Why isn’t anyone in the Russian government able to stop Putin?

[Hardkill]

13 minutes ago, FourCrossedWands said:

Most western people don't understand Russians. They live in a different reality. They have been "brainwashed" since young age and told that their motherland is in great danger. They believe that western countries are planning destruction of Russia and that their number one priority is to defend their country and nationality. It is a truth to some degree because Russia has been demanding no new counties entering NATO and nobody gave a shit about it. So now we have a war...

I thought that most Russian citizens don't like the war because of how much it is destroying their financial lives and the lives of many family members and relatives of theirs who live in Ukraine.

[Leo Gura]

Because Putin defends Russian sovereignty, which is his job. Americans don't understand this basic point. Putin's job is not to be nice to children, his job is to protect the sovereignty of 100+ million people and a culture so that children can be born Russian rather than American bitches. When you understand this, it all makes perfect sense.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Hardkill]

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because Putin defends Russian sovereignty, which is his job. Americans don't understand this basic point. Putin's job is not to be nice to children, his job is to protect the sovereignty of 100+ million people and a culture so that children can be born Russian rather than American bitches. When you understand this, it all makes perfect sense.

But aren't the other political elites worried that Putin has become a tyrant? Why don't the courts in Russia and the Russian Federal Power make it so that there is a separation of powers throughout the entire government?

I know that Putin has only paid lip service to his people about democracy and freedom of speech in his country, but why doesn't he at least have enough honor and dignity to keep his word about democracy and freedom of the speech in Russia?

Besides, Putin has already been failing miserably with this war in many dimensions for well over a year now. If the Kremlin let's this keep going on, then Russia will become a dying dump with 100+ million of good Russian people suffering through a profound economic depression that will probably be worse than the Great Depression was. By the end of this war virtually no Russian citizen will have any real sovereignty anymore.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Hardkill

[Blackhawk]

18 minutes ago, FourCrossedWands said:

Most western people don't understand Russians. They live in a different reality. They have been "brainwashed" since young age and told that their motherland is in great danger. They believe that western countries are planning destruction of Russia and that their number one priority is to defend their country and nationality. It is a truth to some degree because Russia has been demanding no new counties entering NATO and nobody gave a shit about it. So now we have a war...

Here we go again...

No it's not true to some degree.

1. Before Russia raped Ukraine, Ukraine wasn't going to join Nato.

2. After Russia raped Ukraine, then Sweden and Finland decided to join Nato for their protection from Russia. Notice how countries wants to join Nato in a defensive move against Russian aggression.

[FourCrossedWands]

The biggest problem is there are two hyper-nationalist parties fighting against each other. This means the war will last for a very long time. It is also a big paradox because they both starter as one nation called Kievan Rus.

[Blackhawk]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because Putin defends Russian sovereignty, which is his job. Americans don't understand this basic point. Putin's job is not to be nice to children, his job is to protect the sovereignty of 100+ million people and a culture so that children can be born Russian rather than American bitches. When you understand this, it all makes perfect sense.

How is he defending Russian sovereignty? By invading other countries? Or what

[FourCrossedWands]

Just now, Blackhawk said:

How is he defending Russian sovereignty? By invading other countries? Or what

Imagine if the United States had a defensive pact against them right on their borders. Everyone would surely be happy about that.

[Blackhawk]

11 minutes ago, FourCrossedWands said:

Imagine if the United States had a defensive pact against them right on their borders. Everyone would surely be happy about that.

If they are peaceful, (not a offensive threat to US or its friends. And also if they treat their own citizens well), then yes US wouldn't mind that. US is for freedom and sovereignty. That's why US is attractive and succesful. Countries seek themselves to US.

It's like the difference between rape and sex with consent. Huge difference.

Russia rapes, and with US it's sex with consent. A happy relationship.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Blackhawk

[FourCrossedWands]

6 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

If they are peaceful, (not a offensive threat to US), then yes US wouldn't mind that. 

It's just very complicated, similar to the German situation right before the WW2.

Edited April 17, 2023 by FourCrossedWands

[Hardkill]

6 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

If they are peaceful, (not a offensive threat to US), then yes US wouldn't mind that. US is for freedom and sovereignty. That's why US is attractive and succesful. Countries seek themselves to US.

It's like the difference between rape and sex with consent. Huge difference.

Russia rapes, and with US it's sex with consent. A happy relationship.

I agree with that.

[Danioover9000]

@Hardkill

1 hour ago, Hardkill said:

But aren't the other political elites worried that Putin has become a tyrant? Why don't the courts in Russia and the Russian Federal Power make it so that there is a separation of powers throughout the entire government?

I know that Putin has only paid lip service to his people about democracy and freedom of speech in his country, but why doesn't he at least have enough honor and dignity to keep his word about democracy and freedom of the speech in Russia?

