[lol] It's so obvious that humans are carnivores.

[zurew]

@Schizophonia So TLDR: you have nothing tangible, other than a handful of testimonials.

17 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

 So what ?  you gonna obey authority like a child and stop working with psychedelics and post on actualizes.org?

"Don't bother looking at the studies dude, just look for people that are agreeing with you on the subject, and that way you can be sure and confident that you are right (btw guys, I am not biased, and I am not ideogically driven, even though most of my posts only consist of bashing other diets, rather than actually making a strong case for why the carnivore diet is the best)" 

No one said that anyone needs to obey anyone, and we are not really talking about one authority on a subject that you need to believe blindly (although, unironically, so far your case only consist of one person, who is undeniably biased on this topic). What a reasonable person would do, is to look for the overall body of evidence, what we have on a certain topic, and not jump to conclusions immediatelly and not making strong and confident claims about things that are not verified yet. 

Sorry, that im not convinced by you showing one person, who is clearly a marketer of this topic.

 

The title of this thread and your posts overall speaks volumes on what kind of epistemic process you have. You think that having a handful of testimonials is a strong enough evidence for you to completely change your diet and to even tell others that they should follow you. You seem to be very biased and unironically very ideologically driven (its blatantly obvious from your first post, where most of your posts only consis of bashing other diets rather than actually building a strong case for the carnivore diet.

 

[Schizophonia]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Schizophonia I've done carnivore for over a year. My bloodwork is much worse than ever.

What markers?  What are you eating ?  ?

[Israfil]

16 hours ago, M A J I said:

There are tribes found around the world people only eating 1 to 2 fruit meals a day living average 200 - 300+ years life spans.

 

Can you name a few of these?

[Michael569]

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

can you explain why you need to put fruit (sweet stuff) in your cereal porridge to make it more or less edible?

I love fruits. Love the taste, low how healthy they are, and I feel good when my diet is rich in fibre.  Fruits are to me what butter is to you.

My gut can handle 100 grams of fibre per day without consequences.  And yes to your point, barley porridge on its own is a bit dull, but does that mean the food itself is automatically unhealthy?.....I don't really like this argument of "people need fruit with food otherwise, it tastes blend"

Why not combine foods to make them more palatable if you can? What's wrong with that? Most people already suffer enough, have tremendous amounts of burdens, raising kids, paying bills in a double-digit inflation, doing shit jobs they hate, stressors and anxieties in their life, and can't make their food palatable without being guilted by freaks on the internet? Life comes in balance. Nothing good ever comes of extremes

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

Can you also explain why the "carnivores" I quoted are in good health including no problems with arteriosclerosis?

Because they are highly educated, highly privileged, white males living in the richest regions of the world, wealthy and EXTREMELY biased sample.

They are not the regular Joe or regular Jane with zero health knowledge who cannot just navigate all the pitfalls. 

I have seen the way people with low nutritional knowledge do keto or carnivore. They eat fucking salamis with mayonnaise and fried eggs and reject fruits and vegetables. They think they are doing what Paul is doing when he loads his steak with a pound of vegetables. They are not. Most people who attempt these diets end up with high LDL and high blood pressure. 

This is my main grievance that these clowns have complete disregard for how people misunderstand their advice, and all they hear is "red meat is good". Go on nutrition Twitter and actually look up the examples of young carnivores having their bypasses, colonic polyps found on colonoscopy in their early 40s. It is not worth it, the diet is too risky, there are too many unknown variables. 

People do not differentiate between processed and unprocessed. They cannot tell what fats are saturated and which are not. They don't understand fibre, they don't understand the importance of microbiota. They remember the things that are most exciting - "vegans are wrong, and meat is good" and they go on a crusade (kinda like what you did above) with 2% of the big picture understanding, completely ignorant of the fact that their picture is missing 98% of the clarity. And when someone tries to educate them, someone with PhD let's say, they are dismissed as "epidemiology fanatics" - it is a freaking clownshow. 

1 hour ago, Schizophonia said:

There are some carnivores with problems

All carnivores have problems which is why they become carnivores in the first place. Do you think it is normal that people cannot digest fibre even thou humans have been eating high-fibre diets pretty much since the times of ancient Egypt and the Roman Empire, way before that even. 

It's just that it is human nature to become a crusader and ideologist which is how this nonsense spreads. 

To be honest, I would rather get SIBO than colorectal cancer if those were my two choices. 

