[lol] It's so obvious that humans are carnivores.

[integral]

around 3:00 "lowering your ldl cholesterol these researchers found that there was no consistent relationship between lowering ldl c with a statin and your risk of death, heart attack or stroke"

Long term risks of statins use "Lower testosterone levels, higher glucose, lower CoQ10, muscle pain and worse"

Alternative opinion on statins from a heart surgeon

Edited April 28, 2023 by integral

[Schizophonia]

On 26/04/2023 at 5:20 PM, Eyowey said:

There's an agenda for people to eat meat as far as I can tell. Children eat fruit shaped candy made from pork fat instead of actual fruit. They are made to be so sweet that actual fruit seems boring in comparison. Only the devil would invent something like this.

Wtf, where do you live?
Where I am there are sweets but they are made with normal vegetable fats.
Obviously pork gelatin for "gummy" products (Haribbot bears...) and dairy products, but that's it. It doesn't stop people from eating fruit.

 

If your reward system is wired to look for excitement inflammation, you're in trouble.
When I was little and very stressed, I was overweight and loved to stuff myself with high calorie things.
When my stress decreased and my lifestyle was more pleasant, my tastes directly veered towards sweeter things (fruits, fruit candies/cakes, spiced dishes, any "refined" dishes, etc.).
It didn't take the slightest effort.

On 27/04/2023 at 0:26 AM, Jannes said:

Why is supplementation bad? I agree with you that its not natural but if it works physiologically where is the problem?

Exactly, there is no problem.
I am not saying that complementing each other is a problem, I am saying that complementing each other is further proof that man is not a herbivore, nor an omnivore "with an erbivorous tendency".

Quote

Quick google search will do.

Or here: https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Omega3FattyAcids-Consumer/

You didn't read your link.
The article explains the daily needs in omega 3 (including ALA), what they are used for and the consequences of the lack of their consumption.

Your statement was "carnivores lack ALA"
He's not saying that carnivores (or humans for that matter) have a deficiency problem.

Quote

ALA is essential

You didn't read your link.
The article explains the daily needs in omega 3 (including ALA), what they are used for and the consequences of the lack of their consumption.

Your statement was "carnivores lack ALA"
It's not saying that carnivores (or humans for that matter) have a deficiency problem and that's very unlikely if you're liberal with fats and especially shellfish.
Having a meat-based diet does not prevent you from eating nuts or easily digestible vegetables, whose membrane contains o3 ALA.
Even Vonderplanitz also had a formula based on walnuts ah ah.

Quote

 

Do you think by eating insects we could get enough b12? 

Probably, according to the amount you eat of course.

Quote

 

That's not what I said that humans are adapted to herbivorous diet and I didn't see it as that important. But I get your reasoning now. Your whole argumentation about what is natural or not is so important to you because that's what you think matters 100% to good health. Natural = Health.

Yes I would agree that humans are not perfectly adapted to a herbivorous diet. I would say that they are adapted to a cooked omnivore diet. So IF your point Natural = Health is true then I would agree that herbivorous diets are unhealthy. You haven't convinced that we are carnivores though. 

Anyways I got a few arguments against "Natural = Health":

This was an argument I already made. Even if you are adapted to diet A, these adaptions could accidentally also be usable for diet B. Like a sprinter is adapted for sprinting but is also a great jogger. 

If physiologically certain unnatural things like supplementation work well or physiologically some things don't work so well like to much colestoral on tons of meat then isnt that more believable then our background story?

Just because we survived on some things in the past doesn't mean we thrived on it or that it was the best diet for us it just means it was enough to get by and reproduce. 

Our biology is long and complicated. The human phase wasn't all our past. There are probably still even some adaptions we got from our biological mouse phase. So it's not really clear to say what we perfectly are adapted to. 

All that is natural is not good, man has evolved to adapt to his environment which was a part of nature.
There are artificial things that come close to this part of nature and won't pose too many problems for the body.
I have no problem with a can of redbull, it's not very nutritious (although vitamin enriched) but easily digestible and pleasant, basically a substitute for what you are adapted to in nature (fruits, fruit juices, honey ...).

Most of the world's gastronomy has been built on this idea of survival and is based on well-prepared sources of starch (soaking, cooking, grinding, mixing with fats, etc.), seasonal plants low in fiber and well cooked etc.
The typical Western/Central European diet has been basically based for thousands of years on animal products but also "sweet" well-cooked vegetables, grains, potatoes and various well-cooked starches with fat for taste and intestinal health, white bread or sourdough rye, etc. etc.

The body works with all of this, the real question is what will happen if you start thinking you're a gorilla, go against your senses, and start consuming large amounts of legumes and very fibrous, or just low-density vegetables? nutritionally.
At best your diet will become a nightmare especially if you have to consume large amounts of calories, at worst it will trigger intestinal discomfort, large amounts of gas, constipation, carabral fog due to endotoxins leaking through your barrier bowel, muscle wasting etc etc.

And, as I have already said before, a fruit diet is also not pleasant and is disgusting, frugivores force themselves by ortorexia and, like starchivores, gorge themselves on smoothie banana dates, "nicecream" etc.
Even freelee banana girl (who is nevertheless quite orthorexic at the base) ended up adding a descent quantity of nuts / avocados (which are almost impossible to find in nature, as a reminder...), because all these carbs ad nuauseam are boring .

