[lol] It's so obvious that humans are carnivores.

[Schizophonia]

I'm not on a carnivorous diet, I'm a student and don't have the money/logistics for it, so I include carbs like lots of oats, honey/molasses, and fruit.
I will try to buy a goat this summer and kill/cut it up.This afternoon I ate half a pound of beef heart and 50g of raw butter, it was incredible.
I look forward to my meals and am gas free and my cognition is superb, sleep is better.
No spice/seasoning needed, even the salt gets nasty little by little, just that super juicy, greasy taste. Nobody wants to eat cabbage, beans and brown rice, it's incredibly boring and even disgusting, all the vegans I see have to do fancy dishes to be able to eat their "food".

Your excuse to repress your instincts and obey Dr. Greger, McDougall or another fallout ghoul? 

Before you start commenting: I saw several keto and carnivorous youtubers doing blood tests and mri, everything was fine.
I'm too lazy to find the videos but if you type "carnivore diet arterial calcification score" or something like that you will see that many (well, relative to the size of the community) have good scores, despite what we could believe.

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

giga cope vidéo

The guy literally can't say anything except:
"heuu heuue yes but the ldl blablabla" + link to an epidemiological study

The guy eat chilled potato and chickpeas lol

+ for those who think of the change of saladino.
1) I am not against carbohydrates
2)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tJQLKFtJnI

There is also this type for example :

 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Rigel]

No it's very obvious that human genetics vary wildly & there's no one size fits all.

[integral]

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

 

 

She did it for 8 months. That scan indicates its fine to do keto/carnivore for short durations.

Edited April 17, 2023 by integral

[Schizophonia]

4 hours ago, Rigel said:

No it's very obvious that human genetics vary wildly & there's no one size fits all.

do you have proves ? expect for minor stuffs like lactose tolerance 

[Jannes]

What is better about carnivore than keto? 

[Schizophonia]

8 minutes ago, Jannes said:

What is better about carnivore than keto? 

It's about eating what's natural and actually makes you happy.
Meat/animal fat, fruits, honey, raw dairy products, low-fiber leafy vegetables, possibly nuts (more like a paleo/primal diet after all, carnivore is a misnomer)

Keto is also a mental illness like veganism, they forbid themselves to eat delicious fruits and force themselves to eat filthy goitrogenic green leaves. It's rubbish and based on flawed macronutrient reasoning.

[The0Self]

30 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

It's about eating what's natural and actually makes you happy.
Meat/animal fat, fruits, honey, raw dairy products, low-fiber leafy vegetables, possibly nuts (more like a paleo/primal diet after all, carnivore is a misnomer)

Keto is also a mental illness like veganism, they forbid themselves to eat delicious fruits and force themselves to eat filthy goitrogenic green leaves. It's rubbish and based on flawed macronutrient reasoning.

Sounds like you've been reading Ray Peat. He's a smart fellow and a contrarian but he's not right about everything.

And we do thrive on meat, but that's not all we can thrive on. We're omnivores. But even obligate carnivores chew on green stuff. So all meat is probably not a good idea unless it just happens to cure an autoimmune/etc issue for whatever reason, but it's certainly not going to be the best for everyone.

And yeah keto is another thing. From what I remember when I figured this out years ago is that on-keto blood work is usually fine... for a while; sometimes a few years, and then the HDL cholesterol and triglycerides crash pretty hard.

Edited April 17, 2023 by The0Self

[Michael569]

Asking young people for CAC score and expecting anything other than negative is like giving a prostate exam to a 10 year old boy and cheering up when it shows BPH negative.

It's preposterous and they all know it. Young guys do not get heart disease regardless of what they eat 

The first difference in blood lipids (mainly in ApoB) won't become apparent until late 30s mid 40s.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Michael569

[tezk]

2 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Asking young people for CAC score and expecting anything other than negative is like giving a prostate exam to a 10 year old boy and cheering up when it shows BPH negative.

It's preposterous and they all know it. Young guys do not get heart disease regardless of what they eat 

The first difference in blood lipids (mainly in ApoB) won't become apparent until late 30s mid 40s.

Is eating lean red meat an option for those that claim to enjoy / feel good eating red meat but want to reduce CVD risk?

[M A J I]

On the contrary it is absolutely evident that humans are frugivores and this is scientifically proven. Our entire biology, DNA and anatomy says so. All is is denial of Truth. You can argue this all day but humans by design are frugivores.

Now they can adapt and survive on meat and as omnivores, but they won't be thriving and living in optimal nature.

There are tribes found around the world people only eating 1 to 2 fruit meals a day living average 200 - 300+ years life spans.