[The0Self]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Schizophonia I've done carnivore for over a year. My bloodwork is much worse than ever. It is certainly not healthy. Of course that doesn't mean some amount of meat is bad for health. But all-meat is not the proper diet for a human. These social media influencers are selling you fantasies, both meat-eaters and vegans. Balance in your diet is key.

I've actually been wondering about how it affected your blood work. Sometimes the blood work at 3 months on a particular diet style isn't nearly as useful as that at 1+ year, because a few months is just not enough time for blood work to seriously change. Definitely expected for all-meat to worsen blood work at 1 year. What was affected the most? Triglycerides and HDL? Triglycerides and VLDL?

It sounds like all-meat is just the least worst option for some like you and JBP, but I wonder if you can mitigate its negative effects with vegetables or healthy carbohydrates that don't irritate your system, or with EPA and DHA at a sufficient amount and optimal ratio. Especially if triglycerides have worsened, 2g EPA + 900mg DHA (or at least 600mg EPA + 300mg DHA) daily might help a few things. And exercise, and perhaps limiting fat intake.

Edited April 18, 2023 by The0Self

[Thought Art]

Obvious we are not Carnivores because we simply aren’t?

[Jannes]

On 17.4.2023 at 10:16 PM, Schizophonia said:

It's about eating what's natural and actually makes you happy.

Just because you did something in the past doesn't mean you should do it in the future. 

Quote

Meat/animal fat, fruits, honey, raw dairy products, low-fiber leafy vegetables, possibly nuts (more like a paleo/primal diet after all, carnivore is a misnomer)

Lol how are bred fruits, regular large amounts of honey, dairy, leafy vegetables yes but low fiber natural? I don't say it's wrong to eat that but it doesn't really fit into a primal diet imo. If you want to be really primal I would integrate roots, high-fiber leafy vegetables and fruits, insects..

Quote

Keto is also a mental illness like veganism, they forbid themselves to eat delicious fruits and force themselves to eat filthy goitrogenic green leaves. It's rubbish and based on flawed macronutrient reasoning.

Keto people eat little fruit and carbs in general to stay in ketosis. 

Do you have a scientific answer why a "meat heavy paleo diet" is good? Because how you would apply it it wouldn't bring you in ketosis and so I wonder where the big difference in how you feel comes from..?

Edited April 18, 2023 by Jannes

[undeather]

[M A J I]

5 hours ago, Israfil said:

Can you name a few of these?

Most cases of true longevity beyond what the western news/media tell us I found in the book Mans Higher Consciousness by Hilton Hotema, from there are the links and articles of the finds of each case. The book is in my mothers place so I don't have access to it right now but you can try google a pdf.
 

[M A J I]

I personally have tried every diet known to man, nothing makes me feel healthier and more energized, alive, clear, conscious, than predominantly (organic) fruit-based. Anything close to the "fasting state" is the ideal state of consciousness. When I fast (unless you have mucus/toxins) which 99.9% of people do, you will feel a energy unlike anything else food can ever do for you, besides some extra energy and stimulation, fruit is closest thing.

I've been on the mastery and perfection of the human body/mind path for 10 + years, It is quite clear too me now, not only makes sense to my consciousness/intelligence, it is evident in my direct experience itself.

Now most people would probably feel like shit for the first few days or weeks, if they only eat fruit and fast because the decades of poisons and toxins in ones body from the wrong foods and more especially.. wrong environment, extremely polluted air and artificial (radiated) atmosphere, opposite from the mountainous/tropical regions that would be ideal for the human being. And so usually what happens when you do this, is a very rapid release, cleansing and flushing of these toxins, parasites, old-waste matter ect... This usually can take several months to several years to complete, depending on how you do it.

So its a (transition) and you must (honour) where you are at each and every moment, because food is habitual, no different than drugs, so we must slowly wean off the denser vibratory foods, and consume less and less as we incorporate more and more lighter and lesser foods.

Then Ideal would be to not eat at all, The Air is primary, water and everything else is secondary, but that's an entirely different conversation on its own and our environments are too polluted and artificial for that now, most of them at least.

Many people fail because they try to do everything overnight, I personally was one of the few people who could do it, as it made total sense to me that we are more herbivore/frugivore by natural design, but overtime I did experiment and go back and forth to give all types of food/diets a chance.

And there are some who can do it just like that and feel amazing straight and never go back. I experienced this back in 2010 and I was able to transmute effectively because I was already in a very high vibratory state because of my meditations and focus on love and ascension, but most will have to deal with the (shit/shadows) they put into their bodies all their lives before they can get to the light, it is only natural process, which I discovered later on in my experiments and life-experience. There is really no escaping the dark, one way or another.