Quote

Although it doesn't make up a huge time span relatively speaking there are still some adaptations we got in the last few thousand years ago. When your diet changes radically I think you can make very fast adjustments. For example in the scientific literature a dog is literally considered an omnivore just because we fed dogs so much veggies over the years because meat was to valuable that dogs became omnivores with almost as good veggie digesting capabilities as pigs. Of course not as great but pretty good. And given that humans were not straight carnivores like pigs we probably developed a lot further because our starting point was more in the direction of plant eater in the first point. 

It is probably the opposite that happened to homo sapiens.
Primates (plant based) who have been forced to adopt a meat-rich diet due to various violent climatic changes.
Men still have primate/herbivore characteristics such as teeth, but have also and above all developed carnivore traits, such as a lean and slender physique, more gynoid muscle distribution in general, a more efficient ENT system, greater sweating capacity , stiffer feet and ankles (propulsion), stronger stomach acid for protein digestion (even more than dogs), intestines still large but smaller than other herbivores/primates, more developed gallbladders, high production of protease/ lipase etc
The gallbladder is also developed in humans and I have seen many people develop gallbladder problems on a low fat diet.

Quote

I mean you have a few options like nut and seed bread with avocado or more nut butter, salads with olives, roasted veggies with oil, tahini dressings, scrambled tofu stuff, soy yoghurt. It's not great but also not a nightmare I think. 

Agree

But back to the starting point, you need to excessively tweak, fix, and season your vegan diet to make it enjoyable.

Quote

yeah that is dumb af, please take examples of educated people from the vegan community. 

Incidentally, none of the plants you mentioned exist in nature. And excess polyunsaturated fats can decrease androgen sensitivity, increase estrogen signaling, create more oxidative stress during their beta oxidations than saturated fatty acids, or even glucose oxidation.
The matrix should theoretically help to compensate for these problems (polyphenols, vitamin e...) but this is only a theory.
There was a time when I ate a lot of nuts and my skin/hair was in bad shape.
It may be a coincidence but I'm not the only one having these problems.
It also depends on the nuts, of course.

Quote

Do you have a link?

In fact, most of them are just amino acids that are not very present in plants.

Quote

great apes, elephants, parrots, .. 

and some carnivores are some of the dumbest animals on the planet like crocodiles. 

If there is a survival benefit to intelligence animals become more intelligent no matter what their diet is and if not they stay dumb no matter what their diet is. At least that's my observation. 

The fact is that none of these carnivorous or herbivorous animals come even remotely close to human intelligence, and that intelligence is enabled by an exceptionally large amount of certain omega 3s.
Probably for membrane fluidity (or passage of electrons) even simpler than omega 6s, something like that.

Quote

I like the taste of veggies

No.
You like fruits, tubers and a handful of well-cooked vegetables, the majority of which have been selected and hybridized.

Quote

and there is nothing wrong with causing gas actually. Animals in nature fart all the time. The gas becomes unpleasant and irritating if we don't allow ourselves to get it out by farting which is the real problem. 

There's a difference between sometimes having gas, and turning into a human jet pack.
Depending on your genetics, too much fibrous food will turn you into a human hydrogen bomb and maybe cause you SIBO.

Quote

Yeah but what's the problem? Humans naturally cook things.

Was it meat or plants for that matter? 

 

Quote

With only veggies it's unrealistic but with grains included no problem. Why LF though? 

If you think humans are rather herbivorous then you will think HCLF is ideal, both through HCLF propaganda (McDougall, Furhman, Esselstyn...) and, above all, quite simply because there is no abundant sources of vegetable fats in nature.
You have nuts, avocados and coconuts thanks to globalization.

Quote

 

Isnt tamari like soy sauce. I don't understand. 

Sorry I meant Tamarind

Quote

I wonder how things are if we would be really really hungry. Like if I eat a bunch of chocolate I love the taste of some natural veggie soup but if I am really hungry that really isnt doing anything for me I just want calories and cooked grains would be very appealing to me. 

There is a youtubeur on youtube who made a video about his past as a frugivore with Sv3rige. He explained that once in a state of cachexia, almost to the point of death, he had had a terrible instinctive craving for butter and raw chicken.

Another anecdote: a controversial French naturopath who explained that he too had fallen into a state of cachexia, with tuberculosis and pancreatic disease.
He explained that he did a blind instinctotherapy "test" among lots of foods, and was attracted the most by a very fatty piece of pork, even though he was more or less vegan.
He gained weight and recovered from his chronic illnesses on a "primal" diet. (mainly meat and fruit).

Do what you want with it. 

Quote

oh okay

I asked chatgpt in which cases carnivores leave some of their loot and its either because they can't eat it all at once, they can't digest it all, some parts are toxic for the animal or certain tactical behavior. 

I don't think it would be either one of these reasons for humans because they could eat it all together in a tribe and by cooking the meat most parts should loose their toxicity. 

Probably.

Quote

I am no specialist but it doesn't seem to me that it is one of the other reasons. 

So yeah weird that humans don't like the taste of organ meats if they are well adapted to it 

So they probably aren't really.
It depends on the organs and the preparation afterwards.

Quote

Given the fact that we couldn't get EPA and DHA I would agree with you there. 

How much fish was really needed isnt clear though, it could have been relatively little. 

Several times a week.
Most people lack omega 3.

Quote

.. damn took me more then an hour to answer all that. I hope you don't make any good points anymore 

 

This kind of discussion never ends ah ah, it's a black hole of energy. 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

Statins will break your ability to heal wounds, to recover your muscles, will penalize your insulin sensitivity etc etc.

If you're so scared of LDL why not just eat more fiber and less saturated long chain fat?

Inulin smoothie 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Jannes]

5 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Exactly, there is no problem.
I am not saying that complementing each other is a problem, I am saying that complementing each other is further proof that man is not a herbivore, nor an omnivore "with an erbivorous tendency".

