Going Against Spiritual Notion of Completely Escaping Suffering and....

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Water by the River said:

doubt that they could have done what they did with still substantial/normal psychological suffering going on.

You might be surprised at how humane those guys who were idolized were.

[Water by the River]

26 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

You might be surprised at how humane those guys who were idolized were.

When I read for example what Meister Eckhart wrote, or The Tao the Ching, or the Songs of Naropa, I do know which realization these masters had, and out of which emotional states they were writing.

Humans who have fully ACTUALIZED their potential, and therefor were FULLY human. I just got wondering in which forum I was writing these lines, rechecked, and got reassured that at least name-wise I am in the right place 

I guess we have to end with that statement:

Lets agree to disagree, and I wish you permanent freedom from suffering from all my heart, although you doubt that is possible. In the end, this life or the next, IT will get you anyway 

Bon voyage!

Water by the River

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Water by the River said:

wish you permanent freedom from suffering from all my heart, although you doubt that is possible

Well , i try to avoid suffering and get closer to what makes me happy. as I suppose would do lao tzu, meister eckart and all those you speak of. I don't think they would like, for example, to be homeless in a big city, or to be in an African refugee camp dying of thirst and surrounded by misery. in fact, they were surrounded by people who respected and cared for them, they ate well, they had free time, a good life

Edited April 20, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[UnbornTao]

Wanting something you don't have means you don't have it and are separate from it. Ta da! It's counter-intuitive - pursuing happiness is based on suffering because it's an assessment of lack. Avoiding suffering also adds to the suffering, it seems to me. Better to confront it in order to grasp what it is and why it is there, which facilitates freedom from much of it.

Edited April 21, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Breakingthewall]

7 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

Because they surrendered their personal wants. 

yes, to some extent. we would have to see to what extent

[Yimpa]

14 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Avoiding suffering also adds to the suffering, it seems to me. Better to confront what suffering is and try to understand it and hopefully that will facilitate getting free of much of it, which I get the sense is unnecessary. 

Yup. Avoidance can function as a compulsion, which is the case for me (I also have OCD). Every day I purposefully do at least one thing I know I’m avoiding to teach myself that I can handle it; that whatever nonsense my thoughts say to try to protect me are wrong. 

It’s like breaking away from an abusive boyfriend that tries really hard to control your every move. Eventually you realize that this asshole is doing you no good, so you eventually say, “Fuck you, I’m gonna discover my freedom, and you can’t stop me. This is goodbye, and I’m no longer afraid of your need to keep me isolated... you say that if I leave you then I’ll get hurt, but you are wrong.”

[UnbornTao]

2 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Yup. Avoidance can function as a compulsion, which is the case for me (I also have OCD). Every day I purposefully do at least one thing I know I’m avoiding to teach myself that I can handle it; that whatever nonsense my thoughts say to try to protect me are wrong. 

It’s like breaking away from an abusive boyfriend that tries really hard to control your every move. Eventually you realize that this asshole is doing you no good, so you eventually say, “Fuck you, I’m gonna discover my freedom, and you can’t stop me. This is goodbye, and I’m no longer afraid of your need to keep me isolated... you say that if I leave you then I’ll get hurt, but you are wrong.”

That's a good practice, happy for you. In my case, meditating for at least 20min daily is what I do. I've noticed that meditation requires confronting yourself, your emotions and your state in a very positive, straightforward way. Your mind learns to embrace your experience, to let go and to focus. I recommend it. 

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

That's a good practice, happy for you. In my case, meditating for at least 20min daily is what I do. I've noticed that meditation requires confronting yourself, your emotions and your state in a very positive, straightforward way. Your mind learns to embrace your experience, to let go and to focus. I recommend it. 

Thank you for the reminder. That’s what I’m working on in therapy right now - understanding my emotions.

I’ll make meditating a habit starting now 

[Breakingthewall]

6 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

But that they would leave it to the universe to take care of it as appropriate, as it always has.

I don't know if you are aware that human life is a fight to the death, like hyenas in the savannah, but more organized. The universe will let you be the whore of a tribe of psychopaths and sell your children as slaves to sadomasochistic brothels if you don't fight to the death. if buddha was a spoiled prince and went around the world with his princely manners and everyone was delighted to be his friend and they fed him and stuff, good for him, but buddha had no idea what it is life, same as Ramana maharshi. It's great that they speak about the absolute, but not about the attitude in life. 

 

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

Such a rough life you had...

 

The truth, a very strange madness and very difficult to decipher in which I had to fight to the maximum, or the madness that surrounded me was going to swallow me and kill me, after a funny preamble of depression, addiction, failure and sickness. Same than many others.

I think that only my mother's enormous love in childhood has given me the strength and intelligence to find the way. life can be extremely difficult and extremely harsh

Edited April 22, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Yimpa]

23 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

That's a good practice, happy for you. In my case, meditating for at least 20min daily is what I do. I've noticed that meditation requires confronting yourself, your emotions and your state in a very positive, straightforward way. Your mind learns to embrace your experience, to let go and to focus. I recommend it. 

22 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Thank you for the reminder. That’s what I’m working on in therapy right now - understanding my emotions.

I’ll make meditating a habit starting now 

 

Just wanted to give an update. I found myself meditating for two hours yesterday (originally only wanted to do 20 minutes). After the session I was still in a meditative state while going about my business. As I was in the shower, the concept I had of myself collapsed (like it has many times before) - pure bliss!

Note… I did find myself contemplating impromptu an hour into the meditation session, which could explain how I was able to go deeper. I’m excited to explore more!

 

[UnbornTao]

@Yimpa nice, keep up the good work. Two hours is an impressive feat even for moderately experienced meditators.

Edited April 22, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Yimpa]

@UnbornTao Thank you. I’ve done meditation retreats before and used to practice on and off; I was never consistent with it.

Or perhaps I just simply forgot