Fruit & Fasting clears things up from the inside out so (things will be brought up to the surface) whether it be physical, emotional, mental, spiritual ect... this is why people prefer carnivore, or denser foods, its more comforting and helps numb the pain and emotions and not have to deal with them as intensely, and this is why many vegans today who make the switch too rapidly for their consciousness, experience something like trauma/ego backlash, health issues ect.. and revert back to animal products as they did not know or were properly educated for the (transitionary process) which again can take years, and you must honour that and be respectful and patient with your body that you unconsciously abused all your life with wrong and fake foods, especially processed/supermarket foods.

Those junk foods are full of chemicals and way worse than meat alone, our body actually thrives in simplicity and closer to nature. This is why carnivore only, or potatoes only, or fruit only, or type type of food works very well, because it gives the body a break. The body is not designed to process 150 different flavors, herbs and spices as you would say a typical Indian curry, the body will actually process a simple steak much better, in most cases.

We evolved gathering fruit and stumbling across a tree and consuming that until it was done, and later in the darker ages, as consciousness dropped, meat and hunting an animals came around, but it was always (simple) few foods at most a day. Today people have a toxic amount of variety and consume so many different foods a day and no wonder why their bodies and minds and emotions are a mess and have all types of allergies and diseases. The further from nature the food is, the more chaos and disruption you put into the body and the more challenging it will become to completely transmute it.

Another great book is: Mucusless Diet Healing System by Professor Arnold Ehret

This is another good read https://flowhealingarts.org/news/2016/8/23/flow-cleansing-strategies

Hope this helps

 

[Recursoinominado]

After veganism, raw foods, frugivorism, vegetarianism, onivorism and seeing my health decline steadly, i got desperate enough to try other options, found out about this carnivore diet thing (different from keto, which i have experience with). So i tried a few days but not strict since i ate some fruits and some seeds BUT...

Initial results are promising, feeling MUCH better overall, the best thing i have tried for my health in years.

My mood got better, mental clarity, energy, way less pain/joint pain, teeth are stronger etc.

And i didn't even went full carnivore and also ate some dairy and whey protein (not good for me).

BUT, i probably will cycle with some fruit and green juices doing periods of each but not mixing it, i found that monomeals are better for me.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Recursoinominado

[M A J I]

2 hours ago, Recursoinominado said:

After veganism, raw foods, frugivorism, vegetarianism, onivorism and seeing my health decline steadly, i got desperate enough to try other options, found out about this carnivore diet thing (different from keto, which i have experience with). So i tried a few days but not strict since i ate some fruits and some seeds BUT...

Initial results are promising, feeling MUCH better overall, the best thing i have tried for my health in years.

My mood got better, mental clarity, energy, way less pain/joint pain, teeth are stronger etc.

And i didn't even went full carnivore and also ate some dairy and whey protein (not good for me).

BUT, i probably will cycle with some fruit and green juices doing periods of each but not mixing it, i found that monomeals are better for me.

Yes I agree with mono-meals is best. If you eat one type of fruit or vegetable or meat you will feel better than multiple types of any kind. Our bodies thrive when we (keep it simple). This is where you are at and its working for you based on your lifestyle and environment. I still wouldn't say the human body is designed for meat, it has simply adapted to it from many years of infusion and immersion of the animal-consciousness, so for many people, animal-products may still need to be consumed from time to time as far as the DNA sequence goes, for others it may be no-longer required that goes hand in hand with their life experience.

I have found lifestyle & environment plays a large role in what types of density of foods we require. For example when I am in the city at my mums place, its very dense energy, poor air, a lot of electronics, I need more nuts, seeds and fats, sometimes even potatoes or tofu or even eggs, to help ground my energy(this could also be a belief), but I notice when I am in the country or forest or mountains, I can far more easily life off fruit(where I feel best and most alive) and I actually eat much less because I am nourished by the energy of the forest/mountain, nature, sunlight, high quality air and cosmic rays ect...

This video very helpful for this subject similar to your experience you have shared.

He also speaks deeply into how our "programming and belief systems" directly effect how we process life and I have come to the same conclusions. The Importance of doing what "feels" right for you in each moment ? Namaste ~

Edited April 19, 2023 by M A J I

[Recursoinominado]

I am living in a very high vibe place surrounded by nature lol

My previous plans was to be eventually strict fugivore or something like that but that was my being dogmatic about what I thought would be good.