I suggest to read the book: Mans Higher Consciousness by Hilton Hotema and Eden Bound by Steven Budden.

The baby most definitely eats the fruit and plays with the rabbit.

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by M A J I

[M A J I]

Technically we are breatharian, no cell, atom, molecule is effected by nutrients within food, food actually ages us. There are Yogis in the thousands because they do not eat and live in pristine environments un-touched by the hand of man. Remember we are Spirit creating this "illusion" of physicality. Once you rise above it, you are naturally Immortal, and you can utilize this cosmic energy that you are into the physical life. The reason why man ages like he does today, especially in the west, is because he eats too much of the wrong foods and lives in an artificial environment. Belief systems and programs within the human psyche and collective consciousness also have a large Impact on how man lives, ages and dies a premature death. Rise above these beliefs and you have freed yourself from the herd consciousness and limitations of man/mind/maya.

Edited April 18, 2023 by M A J I

[Schizophonia]

13 hours ago, Lila9 said:

According to the structure of our digestive system that includes our teeth, it's similar to herbivore animals, not to carnivores.

Carnivores have big, long and sharp teeth to kill and tear raw meat. We can't do that with our mouths, we can only eat meat properly when it's cooked.

 

Humans are opportunists in this sense, even though our natural inclination was to eat fruits and plants, they weren't always available to us. Especially in winter. So, when we didn't have plants, we ate meat. And even then, humans didn't consume it as often as humans do today.

Biologically our digestive system suitable more to plant-based food, so a vegan diet if done correctly is very healthy.

 

Anatomy has no value, some animals have more of a carnivorous anatomy but are actually more herbivorous (example: pandas).  Man is a primate and it is normal that we have kept a relatively similar anatomy, especially since the evolutionary process is slow and that:

1) We eat a certain percentage of certain plants

2) We didn't necessarily need to evolve to chew meat because we are able to use tools to facilitate the processing/consumption of meat.  Vegans are ok with eating inedible foods raw so you wouldn't have the nerve to deny that argument, would you?

Going back to the anatomy: Humans cannot digest cellulose or ferment it in a consistent way for energy, humans have quite strong stomach acid and even stronger than that of canines, humans can very  digest animal proteins (proteases) well, the human palate loves salt, animal proteins, fats (especially animal) and monosaccharides.  We don't like starches and vegetables of all kinds.
A lot of fiber will create dangerous intestinal discomfort, if you persist and manage to increase your intestinal flora no one will want to be your girlfriend because no one wants to have a relationship with a human bio-gas machine.

You need a descent amount of omega 3 for your brain and it's pretty obvious that we didn't evolve from flax seeds, lol.

You can watch rags like "what the health" or "Game changers" made for modern dumb people, or you can watch documentaries made by serious people.  I recently saw an Arte documentary on human evolution, it seems from archaeological evidence that the human brain evolved in speech from migrants to northern Africa after periods of drought, particularly following the course of the  Nile.  (fish and shellfish fishing)

This is a non-exhaustive list, I would like someone to be able to debunk everything I said ? 

 

[Schizophonia]

@The0Self

What is the link between ray peat and what I say/do?  Ray Peat spared like 50% protein by the end and was basically a vegetarian, mostly said to eat skimmed milk, well-cooked vegetables, fruits/fruit juices.

@Michael569

Hello Michael, I like you but once again you speak before thinking.

Hello Michael, I like you but once again you speak before thinking

Paul Saladino is 44 years old and has been a carnivore/primal for several years.  Dr. berg also did this recall test and his score was PERFECT, he is 58 years old and has been on his keto diet for like two decades, maybe even longer.  It's not a carnivorous diet but ok.  There's also this guy I quickly found on Google: https://carnivore.diet/greg-reduced-coronary-artery-calcium-score-carnivore-diet.  I've seen other testimonials but I'm too lazy to find them and I don't have to chew the work for you.  On the Vegan side there is this arteriosclerosis invention image of an esselstyn patient that vegans spam everywhere, but the guy actually had a lot of failures, and the people in question were put on statins  , diet and sport.  I find that bogus.

 

@DefinitelyNotARobot

What do you usually eat ?

[ZenAlex]

Vegan here

Humans are opportunistic omnivores, we eat what we can get our hands on.

That being said, you don't need animal products to meet your nutritional requirements if the plants are available to you, this is a fact. There is not a single thing that I cannot get while being vegan. All I need is 1-2 supplements and I'm fine. Been vegan for over 7 years, blood tests are fine.

I get veganism is harder for some people, and not everyone's bodies react the same, so some people may struggle to make it work practically. I don't preach on anyone, all my acquaintances are meat eaters, I'm not a dick about it.

