agenda.

The USA has no integrity, nor any moral authority remaining. It's words are empty and the rest of the world is realizing that.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Jwayne

[Danioover9000]

@Jwayne

6 hours ago, Jwayne said:

China has never invaded anyone (e.g. 'conquest of the world').

That's a past-time of Western European barbarians to enslave the entire world.

And they project that pathology onto those nations pursuing their own self-interest.

China experienced a recent brutal civil war after a Century of Humiliation by Western imperialist powers.

In recent decades they are experiencing the fastest economic growth in world history.

And they have the support of the Global South which is a majority of earth. Look at the polls at the approval China has in the developing world.

And the reason is obvious. China is actually building infrastructure in the developing world. Rather than IMF-loan sharking austerity programs to starve the Third World to death, which is the Western model.

The support the United States model of economic development has is shrinking.

The USA doesn't represent any majority opinion in the world anymore, as it pretends to.

It continues to anti-democratically assert its own superiority. In the same way it did in the past.

The rest of the world is considered a threat for following their own interests and diverging from Washington's agenda.

The USA has no integrity, nor any moral authority remaining. It's words are empty and the rest of the world is realizing that.

   Yeah, but China's pursuing a global big Daddy approach with lending money to 3rd world countries and making them in debt to them decades later, it's just not good.

   And Covid-19 came from China, and later several months later from the initial outbreak, they ban people coming in with Covid-19 symptoms or if you're ill, which is peak hypocrisy considering the virus came from that region of China.

[Jwayne]

5 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Jwayne

   Yeah, but China's pursuing a global big Daddy approach with lending money to 3rd world countries and making them in debt to them decades later, it's just not good.

   And Covid-19 came from China, and later several months later from the initial outbreak, they ban people coming in with Covid-19 symptoms or if you're ill, which is peak hypocrisy considering the virus came from that region of China.

The COVID Zero policy is over and China is open now. It was strict according to the deadliness of the strains. The early forms of the virus were fatal and then it began mutating in favor of being more contagious. To the point where even vulnerable people are not at much risk now with good treatments.

[actuallyenlightened]

17 hours ago, Jwayne said:

China has never invaded anyone (e.g. 'conquest of the world').

well except the 1950 annexation of tibet,  korean war, the 1962 sino-indian war (annexed Aksai Chin) and the 1979 sino-vietnamese war (where they lost and went home)

You know @Jwayne, even though the 50 cent army is state endorsed, you're still breaking the law by going over the great firewall. 

Stop spreading misinformation. Please leave this forum. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by actuallyenlightened

[thenondualtankie]

Quote

Yeah, but China's pursuing a global big Daddy approach with lending money to 3rd world countries and making them in debt to them decades later, it's just not good.

Would you like to propose a better system in today's global capitalist system to engage in diplomacy with poor third world countries? You want China to just give away free stuff? Instead, it does the next best thing, which is to give out loans. A lot of African countries have benefitted from Chinese infrastructure.

China's foreign policy is miles better than Western powers. Another example is the fact that China's given hundreds of millions of free vaccines (speaking of giving away free stuff!).

[Danioover9000]

@Jwayne

7 hours ago, Jwayne said:

The COVID Zero policy is over and China is open now. It was strict according to the deadliness of the strains. The early forms of the virus were fatal and then it began mutating in favor of being more contagious. To the point where even vulnerable people are not at much risk now with good treatments.

   They did lift the Covid-19 zero policy, until a sudden spike of more infected people, to which they brought back the zero policy, so...

[Jodistrict]

4 hours ago, actuallyenlightened said:

well except the 1950 annexation of tibet,  korean war, the 1962 sino-indian war (annexed Aksai Chin) and the 1979 sino-vietnamese war (where they lost and went home)

You know @Jwayne, even though the 50 cent army is state endorsed, you're still breaking the law by going over the great firewall. 

Stop spreading misinformation. Please leave this forum. 

In the China-Vietnam war, China invaded in retaliation to Vietnam’s invasion of Cambodia.  And the war lasted for a month.  The US was in Afghanistan for 20 years.

China claims Tibet was part of past Chinese empires, and when they took over Tibet was still a feudal society.   The US took the West from the Indians and the Mexicans by force.

The sino-indian war was a border dispute.

In the Korean war, China had a legitimate security concern of having a US backed power on its border.

In all these cases, China is asserting its claim to territory as a regional power.
 

[actuallyenlightened]

2 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

In the China-Vietnam war, China invaded in retaliation to Vietnam’s invasion of Cambodia.  And the war lasted for a month.  The US was in Afghanistan for 20 years.

China claims Tibet was part of past Chinese empires, and when they took over Tibet was still a feudal society.   The US took the West from the Indians and the Mexicans by force.

The sino-indian war was a border dispute.

In the Korean war, China had a legitimate security concern of having a US backed power on its border.

In all these cases, China is asserting its claim to territory as a regional power.
 

I'm not talking about justifications, just about whether that prior statement was factual. An invasion of a 'feudal society' due to 'asserting its claim to territory' is an invasion nonetheless. Also, why is half of your reply about the US, they have many other specifically focused topics on this forum.

In the case of Vietnam, you do realize that this was after they overthrew the Khmer Rouge (who are responsible for the Cambodian genocide). You aren't making the CCP sound like the good guys for attacking Vietnam in 'retaliation' for this. 

[Jwayne]

8 hours ago, actuallyenlightened said:

Stop spreading misinformation. Please leave this forum. 

I will allow the moderators to decide whether my contributions are evidence based or whether they are violations.

Everything I've written is credible even if it doesn't conform to the ideology Westerners are indoctrinated with. I put a lot of effort into understanding things from other points of view. Almost all of my free time is spent reading books or talking to people from different cultures around the world.

And you would like to ban that person? I think it says something about your intolerance to having dialogue. Being authoritarian and banning people who you disagree with gets you nothing but echo chamber bubbles.

The challenges of the world demand that we extend ourselves to understand the other.

We have to understand the world the way it is and not only the way we believe it ought to be. The fact is that all of these matters are multi-perspectival. Even the legality of conflicts is not simple to arbitrate.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Jwayne