Besides, Putin has already been failing miserably with this war in many dimensions for well over a year now. If the Kremlin let's this keep going on, then Russia will become a dying dump with 100+ million of good Russian people suffering through a profound economic depression that will probably be worse than the Great Depression was. By the end of this war virtually no Russian citizen will have any real sovereignty anymore.

   Notice how all that you've written is from either western American centric indoctrination, or other western country indoctrination. Notice that, you are in an aquarium, judging, confused, and shocked at what the sharks are doing from the other side, but it's okay when you eat inside your little worldview aquarium. From that perspective it doesn't make sense what Putin or Russia is doing, and vice versa! From Russia's and Putin's and Kremlin's perspective you Americans are overpowered whiny children, weak people that don't deserve to be number one country in the world, and now Ukraine next door, that has several geopolitical and geographical strategic values for Russia is getting converted by this weak boy ideology, how does that make you feel? That's when you'll appreciate how difficult this is going to be to resolve peacefully.

[actuallyenlightened]

1 hour ago, Blackhawk said:

How is he defending Russian sovereignty? By invading other countries? Or what

If we're talking about sovereignty, I'd say that a lot of Russians believe that the Soviet Union is just another name for Russia and that they are regaining sovereignty of what they think belongs to them. Say, Texas became independent from the US after some depression and got international recognition, I'm not sure whether most Americans wouldn't want the same thing 30 years later. Of course, Texas doesn't have the same history / identity as Ukraine.

By brainwashing and relocating Ukrainian children to non-Slavic regions (which is a war crime), they could dilute the local population (i.e. Chechnya, Tuva, etc), ultimately reducing the risk of secession in these regions - especially considering the low birthrate among ethnic Russians. It's important to remember that Russia is a highly centralized ethnostate that has exploited it's resource-rich peripheral regions for centuries and kept them poor.

From a sovereignty/strategic standpoint it checks out - but I still hope they loose considering all of the suffering caused.

[Hardkill]

46 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Hardkill

   Notice how all that you've written is from either western American centric indoctrination, or other western country indoctrination. Notice that, you are in an aquarium, judging, confused, and shocked at what the sharks are doing from the other side, but it's okay when you eat inside your little worldview aquarium. From that perspective it doesn't make sense what Putin or Russia is doing, and vice versa! From Russia's and Putin's and Kremlin's perspective you Americans are overpowered whiny children, weak people that don't deserve to be number one country in the world, and now Ukraine next door, that has several geopolitical and geographical strategic values for Russia is getting converted by this weak boy ideology, how does that make you feel? That's when you'll appreciate how difficult this is going to be to resolve peacefully.

Weak?! Ha! Russia now doesn't even a chance to take on the US, let alone all of NATO!

Russia has completely humiliated itself by struggling to win this war. This was supposed to be a piece of cake for them. Instead, his own plan completely backfired on him and his people. After this war ends, Russia's military will by far become even weaker than China's by far and its economy will become so weak that it might die in the foreseeable future.

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

How is he defending Russian sovereignty? By invading other countries? Or what

Very simply by keeping NATO off his front porch. Don't be so naive.

Putin has been very clear about his motives and concerns. It's not like this appeared out of thin air.

Putin obviously considers Western expansion into Eastern Europe a threat to Russian sovereignty.

A country's sovereignty is not just its own boarder.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Joel3102]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Very simply by keeping NATO off his front porch. Don't be so naive.

Putin has been very clear about his motives and concerns. It's not like this appeared out of thin air.

Putin obviously considers Western expansion into Eastern Europe a threat to Russian sovereignty.

A country's sovereignty is not just its own boarder.

I think it’s pretty clear Russia would be fucking with its neighbours with or without NATO expansion. NATO is just an excuse.

2014 invasion of Crimea happened after his puppet leader in Ukraine was democratically ousted, nothing to do with NATO.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Joel3102 said:

2014 invasion of Crimea happened after his puppet leader in Ukraine was democratically ousted, nothing to do with NATO.

All to do with the West encroaching onto Putin's front porch.

[WeCome1]

On 4/17/2023 at 3:19 AM, Hardkill said:

why doesn’t the Russian legislative branch or the Russian court system or Putin’s inner circle (the siloviki) put a stop to his madness?

It's really hard to grasp the full scope of this issue if you haven't grown up in the Soviet or Post-Soviet country; even the experts of top-tier western press struggle with this - it is obvious that they simply lack the cultural/mentality context. They also lack nuance in understanding the real structure and distribution of power in Russia; and how the Soviet legacy determined what we see today; "siloviki and oligarkhs calling the shots" is a bit of a naive view. I suppose, that this holds true for any country: I'm sure you can think of many examples where some issue from your own country is naively misrepresented in foreign press/analytics due to the lack of context.