Lots of stage green here, low consumption of meat and animal products, to the point I feel weirdly judged buying and eating meat BUT that's definetly what my body needed.

The inner conflict is real. I don't want to contribute to animal suffering but I will not sacrifice my health for it, this is for sure.

Time to embrace my shadow.

[Schizophonia]

17 hours ago, zurew said:

@Schizophonia So TLDR: you have nothing tangible, other than a handful of testimonials.

Adversarial reversal, do YOU have tangible proof?
The primal/paleo diet (carnivore was a provocative misnomer, call such a diet what you will) is amazing to me and many others.
The more I eat like this, the better my cognition, the better my poo, the stronger I am in the gym etc etc.
And obviously the taste is much better than a vegan diet, while being really satisfying in terms of appetite.

Troll/provocation aside, I've shared and suggested checking out the story of other people on even stricter diets than me who don't have health issues including artherosclerosis (despite high LDL), while recalling that, here again, carnivore is a vague and provocative term to agree on a diet based on animal products.

And you ? What do you have apart from generally epidemiological studies.
For the 10th time, regardless of the quality of the studies and the fact that we can be interested in them, they are impersonal and manipulable.
You absolutely want a study?
giveaway: https://www.dovepress.com/total-meat-intake-is-associated-with-life-expectancy-a-cross-sectional-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-IJGM

17 hours ago, zurew said:

"Don't bother looking at the studies dude, just look for people that are agreeing with you on the subject, and that way you can be sure and confident that you are right (btw guys, I am not biased, and I am not ideogically driven, even though most of my posts only consist of bashing other diets, rather than actually making a strong case for why the carnivore diet is the best)" 

ditto + and yes I cover the vegan diet, both because it's the elephant in the room when we talk about a carnivorous diet and because I suffered from it

17 hours ago, zurew said:

No one said that anyone needs to obey anyone, and we are not really talking about one authority on a subject that you need to believe blindly (although, unironically, so far your case only consist of one person, who is undeniably biased on this topic). What a reasonable person would do, is to look for the overall body of evidence, what we have on a certain topic, and not jump to conclusions immediatelly and not making strong and confident claims about things that are not verified yet. 

I don't know exactly why I said that and I can't find the original message, it may have been deleted. I think it was a question of accusing me of having a marginal position. Yes I have a marginal position, you too in another context, so don't accuse me (you or anyone else) of that.

17 hours ago, zurew said:

Sorry, that im not convinced by you showing one person, who is clearly a marketer of this topic.

You lie, you are a liar.
I talked about myself, then I took the example of two people that many people know, and then I insisted on checking another example. Do you understand that I don't have to ctrl+c and crtl+v all that I can/have been able to see on this kind of diets?

17 hours ago, zurew said:

The title of this thread and your posts overall speaks volumes on what kind of epistemic process you have. You think that having a handful of testimonials is a strong enough evidence for you to completely change your diet and to even tell others that they should follow you. You seem to be very biased and unironically very ideologically driven (its blatantly obvious from your first post, where most of your posts only consis of bashing other diets rather than actually building a strong case for the carnivore diet.

 

Ok

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

I love fruits. Love the taste, low how healthy they are, and I feel good when my diet is rich in fibre.  Fruits are to me what butter is to you.

Yes, I too like fruit to a certain extent. There is no opposition between fruit and butter.

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

My gut can handle 100 grams of fibre per day without consequences.  

much better for you

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

And yes to your point, barley porridge on its own is a bit dull, but does that mean the food itself is automatically unhealthy?.....I don't really like this argument of "people need fruit with food otherwise, it tastes blend"

Yeah, I think it's pretty clear that there's an evolutionary reason why the palate likes certain things and doesn't. And "a bit boring" is an understatement, you know that as much as I do, Michael 

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Why not combine foods to make them more palatable if you can? What's wrong with that? Most people already suffer enough, have tremendous amounts of burdens, raising kids, paying bills in a double-digit inflation, doing shit jobs they hate, stressors and anxieties in their life, and can't make their food palatable without being guilted by freaks on the internet? Life comes in balance. Nothing good ever comes of extremes

That's like saying it's okay for people to drink their urine, because you can enjoy it by adding maple syrup to it. And again I don't want to force anyone to do anything, it's the complete opposite of my point.

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Because they are highly educated, highly privileged, white males living in the richest regions of the world, wealthy and EXTREMELY biased sample.

They are not the regular Joe or regular Jane with zero health knowledge who cannot just navigate all the pitfalls. 