Eating meat is not essential for a lot of people who have the plants available to them. It all depends on circumstance.

If not fully vegan, then at least going more plant based would definitely be better for the environment. 

Omega 3 is often supplemented through cod liver oil or plant based alternatives. You're either getting it naturally from fish or nuts/seeds, and many people eat neither.

[Schizophonia]

@ZenAlex

1)Plants doesn't have or/are very deficient on :

-B12

-EPA/DHA (unless you consume silly amounts of flax/chia seed)

-Vitamine A (same but with carrot juice, sweet potatoes etc.)

-Zinc (Vegetarianism will drastically increase the copper to zinc ratio, and increase the metabolism of dopamine to downstream stimulatory catecholamines, while having lower gaba signaling, zinc is also very necessary for the production of sperm and testosterone, it is literally one of the first supplements used to boost these.)

-Choline (Only in large quantities in eggs and animal flesh, necessary for the synthesis of seminal fluid and especially acetylcholine, itself necessary for good muscle and especially cerebral function, also serves to balance excess catecholamines.)

-L-Carnitine (also needed for the brain)

-Heme Iron A significant portion of the world's population is anemic, and even without it your levels may be too low. (that's my case).
You can't reverse anemia with non-heme iron unless you use monstrous amounts, and it will damage your gut flora.

-Proteins (sports vegans and in particular bodybuilders all gorge themselves on protein from peas, rice, hemp etc. There is a German powerlifter (that nobody knows lol) presented in the game changers, the guy made a video "what i eat in a day", he was literally fueled with protein powder smoothies.
Of course these athletes also do (or have done) roids, otherwise they are all slow and skinny fat.

I also sometimes see guys here quoting sadghuru, I don't know how you can take this guy for a reference in terms of spirituality and health, he is a caricature of a skinny fat Hindu guru who speaks in slow motion.
My grandfather who had terminal cancer had as much energy as him lol.

 

2)

Why do you need to justify your food choices based on what you can theoretically do without.
Why do you have this slave mentality? were you humiliated in your childhood or something like that to the point of taking the holding back of your cravings as a virtue?
This is a recurrence among vegans, especially the most orthorexic.

I want to be nice to myself and others, I eat meat and sugar and I wish the same to the people I love.
You must read Nietzsche

Edited April 18, 2023 by Schizophonia

[zurew]

4 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Paul Saladino is 44 years old and has been a carnivore/primal for several years.

You have one person (who is undeniably biased, because he built his career and a whole identity on being carnivore), but what actual long term studies you have, that would actually justify your high confidence on this topic?

Edited April 18, 2023 by zurew

[Michael569]

5 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Hello Michael, I like you but once again you speak before thinking

Edit: my first response was triggered and inflammatory.

I'll just tell you what I told you before 

Please don't settle with your health so quickly to people who are excellent marketers because you may pay for it one day. 

That's all. Just keep your guard up.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Michael569

[Schizophonia]

55 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Edit: my first response was triggered and inflammatory.

I'll just tell you what I told you before 

Please don't settle with your health so quickly to people who are excellent marketers because you may pay for it one day. 

That's all. Just keep your guard up.

You are right, but I do not follow anyone and therefore no form of marketing whatsoever.  I don't want to gain weight/lose weight, cure anything or whatever with a diet, I'm not even afraid of dying ha ha.  I just eat what I like and draw conclusions.

The purpose of my arrogant/playful attitude on this thread is to troll a bit and provoke an attempted response to my conclusions based on things as simple and basic as taste.

This is a serious question, I quickly looked at your YouTube channel, you seem nice and I subscribed but can you explain why you need to put fruit (sweet stuff) in your cereal porridge to make it more or less edible?  I can simply heat up a steak with butter/bone marrow and it's simply a feast for the taste buds, just two ingredients from the same source!

Can you also explain why the "carnivores" I quoted are in good health including no problems with arteriosclerosis?  There are some carnivores with problems but I suspect they eat too little fat and just eat steaks, or too many vitamin a rich organs etc.  And again I'm not a "carnivore" in the strict sense of the word, I see no problem eating fruits, honey, tubers and my easily digestible vegetables (I should have said paleo I know)

Also understand that I cannot spend days trying to debunk your petitions of principle and therefore by extension those of some of the nutritionists.  It is obviously too long and complicated.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Leo Gura]

@Schizophonia I've done carnivore for over a year. My bloodwork is much worse than ever. It is certainly not healthy. Of course that doesn't mean some amount of meat is bad for health. But all-meat is not the proper diet for a human. These social media influencers are selling you fantasies, both meat-eaters and vegans. Balance in your diet is key.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Leo Gura