Agree

Quote

You didn't read your link.
The article explains the daily needs in omega 3 (including ALA), what they are used for and the consequences of the lack of their consumption.

Your statement was "carnivores lack ALA"
It's not saying that carnivores (or humans for that matter) have a deficiency problem and that's very unlikely if you're liberal with fats and especially shellfish.
Having a meat-based diet does not prevent you from eating nuts or easily digestible vegetables, whose membrane contains o3 ALA.
Even Vonderplanitz also had a formula based on walnuts ah ah.

I thought the carnivores diet is defined as 100% animal based. 

If you can eat plants then of course I agree. 

Quote

Probably, according to the amount you eat of course.

So vegans need B12 from meat 

Quote

All that is natural is not good, man has evolved to adapt to his environment which was a part of nature.
There are artificial things that come close to this part of nature and won't pose too many problems for the body.
I have no problem with a can of redbull, it's not very nutritious (although vitamin enriched) but easily digestible and pleasant, basically a substitute for what you are adapted to in nature (fruits, fruit juices, honey ...).

Most of the world's gastronomy has been built on this idea of survival and is based on well-prepared sources of starch (soaking, cooking, grinding, mixing with fats, etc.), seasonal plants low in fiber and well cooked etc.
The typical Western/Central European diet has been basically based for thousands of years on animal products but also "sweet" well-cooked vegetables, grains, potatoes and various well-cooked starches with fat for taste and intestinal health, white bread or sourdough rye, etc. etc.

The body works with all of this, the real question is what will happen if you start thinking you're a gorilla, go against your senses, and start consuming large amounts of legumes and very fibrous, or just low-density vegetables? nutritionally.
At best your diet will become a nightmare especially if you have to consume large amounts of calories, at worst it will trigger intestinal discomfort, large amounts of gas, constipation, carabral fog due to endotoxins leaking through your barrier bowel, muscle wasting etc etc.

And, as I have already said before, a fruit diet is also not pleasant and is disgusting, frugivores force themselves by ortorexia and, like starchivores, gorge themselves on smoothie banana dates, "nicecream" etc.
Even freelee banana girl (who is nevertheless quite orthorexic at the base) ended up adding a descent quantity of nuts / avocados (which are almost impossible to find in nature, as a reminder...), because all these carbs ad nuauseam are boring .

Yes I agree that through cooking our diet changed a lot and people thinking we should go back to nature and eat lots of raw leaves and fiber are actually wrong because that's not even natural for us. We are not apes living with technology we are homo sapiens living with technology and there quite a big difference between these two. 

I don't think a gorilla would eat a lot of legumes. There are many cultures where people eat a lot of legumes. I feel great on legumes. Yes you have to poop more often and maybe sometimes fart but that's not a health problem it's rather a problem of society thinking its better than animals and repressing these certain natural primitive things. 

I am not saying anybody can eat a lot of legumes though. Some people simply haven't built the gut bacteria for it and other people will never be able to adapt to it because of genetics. Do you have links for these health problems though? Most of them don't seem true at all for me. Especially muscle wasting lol. Legumes are literally a great protein source. 

And you don't have to eat a ton of legumes as a vegan. You can build more around starches, pseudo grain, tofu, nuts, seeds, veggies, fruits. You can eat that very well prepared with moderate amount of fiber and still get your nutritional needs met with a little bit of supplementation. 

Yeah fruit diets are dumb af, that's not what an educated vegan would eat. 

Quote

It is probably the opposite that happened to homo sapiens.
Primates (plant based) who have been forced to adopt a meat-rich diet due to various violent climatic changes.
Men still have primate/herbivore characteristics such as teeth, but have also and above all developed carnivore traits, such as a lean and slender physique, more gynoid muscle distribution in general, a more efficient ENT system, greater sweating capacity , stiffer feet and ankles (propulsion), stronger stomach acid for protein digestion (even more than dogs), intestines still large but smaller than other herbivores/primates, more developed gallbladders, high production of protease/ lipase etc
The gallbladder is also developed in humans and I have seen many people develop gallbladder problems on a low fat diet.

I think what's important for health is what is happening in our gut. 

Quote

Agree

But back to the starting point, you need to excessively tweak, fix, and season your vegan diet to make it enjoyable.

ketogenic-vegan-diet       just as an example of what's possible but not the go to vegan diet. 

Well we had that argumentation before. Most people still season their meat. Also high calorie food such as fatty meat or fish taste good universally because of lots of calories and that this an an unfair comparison even though I don't mind the taste of unseasoned veggies, find some legumes and starches by themselves pretty enjoyable and I like fruit. And if I were really hungry I would probably love all these foods. 

Quote

Incidentally, none of the plants you mentioned exist in nature. And excess polyunsaturated fats can decrease androgen sensitivity, increase estrogen signaling, create more oxidative stress during their beta oxidations than saturated fatty acids, or even glucose oxidation.
The matrix should theoretically help to compensate for these problems (polyphenols, vitamin e...) but this is only a theory.
There was a time when I ate a lot of nuts and my skin/hair was in bad shape.
It may be a coincidence but I'm not the only one having these problems.
It also depends on the nuts, of course.

The matrix?

Omega3 fatty acids are literally a subset of polyunsaturated fats

Do you know what you are talking about with all that?

It's true though that a high omega6 to omega3 ratio in your diet can cause problems like inflammation and not so great skin can also be attributed to that. So yeah a good amount of fish or a good amount of o3 supplementation is important for good health. 