I have seen the way people with low nutritional knowledge do keto or carnivore. They eat fucking salamis with mayonnaise and fried eggs and reject fruits and vegetables. They think they are doing what Paul is doing when he loads his steak with a pound of vegetables. They are not. Most people who attempt these diets end up with high LDL and high blood pressure. 

This is my main grievance that these clowns have complete disregard for how people misunderstand their advice, and all they hear is "red meat is good". Go on nutrition Twitter and actually look up the examples of young carnivores having their bypasses, colonic polyps found on colonoscopy in their early 40s. It is not worth it, the diet is too risky, there are too many unknown variables. 

True, but you can say that about any way you eat. It is for this exact reason that I do not have a diet and that I just eat/promote foods that are natural and that I like.

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

 

People do not differentiate between processed and unprocessed. They cannot tell what fats are saturated and which are not. They don't understand fibre, they don't understand the importance of microbiota.

Fiber doesn't mean much. There are a large number of different fibers, with different sizes and structures, soluble in water or not...

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

They remember the things that are most exciting - "vegans are wrong, and meat is good" and they go on a crusade (kinda like what you did above) with 2% of the big picture understanding, completely ignorant of the fact that their picture is missing 98% of the clarity. And when someone tries to educate them, someone with PhD let's say, they are dismissed as "epidemiology fanatics" - it is a freaking clownshow. 

I will answer whoever accused me of dunning kruger below, the accusation is basically the same

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

All carnivores have problems which is why they become carnivores in the first place.

No

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Do you think it is normal that people cannot digest fibre even thou humans have been eating high-fibre diets pretty much since the times of ancient Egypt and the Roman Empire, way before that even. 

Why should we eat like these? And especially :

-They weren't vegan and couldn't be vegan anyway.

-They didn't eat "kale with sweet potatoes and beans", if they ate fibrous things they were well prepared (long soaks, cooking, fermenting) and usually eaten with fat for taste and digestion. You have to see the bean-based recipes that date back to antiquity, these things were literally swimming in olive oil ah ah.

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

It's just that it is human nature to become a crusader and ideologist which is how this nonsense spreads. 

I'm not crusading against anyone, I don't care.
Worst case consider me a troll.

16 hours ago, Michael569 said:

To be honest, I would rather get SIBO than colorectal cancer if those were my two choices. 

It is not because you eat meat that you will have colorectal cancer, it is not because you eat a lot of fiber that you will have sibo.
Besides, I'm not saying that humans are big eaters of red meat, it seems pretty clear that humans evolved around the consumption of white meat from small mammals, fish and shellfish.
Ah and second lmao gift: https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(18)31176-0.pdf
It's on rats, so do what you want.

14 hours ago, Jannes said:

Just because you did something in the past doesn't mean you should do it in the future. 

"Should" according to what criteria?

14 hours ago, Jannes said:

Lol how are bred fruits, regular large amounts of honey, dairy, leafy vegetables yes but low fiber natural? I don't say it's wrong to eat that but it doesn't really fit into a primal diet imo. If you want to be really primal I would integrate roots, high-fiber leafy vegetables and fruits, insects..

"Paleo" includes all hominids before the mastery of agriculture pr homo sapiens
Just because Homo erectus ate beetles and tender roots doesn't mean it's an attractive and favorable diet for modern man.

As for fruit: https://deniseminger.com/2011/05/31/wild-and-ancient-fruit/
You can also watch any documentary on hunter-gatherer tribes and you will see that they consume fruits and honey, sometimes fatty fruits (coconuts, avocados, palm fruits...)

14 hours ago, Jannes said:

Keto people eat little fruit and carbs in general to stay in ketosis. 

yes

14 hours ago, Jannes said:

Do you have a scientific answer why a "meat heavy paleo diet" is good? Because how you would apply it it wouldn't bring you in ketosis and so I wonder where the big difference in how you feel comes from..?

The whole point of my topic is to troll a little by making a statement based on very basic things, and by extension showing that it works on various people. We could fight over a "more perched" debate on a certain number of studies, but that would be long and uninteresting.

If you want my opinion on such and such a study I can tell you, possibly.

13 hours ago, undeather said:

All right 

[Schizophonia]

11 hours ago, M A J I said:

I personally have tried every diet known to man, nothing makes me feel healthier and more energized, alive, clear, conscious, than predominantly (organic) fruit-based. Anything close to the "fasting state" is the ideal state of consciousness. When I fast (unless you have mucus/toxins) which 99.9% of people do, you will feel a energy unlike anything else food can ever do for you, besides some extra energy and stimulation, fruit is closest thing.