That said, we do have a guy who is in the position to answer our question exhaustively (great guy btw, highly recommend him on the topics of Russian economics and politics). The answer is in Russian, and there are no English captions, but I'll translate the main talking points:

Challenge #1 - Legitimacy: if someone were to to attempt to take power, they would have a very hard time convincing anybody in Russian government/power structures to obey. The main de-facto power structure that determines foreign and domestic politics presently is the Security Council of Russia - and it is barely even constitutional; and - needless to say - completely under Putin's control; the current legislation is crippled beyond repair in terms of checks and balances. Moreover, throughout the years, Putin meticulously weeded out anybody in the government with any semblance of free will; those that are left today are either completely loyal, or politically impotent, or, in most cases, both. The simple fact is that there is currently no person, group or structure that commands enough legitimacy to attempt a coup; and even if there were - most lower-level government and military officials would be too doubtful and afraid to take their side; that's just a cultural/mentality thing that goes waaaay back.

Challenge #2 - The power structures (siloviki) are unprecedentedly divided. There is the, more or less, eternal conflict and power struggle between FSB (ФСБ - FSS - Federal Security Service) and the military; and within the military itself, there is also a conflict brewing between the Ministry of Defense and the GenShtab (Генштаб, Генеральный Штаб - General Staff of the Armed Forces); it is basically extremely unlikely that any of them will unite against Putin. Then there is the RosGvardiya (National Guard), which is separate from all of the above, has about 300,000 armed men, and is under the command of general Zolotov, who is Putin's lifelong guard/buddy, is extremely dumb and fiercely loyal. And the cherry on top is this little thing that is rarely mentioned in political commentary outside Russia called FSO (ФСО - Федеральная Служба Охраны - Federal Protective Service) a.k.a. Putin's personal 50,000-men army - extremely secret, extremely loyal, well-paid and motivated, highly influential and placed above all existing laws, commanding virtually unlimited funding and resources, and practically autonomous. It's sole purpose is precisely to protect the president: you want to get to Putin - you have to go through them; and good luck with that. Every piece of analytics on the topic of coup that does not mention the FSO commander general Kochnev can be disregarded. A small side-note: when you take power from Putin, one of the first things you want to do is to cut his communications; guess what - FSO is in charge of all Putin's communication infrastructure, not the army or FSB.

Challenge #3 - Everyone fears surveillance. Mother Russia is an actual panopticon: everyone who amounts to anything in terms of power or influence is under total, constant surveillance; and everyone slightly below them in rank has to operate under the assumption that they also are. Putin is former FSB and has always been a total paranoic - so he made a point about building that system right. Two people seriously discussing a coup is extremely risky; the idea of a group of actually powerful people discussing that without Putin being informed within an hour - is absurd; and you can imagine the consequences - so nobody pushes their luck.

Challenge #4 - Who would take up such responsibility? It was already mentioned that the current government is devoid of people with initiative, leadership capabilities and any decent level of competence, really. The video was recorded a year ago, and, since then, everyone who is not a parasitic opportunist is either already in jail, or left the country. On the other hand, politically and economically speaking, Russia is currently neck-deep in shit, and this crisis is already going to last at least a generation; and we can't really predict how much worse it will get, one of the important reasons for that being that Russian government is highly compartmentalized, meaning that each branch does not know much about what's going on in the others - and it was designed in this way deliberately. There is nobody in the government/power structures today who would be capable to manage this crisis. Also, anybody who overthrows Putin will have to restore diplomatic relations with the civilized world, which will, among other things, entail putting war criminals through fair trial. Putin made everyone currently in power his co-conspirators at the Security Council's meeting on February 21, 2022 when they unanimously approved the declaration of war.

Edited April 18, 2023 by WeCome1

[Blackhawk]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Very simply by keeping NATO off his front porch. Don't be so naive.

Putin has been very clear about his motives and concerns. It's not like this appeared out of thin air.

Putin obviously considers Western expansion into Eastern Europe a threat to Russian sovereignty.

A country's sovereignty is not just its own boarder.

1. Even if Russia would be completely surrounded by Nato, it wouldn't threat Russia's sovereignty. It's a threat only to Russia's imperialistic aggressive offensive expansion.

2. The war in eastern Ukraine before 24 February 2022 already made it impossible for Ukraine to join Nato. So a full scale invasion wasn't necessary to prevent Ukraine from joining Nato.

56 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

All to do with the West encroaching onto Putin's front porch.

It's Ukraine which seeks west. And as a sovereign country it has the right to do that.

Sad to see that you are buying the Russian propaganda.

https://www.iir.cz/lies-provocations-or-myths-pretexts-nato-and-the-ukraine-crisis

Edited April 18, 2023 by Blackhawk

[Blackhawk]

[Leo Gura]

32 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

Sad to see that you are buying the Russian propaganda.

It's not propaganda, it's Putin's agenda. You don't have to agree with it, but you should be unbiased enough to understand it.

You make the same mistake as the Americans, which is not taking Putin seriously when he tells you his boundaries. You are arrogant enough to think that your idea of what the boundaries ought to be, are correct. Decades of this kind of thinking is what created this war.

Stop playing moralistic games. This is serious geo-politics. If you want to avoid war you don't moralize to people, you listen to their boundaries.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Leo Gura