Edit: Ideally the ratio should be 1:1 although almost nobody even comes close to this and most of the greatest minds probably don't have that ratio either. 

Although it's pretty rare too much omega3 is also bad for health. So fish should be balanced out with plant fat sources. 

Quote

In fact, most of them are just amino acids that are not very present in plants.

All essential amino acids can be found in plants in good quantities. 

Quote

The fact is that none of these carnivorous or herbivorous animals come even remotely close to human intelligence, and that intelligence is enabled by an exceptionally large amount of certain omega 3s.
Probably for membrane fluidity (or passage of electrons) even simpler than omega 6s, something like that.

All animals that eat fish aren't as intelligent as humans. 

So this "If there is a survival benefit to intelligence animals become more intelligent no matter what their diet is and if not they stay dumb no matter what their diet is. At least that's my observation." still stands. 

Also I wouldn't discount animals so quickly. Many animals have incredible problem solving abilities. Our natural environment which is very intellectual makes us a lot more intelligent just by itself. If animals would have the same cognitive tasks each day suited to their species then I think they would be far more intelligent. And even if not as intelligent as humans they still got intelligence somehow without fish. So it's wrong to say that omega 3s enable intelligence. If that were the case no plant eater would ever reach any level of intelligence. 

Quote

No.
You like fruits, tubers and a handful of well-cooked vegetables, the majority of which have been selected and hybridized.

I like pretty much ll veggies in cooked form and many of them raw by themselves. Your taste buts adapt to what you eat you now. 

Yes most of them have been selected and hybridized.

But it's the same for animals. 

Quote

There's a difference between sometimes having gas, and turning into a human jet pack.
Depending on your genetics, too much fibrous food will turn you into a human hydrogen bomb and maybe cause you SIBO.

I can eat more than 100g of dried red lentils in cooked form sometimes without having to fart once when I am relaxed. I can eat a lot more legumes a day although then I need to fart but I don't get stomach problems below like 300g of dried matter. My gut is definitely adapted to it but it might also be genetics. 

Quote

Was it meat or plants for that matter? 

Both

Quote

If you think humans are rather herbivorous then you will think HCLF is ideal, both through HCLF propaganda (McDougall, Furhman, Esselstyn...) and, above all, quite simply because there is no abundant sources of vegetable fats in nature.
You have nuts, avocados and coconuts thanks to globalization.

seeds, everything has a little bit of fat in it, .. no clue if in the end that would be enough. But we need relatively little fat to be healthy. It can be as low as 10% of your calories coming from fat and that is still considered healthy (if its good fat sources).

Quote

Sorry I meant Tamarind

oh okay. Doesn't that taste like a sugar bomb? I loved the taste when I once had it. 

Quote

There is a youtubeur on youtube who made a video about his past as a frugivore with Sv3rige. He explained that once in a state of cachexia, almost to the point of death, he had had a terrible instinctive craving for butter and raw chicken.

Another anecdote: a controversial French naturopath who explained that he too had fallen into a state of cachexia, with tuberculosis and pancreatic disease.
He explained that he did a blind instinctotherapy "test" among lots of foods, and was attracted the most by a very fatty piece of pork, even though he was more or less vegan.
He gained weight and recovered from his chronic illnesses on a "primal" diet. (mainly meat and fruit).

Do what you want with it. 

If I just hear names like Sv3rige or Freelee the banana girl I know you listen to very uneducated people. 

Sorry to say it so harshly. 

They are extremist on both sides. 

You filled your mind with trash from listening to these people.

If you want to listen to good vegan YouTubers listen to someone like Derek from Simnet nutrition. Just someone who actually studied that shit. 

Quote

Probably.

So they probably aren't really.
It depends on the organs and the preparation afterwards.

yeah

Quote

Several times a week.
Most people lack omega 3.

yeah but even lets say 3 times a week fish and the rest plants. That could be as little as 5% of calories. 

Quote

This kind of discussion never ends ah ah, it's a black hole of energy. 

We keep on finding new points aargh 

 

I mean we got at least this far. We both agree that we are adapted to a cooked omnivores diet because of omega3s ALA and EPA/DHA. 

Supplementing can be pretty as healthy as the real things even though it is not as natural although humans kind of isolate things sometimes. 

What the argumentation revolves around now is I think "Can the bulk of the diet be plants or should there be a significant agree of animal products in it?"

Edited April 28, 2023 by Jannes

[M A J I]

Some Pioneers of raw natural (human) food who are thriving and looking much younger than most people their age. And then there are 100s of plant-based pioneers who look amazing for their age compared to those who eat animal products and junk/incorrect foods... Hell even the Sadguru knows whats up..

The level of denial of truth on this forum is beyond me.

[Jannes]

6 hours ago, M A J I said:

25-30 pounds of fruit 

In bananas that would be 10735 calories and 125g of protein and 34g of fat

In apples that would be 5856 calories and 34g of protein 45g of fat

It's funny that at those quantities even fruit becomes a fat and protein source. 

6 hours ago, M A J I said:

The level of denial of truth on this forum is beyond me.

Because the truth is often boring and these "miraculous" examples are mostly rare exceptions and often don't show the full truth. There are 8 billions people on earth with different genetics. Someone will have the right genetic to thrive on anything. And if it was all so obvious everybody would have figured it out already. 

[M A J I]

1 hour ago, Jannes said:

25-30 pounds of fruit 

In bananas that would be 10735 calories and 125g of protein and 34g of fat

In apples that would be 5856 calories and 34g of protein 45g of fat

It's funny that at those quantities even fruit becomes a fat and protein source. 