I've been on the mastery and perfection of the human body/mind path for 10 + years, It is quite clear too me now, not only makes sense to my consciousness/intelligence, it is evident in my direct experience itself.

Now most people would probably feel like shit for the first few days or weeks, if they only eat fruit and fast because the decades of poisons and toxins in ones body from the wrong foods and more especially.. wrong environment, extremely polluted air and artificial (radiated) atmosphere, opposite from the mountainous/tropical regions that would be ideal for the human being. And so usually what happens when you do this, is a very rapid release, cleansing and flushing of these toxins, parasites, old-waste matter ect... This usually can take several months to several years to complete, depending on how you do it.

So its a (transition) and you must (honour) where you are at each and every moment, because food is habitual, no different than drugs, so we must slowly wean off the denser vibratory foods, and consume less and less as we incorporate more and more lighter and lesser foods.

Then Ideal would be to not eat at all, The Air is primary, water and everything else is secondary, but that's an entirely different conversation on its own and our environments are too polluted and artificial for that now, most of them at least.

Many people fail because they try to do everything overnight, I personally was one of the few people who could do it, as it made total sense to me that we are more herbivore/frugivore by natural design, but overtime I did experiment and go back and forth to give all types of food/diets a chance.

And there are some who can do it just like that and feel amazing straight and never go back. I experienced this back in 2010 and I was able to transmute effectively because I was already in a very high vibratory state because of my meditations and focus on love and ascension, but most will have to deal with the (shit/shadows) they put into their bodies all their lives before they can get to the light, it is only natural process, which I discovered later on in my experiments and life-experience. There is really no escaping the dark, one way or another.

Fruit & Fasting clears things up from the inside out so (things will be brought up to the surface) whether it be physical, emotional, mental, spiritual ect... this is why people prefer carnivore, or denser foods, its more comforting and helps numb the pain and emotions and not have to deal with them as intensely, and this is why many vegans today who make the switch too rapidly for their consciousness, experience something like trauma/ego backlash, health issues ect.. and revert back to animal products as they did not know or were properly educated for the (transitionary process) which again can take years, and you must honour that and be respectful and patient with your body that you unconsciously abused all your life with wrong and fake foods, especially processed/supermarket foods.

Those junk foods are full of chemicals and way worse than meat alone, our body actually thrives in simplicity and closer to nature. This is why carnivore only, or potatoes only, or fruit only, or type type of food works very well, because it gives the body a break. The body is not designed to process 150 different flavors, herbs and spices as you would say a typical Indian curry, the body will actually process a simple steak much better, in most cases.

We evolved gathering fruit and stumbling across a tree and consuming that until it was done, and later in the darker ages, as consciousness dropped, meat and hunting an animals came around, but it was always (simple) few foods at most a day. Today people have a toxic amount of variety and consume so many different foods a day and no wonder why their bodies and minds and emotions are a mess and have all types of allergies and diseases. The further from nature the food is, the more chaos and disruption you put into the body and the more challenging it will become to completely transmute it.

Another great book is: Mucusless Diet Healing System by Professor Arnold Ehret

This is another good read https://flowhealingarts.org/news/2016/8/23/flow-cleansing-strategies

Hope this helps

 

I will take the time to respond to your messages later.

[Jannes]

8 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

"Should" according to what criteria?

It's the argument that paleo people use to argument for their diet. They say it's what we did in the past and therefore we should (or it's "good") if we do it now. It could be however that an "unnatural" diet is actually way healthier. That's why I said "Just because you did something in the past doesn't mean you should do it in the future." We have to actually look what's best for us now and that doesn't have to be the same as what we had to do in Stone Age to survive.

8 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

"Paleo" includes all hominids before the mastery of agriculture pr homo sapiens
Just because Homo erectus ate beetles and tender roots doesn't mean it's an attractive and favorable diet for modern man.

As for fruit: https://deniseminger.com/2011/05/31/wild-and-ancient-fruit/
You can also watch any documentary on hunter-gatherer tribes and you will see that they consume fruits and honey, sometimes fatty fruits (coconuts, avocados, palm fruits...)

Oh interesting didn't know that about fruits and stuff. Although with the honey, the honey that the tribe hunter-gatherer eat is more bee than honey actually. 

8 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

The whole point of my topic is to troll a little by making a statement based on very basic things, and by extension showing that it works on various people. We could fight over a "more perched" debate on a certain number of studies, but that would be long and uninteresting.