Because the truth is often boring and these "miraculous" examples are mostly rare exceptions and often don't show the full truth. There are 8 billions people on earth with different genetics. Someone will have the right genetic to thrive on anything. And if it was all so obvious everybody would have figured it out already. 

Incorrect, we are all one human species with the same core/fundamental genetics. Yes most of us have been brought up in ignorance but as I said, once you clear up the (toxins/poisons) in your body, consciousness naturally arises (as your body/vessel/receiver starts to function at higher levels) and "receive" more signals from the cosmos... and thus you naturally tap into your greater humen intelligence (to see the 'bigger picture' and 'connect the dots') rather than some animal-mutation high were all addicted that act as stimulants and drugs, addicted to sex and animal-pleasures, and low conscious behavior, yet while on a self-actualization forum.

Rather than resort back to the natural (species specific diet) e.g for humans that is Fruit and actually become Alive, Awake and "living" , not half-asleep, you cannot thrive then, it is only survival. Yes everyone is at different levels of consciousness/vibration but that does not change the fundamental, undeniable, fact that humans are designed for plants, predominantly fruit, than anything else.

This is why birthing mothers who were given high doses of Iodine and fruit (which flushes fluoride out of the body and aids in overall detoxification) resulted in higher IQ and more emotionally intelligent children than the all the previous children they had. All the answers are within the Pineal Gland. This is why people haven't figured it out, they are all still deep asleep.

Edited April 30, 2023 by M A J I

[M A J I]

2 minutes ago, RebornConsciousness said:

According to this guy, the concept of calories doesn't exist either, he's "debunked" it. So, you know... tread lightly

They are but a concept, an outdated science. I have experimented with almost all known diet/nutrition/lifestyle combinations for the last 15 years, extensively, what I discovered in my studies and experience is that its not about calories but more so about nutrient-density, yet ultimately, its about biological nutrient efficiency, when the correct fuel for the body is provided, the proper healing and repair of the body thru Intracellular revitalization takes place, before you can start to feel truly healthy and alive again, which is why most try it then bail.. they are not properly educated, they experience 'difficulties', they have no guide or teacher with experience, they panic and bail.. not realizing they were experiencing (the detox symptoms).

Think about how many years you ate junk food and toxic food/incorrect fuel in the body, Imagine always adding petrol to your diesel engine or vice versa, it is going to take you at least 1/4 of that time to heal all of that unless you do extreme juicing and fasting for long periods of time, but maybe if you are lucky, a few years of just fruit will bring all the proof and evidence you need. Then we can discuss things as humans. Because when you operate at higher levels of health and circulate, regenerate and recreate effectively, you don't need nowhere near as much food/substance.

I have even gained muscle mass on both OMAD 1000 - 1500 calories a day(plant-based) and 3000 on fruit, results were same, people have yet to truly understand how the body works. This is where I have specialized. Dr Nun Amen Ra debunks such science first hand, you can find him online where he proves its (nutrient-density) that is paramount, not calories.

[Schizophonia]

On 28/04/2023 at 10:09 PM, Jannes said:

 

If I just hear names like Sv3rige or Freelee the banana girl I know you listen to very uneducated people. 

I'm just gonna answer this cause it's getting annoying
Frelee sometimes appears on youtube for some obscure reason, for Sv3rige I watched some "interviews" of ex vegans, that's all.
Why not answer on the merits?
It is not because a person is marginal, even bizarre, even mentally ill that everything that emanates from him is devoid of reason/interest.

Otherwise these people are not my "references", I refer to no one, and when this is the case I take people who are said to be the most informed.
When I was vegan I "followed" people like McDougall, Fuhrman, Dr Greger...
I have read their studies and tried their "diet".

On 28/04/2023 at 10:09 PM, Jannes said:

Sorry to say it so harshly. 

Bring me closer to spending too much time on the internet, it's true 

But don't blame me for "not being informed".

On 28/04/2023 at 10:09 PM, Jannes said:

They are extremist on both sides. 

agree

That's why I eat and do what I want. I remain aware that the body is a war machine for survival and that diet culture is partly paranoia.
I eat steaks, oats and red bull and am more energetic and quick-witted than the majority of orthorexics, as long as I sleep well, avoid ruminating... 

[Schizophonia]

11 hours ago, M A J I said:

Some Pioneers of raw natural (human) food who are thriving and looking much younger than most people their age. And then there are 100s of plant-based pioneers who look amazing for their age compared to those who eat animal products and junk/incorrect foods... Hell even the Sadguru knows whats up..

The level of denial of truth on this forum is beyond me.

Why sadhguru speaks in slow motion and looks like a bottle of orangina ?

Why is Dr. Morse is fat and lacking in muscle tone, has gray hair, and talks in slow motion?

Why doug graham speaks in slow motion and has incredibly thin skin?

Why do 3/4 of fruitarians look like they have dementia/have a shitty stream of thought?

Why the only muscular fruitarian (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR1FCJS8DoM) looks ODDLY (could just be a coincidence, don't get carried away lol) like someone on a high dose of nandrolone or derivative of 19nor-testosterone.

Why am I more muscular and quick-witted than 3/4 of fruitarians? Why do most women (like freelee by the way) lose their periods? Why most men are physically weak and infertile (when not on TRT, HCG or even deca roids lol)

etc

And especially : 

Why do you repeatedly say that others are ignorant/in denial, when we have absolutely no evidence or rational reasoning for what you say? Are you able to debate and understand that you too have a controversial and marginal opinion ? 

These are serious questions. 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Jannes]

2 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

I'm just gonna answer this cause it's getting annoying

Ok

2 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Frelee sometimes appears on youtube for some obscure reason, for Sv3rige I watched some "interviews" of ex vegans, that's all.
Why not answer on the merits?
It is not because a person is marginal, even bizarre, even mentally ill that everything that emanates from him is devoid of reason/interest.

Otherwise these people are not my "references", I refer to no one, and when this is the case I take people who are said to be the most informed.
When I was vegan I "followed" people like McDougall, Fuhrman, Dr Greger...
I have read their studies and tried their "diet".

Of course they can have some good point but they are also good at triggering and working with panic to get their point across. They can make very stupid things believable because they activate some more primal parts of our brain. For example if they show examples of vegans who look like skeletons and put it in a story where they don't outline the things the vegan did wrong with their vegan diet and just say This is the result of being vegan period. That triggers some real deep primal panic in you. Even if you now that the particular vegan is mentally ill, maybe only eats a handful of fruit and does everything wrong and could easily gain weight with grains, nuts, legumes, .. the more emotional stuff shapes your mind a lot more then a rational argumentation. That's why I wouldn't listen to it to begin with because it's hard to bring reason into a very emotionally shaped view on something.

Just like you can't convince your emotions that you can just be chill and talk to that hot girl because she is just another human like you. Well maybe but that takes a lot of hard work, a loooot of convincing of the rational mind. 

2 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Bring me closer to spending too much time on the internet, it's true 

But don't blame me for "not being informed".

I don't think you're bad informed otherwise I would not have argued with you for so long. I just feel like the way you talk about some things you seem to be emotionally about it. 

"diet" like why? That's so emotionally charged.

 

 

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, Jannes said:

Ok

Of course they can have some good point but they are also good at triggering and working with panic to get their point across. They can make very stupid things believable because they activate some more primal parts of our brain. For example if they show examples of vegans who look like skeletons and put it in a story where they don't outline the things the vegan did wrong with their vegan diet and just say This is the result of being vegan period. That triggers some real deep primal panic in you. Even if you now that the particular vegan is mentally ill, maybe only eats a handful of fruit and does everything wrong and could easily gain weight with grains, nuts, legumes, .. the more emotional stuff shapes your mind a lot more then a rational argumentation. That's why I wouldn't listen to it to begin with because it's hard to bring reason into a very emotionally shaped view on something.

I know a lot of people are outcasts with weird diets.
But when I quoted freelee and sv4rige, it was to respond to the frugivore diet proposition, not an argument against veganism as a general rule.

1 hour ago, Jannes said:

Just like you can't convince your emotions that you can just be chill and talk to that hot girl because she is just another human like you. Well maybe but that takes a lot of hard work, a loooot of convincing of the rational mind. 

I'm not an English speaker, I'm not sure I understand. It doesn't matter.

1 hour ago, Jannes said:

I don't think you're bad informed otherwise I would not have argued with you for so long. I just feel like the way you talk about some things you seem to be emotionally about it. 

It's probably true

1 hour ago, Jannes said:

"diet" like why? That's so emotionally charged.

 

 

I put "diet" in quotation marks to emphasize the misnomer, because it's generally more a way of eating than a real plan.
It wasn't a mark of disdain. 

[Jannes]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

I know a lot of people are outcasts with weird diets.
But when I quoted freelee and sv4rige, it was to respond to the frugivore diet proposition, not an argument against veganism as a general rule.

Oh okay. Yeah I don't think much of frugivore diets as well. 

Quote

I'm not an English speaker, I'm not sure I understand. It doesn't matter.

Oh I just basically meant that sometimes our emotions completely dominate our rational mind and wanted to illustrate that on a romantic example but I didn't write that well sorry.

Quote

I put "diet" in quotation marks to emphasize the misnomer, because it's generally more a way of eating than a real plan.
It wasn't a mark of disdain. 

Okay I misunderstood. 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Jannes

[RendHeaven]

On 4/30/2023 at 8:49 AM, Schizophonia said:

Why sadhguru speaks in slow motion and looks like a bottle of orangina ?

Bro you're my favorite user on this forum ??????

[Schizophonia]

19 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

Bro you're my favorite user on this forum ??????

ty 

[M A J I]

On 01/05/2023 at 0:49 AM, Schizophonia said:

Why sadhguru speaks in slow motion and looks like a bottle of orangina ?

Maybe because he only eats once a day and is very calm and centered?

Why is Dr. Morse is fat and lacking in muscle tone, has gray hair, and talks in slow motion?

Robert Morse is a scientist, he mostly sits down and goes deep into research, his life doesn't seem too active but almost everyone who has followed his guidelines has experienced some kind of health transformation. John Rose is a better example who is strong and muscular if that is what you are seeking, and grey hair isn't always an age thing, many prophets symbolize grey hair as wisdom (like a silverback gorilla). I would personally say its a combination of things, mostly "stress" related to radiation from artificial environments full of electronics. If you want some raw vegan examples of zero grey hair look at Annette Larkins and Lou Corona they are 70 and 80+ years with not a single grey, they also look 40 - 50 years at most.

The percentage of grey hair ratio on raw foodists is lower than any other diet known to man, hence because its the natural human diet. Nature created perfect foods for us and our ignorance ignores it then we die a stressful and premature death at 100 when we are meant to be living several times longer as raw living foodists do in most cases in more natural environments. There are many plant-based tribes who live perfectly long lives from the fresh and wild fruit they collect and eat and natural and simple lives they live like the Hunza.

Why doug graham speaks in slow motion and has incredibly thin skin?