Yeah easy catchphrases like natural diet are way more moving than rational argumentations.  

Our rational mind seems to be easily overruled by more primitive parts of our brain. I guess you wanted to put this understanding to the show.

8 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

If you want my opinion on such and such a study I can tell you, possibly.

idc honestly I just got triggered by the title lol. 

[M A J I]

Reading through there is a a lot of misinformation here on these forum chats. I know many people who have been plant based without any supplements who are thriving and healthy for many years. 10+ years here.

I also know the same for those who are choosing the omnivore path, and a few that are more carnivore path. Nutrition is very poorly understood as is our bodies intelligence, remember we are created out of infinite intelligence.

Here is a nice conversation with a person who is experimenting with carnivore diet and a person who is fruitarian. 

How discussions should be. Gotta find what works best for you because arguing never gets anywhere.
 

Edited April 20, 2023 by M A J I

[Schizophonia]

12 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Pandas, like any bear, are omnivores, means they can consume either only plants or only meat their entire life and they will be healthy.

Don't pretend not to understand, pansa is mainly herbivorous.  There are actually quite a few purely herbivorous or carnivorous animals, most of the time these are abuses of language.

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We might consume meat once in a while and to be fine, but we can't be healthy by eating meat only, while we can be healthy by eating only plants.

No, without supplement you will die, or in any case be in very bad health.

There is no vegan civilization, strictly none outside the imagination of some.

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We forced into cooking meat in order to survive. Especially in cold areas with long winters, when there are no plants available for long periods of time. 
 

Lol.  You just spit a racist myth on me that Europeans are mammoth-eating hunter-gatherer warriors and non-white/Europeans are strutting around in the rainforest eating coconuts and plantains.

That's not how it works and the majority of tropical civilizations have based their diet largely on animal products.

Same for dairy products.
 

Gift : https://www.sci.news/archaeology/indus-civilization-people-diet-09136.html

I recorded it recently because I found it interesting

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Source?

It literally took me 5 seconds to find it on google, despite being an insomniac and terribly lazy to do research.

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But I like it since my childhood and many humans like it. Are they doing wrong that they like fruits and vegetables?

For the 10th time carnivores is a misnomer for "primal".  And I'm not on a diet outside of instinct.  Fruits are good to some extent, vegetables are not, people hide the taste of vegetables with spices, salts, fats etc, especially if they are very bitter/fibrous.

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I'm sorry it affected you that way. What food caused you this? Legumes?

yes

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I know that carnivore diet creates more body odor, means more smelly excretions.

Idk

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And vegan diet improves body odor, which makes people with plant based diet more attractive sexually because they smell better.

Ditto, do you have an epidemiological study on the smell of carnivores and their sexual attractiveness?  lol.

What I eat has never changed my body odor, maybe some people starve themselves too much fat or something and produce too much lactic acid.

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Nuts are full of it, avocado too, some of green leaves like lettuce has omega 3 too

No, these foods don't contain "a lot of omega 3", the only seeds that contain a lot of O3 are marginal (chia, flax, hemp...) and they are Omega 3 ALA, you have to consume a lot to convert enough to  EPA/DHA.  I even saw a video of a vegan dr (I forget what his name is, he was on What Thé Health and seems to be North African or mixed race) admitted that many of his patients were  deficient.

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and many kinds of algae which are very rich in omega 3. 

lol, that's like saying calcium deficiency wasn't a problem because you can suck on a limestone brick

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I'm very sorry to ruin your illusion, but it's too easy to debunk you.

All right

Edited April 20, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

12 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Vitamin B12 is produced by bacteria found in the soil, not by animals or plants.

Animals do not get vitamin b12 by eating plants.  Their intestinal flora metabolizes the cobalt in the tons of vegetables they consume into enough b12.  Even if you were right you can't eat so many plants anyway, it would be deadly.  You also can't get enough b12 by drinking stagnant water or some bullshit.  In fact the only people coming out with such dangerous ideas are ideologically mentally ill and I hope you understand that these guys are marginal and ideologically mentally ill.  Neal Barnard (I think he's the one who said that in what the health) would be easily condemned in France for saying things like that.  I don't know how it works in other countries in Europe but here I am probably similar.

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And eating meat doesn't guarantee that you wouldn't have vitamin B12 deficiency. It depends whther the animal you eat consumed enough B12 or not.

If even eating a certain amount of animal products is insufficient how can you claim to have enough b12 by drinking stagnant water or eating grass lol.  Otherwise yes, depends on the cooking method, the part of the animal etc.

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Vegan sources for B12 can be mushrooms, algae, cereals.

"suck the pebbles"

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Beans, chickpeas, lentils, tofu, walnuts, cashew nuts, chia seeds, ground linseed, hemp seeds, pumpkin seeds, wholemeal bread, quinoa. 

 

Shiitake mushrooms, soy beans, wheat germs, cruciferous vegetables, almonds, quinoa, red potatoes. They are all have enough to be healthy. Too much choline is unhealthy.

At least we travel with veganism lol

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Cereals and legumes.

 

Lentils, spinach, chickpea, tofu, cashews,  bean,potatoes, kale.

So why did my physical performance increase by quitting veganism?  Why do all vegan athletes consume a significant amount of protein from rice, peas etc?  Have you ever tried to eat a ton of beans every day?

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There is protein in any food, whether it's a plant or not, we don't need a lot protein and protein deficiency is not common.

It is not because it is difficult to be lacking in something that it is not problematic to have little.  Where are the low protein athletes?  There is good where graham from but his teeth are rotten, he is skinny and nothing says he is not under trt.  The majority of frugivores are physically wasteful, and even starch eaters often have to take supplements.

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I don't understand, is he skinny or fat?

Both, it looks like a bottle of orangina

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Isn't it exactly what you are doing here on this thread?

I play

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You are started with justifying your choice to eat meat.

No, I don't have to justify anything to anyone.  And eating meat is not a choice, it's so obvious.

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Can't you just eat your meat quietly without opening a thread full of excuses?

You project yourself, the only liberal in the tertiary sector who feels guilty about eating meat is you.  I'm just playing, starting debates is a game, it's literally the purpose of life.  If it bothers you, you don't have to post, are you aware of that?

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In my childhood, my family wanted me to eat meat and they tried to push it to my throat. This is the story of so many vegan and vegetarian people. Society puts so much pressure to eat meat. Given this situation, it means that people who don't eat meat really don't want to eat meat. 

Different people have a different understanding of "nice". 

 

Obviously, the more you annoy someone on a subject the more you push them into reverse neurosis.  It is for this precise reason that I promote a diet based on the senses and instinct.

 

11 hours ago, Jannes said:

It's the argument that paleo people use to argument for their diet. They say it's what we did in the past and therefore we should (or it's "good") if we do it now. It could be however that an "unnatural" diet is actually way healthier. That's why I said "Just because you did something in the past doesn't mean you should do it in the future." We have to actually look what's best for us now and that doesn't have to be the same as what we had to do in Stone Age to survive.

The problem is not to do or not to do what you have done in the past, the problem is that you are adapted to it whether you want to or not.  I'm no archaeologist, I can try to talk about that but my point is that a vegan diet just doesn't taste good unless it cheats, causes gas issues etc.

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Oh interesting didn't know that about fruits and stuff. Although with the honey, the honey that the tribe hunter-gatherer eat is more bee than honey actually. 
 

Extra proteins lol

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Yeah easy catchphrases like natural diet are way more moving than rational argumentations.  
 

One day, I will do a pro primal diet file, something very serious.

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Our rational mind seems to be easily overruled by more primitive parts of our brain. I guess you wanted to put this understanding to the show.

idc honestly I just got triggered by the title lol. 

.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Michael569]

15 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Vegan sources for B12 can be mushrooms, algae, cereals.

I would be careful with this. If you depend on those without supplements you will run into critical deficiencies and demyelination of your central nervous system. As a vegan, you MUST supplement B12 if you want to prevent irreversible neurological damage. 

Once a year you should also run either methylmalonic acid test or holo transcomabalamin test as serum B12 is inreliable. If you are 100% vegan, these may save you from lots of issues. 

The reason you have no problems is that you probably have good hepatic stores but if you don't supplement, you're gonna run out. 

15 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Algae. And it's better than fish. 

Algae are only a source of DHA, fish are a source of both EPA and DHA. They are not better or worse, they are the same gram for gram of DHA but they are less complete you could say where full Omega 3 profile is concerned. Combined with something like flax oil you should probably get all you need. 

3 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

Why do all vegan athletes consume a significant amount of protein from rice, peas etc?  

that's an unfair argument against veganism. You would have to assume that omivores don't use those where in fact probably like 60% of gym goers take some form of protein isolate. Be objective  In fact I would go as far as to say if you put 100 vegan and 100 omnivore athletes next to eachother, omnivores would be loading up on significantly more additional protein than vegans (but I have no data to back this up, just a speculation on my end) 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Michael569