If you want to know the (true health & vitality) of people you don't look at the "externals" you look at their eyes, their glow, their radiance, but of course a diet excess in factory farmed animal products and wrong foods don't let you see with your (spiritual sight). In fact it will close the 3rd eye and pineal gland down. So of course your vision is distorted...

Why do 3/4 of fruitarians look like they have dementia/have a shitty stream of thought?

The 3/4 of the fruitarians you have seen online maybe, I have seen and met in (real life), thousands who say otherwise. Here is what I said to another forum user around the same question.

(Its easy to find that which you seek and (bypass) that which you don't wanna face or see. I've met many people like you that do not wish to face such truths so you "attract" those who are not the best examples to make your ego feel better about itself within the realms of its (comfort zone) so it can continuing living in its (happy place) when there are literally thousands of better examples if you actually wanna look and see).

Why the only muscular fruitarian (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR1FCJS8DoM) looks ODDLY (could just be a coincidence, don't get carried away lol) like someone on a high dose of nandrolone or derivative of 19nor-testosterone.

First of all the Dr Nun Amen Ra is not a Fruitarian, he believes in (One Vegan Meal A Day) and he debunks modern science by gaining muscle, having extraordinary physique and only eating 1000 - 1500 calories a day. He also holds world records for drug-free (they get tested) deadlift in his weight class. Tell that to your meat eating scientists/addicts .

Here are some example of muscular fruitarians:

https://www.youtube.com/@BryanMirabella

https://www.youtube.com/@PathtoWellness1979

https://www.youtube.com/@TheFreeMelonSociety

 

Why am I more muscular and quick-witted than 3/4 of fruitarians? Why do most women (like freelee by the way) lose their periods? Why most men are physically weak and infertile (when not on TRT, HCG or even deca roids lol)

This is the typical response of a (meat-head) who has low intelligence and cannot connect the dots that we are plant-eaters by natural design because they are too dull and caught up in the whole (muscle/protein) nonsense. 99% of muscular people you see today at the gym are (Inflamed) by fake foods and supplements, 99% Drugs. Most of them won't live past 70 and die of some heart-attack or disease.

Most fruitarians are more interested in health and optimal human function rather than being muscular for the ego and the chicks so it is much less likely for them to be at the gym every day. Most of them prefer yoga, tai chi, meditation, running or cardio exercise because it goes hand in hand with their lifestyle and longevity. They are not interested in lower conscious/animalistic ways of thinking as meat-heads are.

So their bodies naturally will not look like an inflamed monkey on drugs but healthy and lean(how we all should be), especially if they are not lifting heavy weights all the time because their brains are expanding from the proper nutrition leading them to higher values in life.

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by M A J I

[Schizophonia]

15 hours ago, M A J I said:

 

Maybe because he only eats once a day and is very calm and centered?

 

You did not answer the question. With so few calories (why, by the way?) but a diet that would allow him to have a functional endocrine system, he would at least be lean and muscular (that's what you say later in your message ).
Now I ask my question again: Why is his body composition disastrous, and why does he have so little energy?

Don't try to spin things your way, he's not "calm and contented", he has a slow mental flow and basically looks like he has low iq.
That said, it is not frugivorous.

 

Quote

 

Robert Morse is a scientist, he mostly sits down and goes deep into research, his life doesn't seem too active but almost everyone who has followed his guidelines has experienced some kind of health transformation.

You're literally explaining in a twisted way (so that it goes your way lol) that you can't afford to be too inactive on your fruit super diet or you'll look like crap.
I also don't know why you dwell on his weight, I also mentioned his white hair, and it is not related to exercise.
Besides, John Rose, whom you quote just after, also has white hair...

Quote

John Rose is a better example who is strong and muscular if that is what you are seeking, and grey hair isn't always an age thing, many prophets symbolize grey hair as wisdom (like a silverback gorilla). I would personally say its a combination of things, mostly "stress" related to radiation from artificial environments full of electronics.

Everyone is exposed to these stresses and more, yet not everyone has gray hair and looks like crap.

Otherwise, John rose is very very active, he says it several times in his videos, so yes he manages to have a correct body composition.
But it's not a sign that a diet is good if it reduces your anabolism so much that you have to be very athletic to have a decent man's physique.

Quote

many prophets symbolize grey hair as wisdom (like a silverback gorilla).

No, it just means that you are getting older and your ability to matebolize melanin is becoming impaired.
It's not just white hair, it's also, for example, eyes that turn gray (especially in white people).

Quote

If you want some raw vegan examples of zero grey hair look at Annette Larkins

Women have less white hair

Quote

and Lou Corona they are 70 and 80+ years with not a single grey, they also look 40 - 50 years at most.

I have no idea who this person is so I wouldn't say anything about him.

Quote

The percentage of grey hair ratio on raw foodists is lower than any other diet known to man, hence because its the natural human diet.

Source : Evian

Quote

Nature created perfect foods for us and our ignorance ignores it then we die a stressful and premature death at 100 when we are meant to be living several times longer as raw living foodists do in most cases in more natural environments. There are many plant-based tribes who live perfectly long lives from the fresh and wild fruit they collect and eat and natural and simple lives they live like the Hunza.

It's just a random region in Pakistan where people, like elsewhere in the country, eat wheat "pancakes", meatloaf, vegetables and yoghurt.

But you are going to tell me that according to an obscure source, there was a tribe of the type who lived there before and lived 500 years by eating fruits (which ones by the way?), all "argued" by Hindu delusions of yuga etc That's it ?

Quote

 

If you want to know the (true health & vitality) of people you don't look at the "externals" you look at their eyes, their glow, their radiance, but of course a diet excess in factory farmed animal products and wrong foods don't let you see with your (spiritual sight). In fact it will close the 3rd eye and pineal gland down. So of course your vision is distorted...

You sound like someone with schizophrenia.
All the people you mentioned are behaving, at best, in a more or less normal way.

Quote

 

The 3/4 of the fruitarians you have seen online maybe, I have seen and met in (real life), thousands who say otherwise. Here is what I said to another forum user around the same question.

Well yes, of course... 

Quote

(Its easy to find that which you seek and (bypass) that which you don't wanna face or see. I've met many people like you that do not wish to face such truths so you "attract" those who are not the best examples to make your ego feel better about itself within the realms of its (comfort zone) so it can continuing living in its (happy place) when there are literally thousands of better examples if you actually wanna look and see).

Looks like pure projection

Quote

 

First of all the Dr Nun Amen Ra is not a Fruitarian, he believes in (One Vegan Meal A Day) and he debunks modern science by gaining muscle, having extraordinary physique and only eating 1000 - 1500 calories a day. He also holds world records for drug-free (they get tested) deadlift in his weight class. Tell that to your meat eating scientists/addicts .

This is completely stupid.
You can inject yourself with monstrous doses of non-esterified trenbolone (or even just testosterone) daily which will remain in the blood for much less than even a single day, and therefore appear "naty" for a blood test the next day.
Same with HCG, HGH/Ibutamoren, etc.

Since you're so smart and knowledgeable you must know that, right? 

Quote

Here are some example of muscular fruitarians:

https://www.youtube.com/@BryanMirabella

https://www.youtube.com/@PathtoWellness1979

https://www.youtube.com/@TheFreeMelonSociety

I watched the first video of the first links you posted : 

When you tell me about people who are more energetic and happy than the "ordinary zombies" (???), I don't really expect a guy who stares at the camera like an autistic, searches for his words and moves in an unsmooth way.
Sounds like me when I was insomnia and trying to pretend to be energetic.

He has the same slow and unenthusiastic way of speaking as Doug Graham, John Rose etc.

I take the liberty of posting a video of my colleague from this topic to show you what someone really dopaminergic and with an efficient nervous system looks like.
(Follows a diet similar to Saladino)

And again, do you know how these people live, if they are under trt etc.?
I lost strength and muscle on a vegan diet, I can't imagine on a fruit diet and that's what happens to a lot of people.

Quote

This is the typical response of a (meat-head) who has low intelligence and cannot connect the dots that we are plant-eaters by natural design because they are too dull and caught up in the whole (muscle/protein) nonsense

I find you very arrogant and aggressive for someone who never takes the trouble to bring rational and at least deep explanations to his ideas, and who in addition makes false modesty based on "yes I'm nice, so I still post in case a seed germinates, it's not at all to boost my ego by explaining life to others in an unpleasant way no lol"

If the relationship between muscle and protein is nonsense, you can explain why the vast majority of bodybuilders consume large amounts of protein, including in the form of supplements ?
Why literally all the athletes I know lose performance (including mental) by decreasing protein?
My friend who is an athlete in bodybuilding and who is a cyclist explained to me that he lost a lot in performance if he went below 100g per day of (animal) protein, is he a fool?

But you are smarter than everyone else? Why don't you become a millionaire by becoming a sports coach and explaining to athletes of different disciplines that it is enough to eat "positively pranic food"? 

Quote

. 99% of muscular people you see today at the gym are (Inflamed) by fake foods and supplements, 99% Drugs. Most of them won't live past 70 and die of some heart-attack or disease.

begging the question

Again, where did you get this information?

Quote

Most fruitarians are more interested in health and optimal human function rather than being muscular for the ego and the chicks so it is much less likely for them to be at the gym every day. Most of them prefer yoga, tai chi, meditation, running or cardio exercise because it goes hand in hand with their lifestyle and longevity. They are not interested in lower conscious/animalistic ways of thinking as meat-heads are.

If you are in good health, your hormonal cascade will be strong and you will not need to be very active or do weight training to have at least a decent physique.

A healthy man will be strong

Quote

So their bodies naturally will not look like an inflamed monkey on drugs but healthy and lean(how we all should be), especially if they are not lifting heavy weights all the time because their brains are expanding from the proper nutrition leading them to higher values in life.

Oh yes ?
Let's play a game 
Among these two people, (Dr Nun Amen Ra / a French fitness lambda youtuber) which one looks the most like a "inflamed monkey injecting nandrolone in the ass"?

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by Schizophonia

[M A J I]

Whatever you say jose, I don't have to continue with this endless ramble with your thick skull. I have shared enough evidence and proof in the first few pages that we humans are clearly not carnivores, and if you cannot make anything of that then you have already made up your mind and simply cannot see past your own shit. The very fact that you had to make this topic and endlessly defend it with poor and repetitive responses reveals more than enough proof that you don't truly believe it yourself, let alone know. Enjoy your delusion.

[CherryColouredFunk]

I've gotten a lot healthier recently, lost weight, gained muscle, and it's not because I consumed this internet propaganda that vegans or other people put out.

My diet has been high protein while in a calorie deficit, that's it. And it's easier to do those things when you eat more clean. I eat a lot of meat. I don't care whether it is plant or animal, if it's high in protein it's good for my active lifestyle and lifting goals.

Edited June 7, 2023 by CherryColouredFunk

[CherryColouredFunk]

And I don't believe the keto hype. Just count calories, and use common sense to avoid unhealthy food