Why do we Shame?

[Zion]

Why do we shame ourselves?

Why do we shame others?

What is shame?

What do we gain by shaming something? Societal Acceptance? False self acceptance?

Why is shame valuable? Why is shame important?

When does shame become unhealthy/toxic? Is shame always unhealthy? How do you determine whether the shame is healthy or not?

Is shame necessary?

If shame can be healthy, what are some positive examples/outcomes as a result of shame?

What is your experience with shame?

[Moksha]

As someone raised in a fundamentalist religion, you could say my mind was immersed in the river of shame. If only they had stopped at physical baptism, I might have suffered less, then again the shame became the key that set me free.

Thank you, brothers and sisters, for the shame ?

[Osaid]

Quote

Why do we shame ourselves?

To change yourself.

2 hours ago, Zion said:

Why do we shame others?

To change other people.

2 hours ago, Zion said:

What is shame?

Resisting what you are.

2 hours ago, Zion said:

What do we gain by shaming something?

It creates motivation to change how reality is.

2 hours ago, Zion said:

Why is shame valuable? Why is shame important?

It indicates a discord in how your psychology is interfacing with reality. A contradiction somewhere that can be inspected if you're introspective enough. And then from there you can learn a lot about yourself.

2 hours ago, Zion said:

Is shame always unhealthy?

It's not necessary. It can be transcended and the same results can be achieved without it. But some people need it for where they are at.

2 hours ago, Zion said:

Is shame necessary?

Relatively speaking, no.

2 hours ago, Zion said:

What is your experience with shame?

I've rarely felt it because I always intuitively understood that I was just trying to do the best I could from my current state of consciousness, and that any shame would only be created through a myopic perspective of myself.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Osaid

[DreamScape]

groupthink and conformity, also so we can feel sensitivity and love within coldness and closeness

[gettoefl]

shame is because (almost) everyone leads a double life and doesn't want another to see our hypocrisy and call us out on it

we feel shame since we are hiding our lived reality

we fear shame when our lived reality is made public in any way

we don't live in wholeness and authenticity and integrity and so shame is a constant companion standing ready to pull down our house of cards

what is the antidote?

drip with confidence about every aspect of yourself and be articulate in selling that version of yourself to the world

delight in being an outlier in a world of people pleasers and approval seekers

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

delight in being an outlier in a world of people pleasers and approval seekers

Yes, but then lose even the outlier identity. Delight in realizing that the essence of you and the people pleasers is the same. The appearance of higher (hubris) and lower (shame) resolves into absolute love.

[Leo Gura]

Without shame people would be out on the streets raping children.

[Zion]

@Leo Gura 

From this perspective, shame is reliant on fear. The moment the fear of that which is seen to be shameful is transcended, is the moment your shame subsides. So the better question to ask is; "What do you fear & why do you fear it?"

[Salvijus]

1. The first consiquence of the illusion of seperation is fear. 
2. When we feel seperate we feel we can die. And outside world begins to seem threatening to our survival 
3. We become defensive.
4. Defensivness can take various forms. We can attack others physically or mentally to protect ourselves.
5. Mental attacks are judgement, blame, shaming others etc. 
6. For example when you're in court you blame everything on others to save your ass.
7. And then guilt follows naturally somehow. (Not sure i fully understand the guilt of it all)

So shame would be either a form of an attack or a form of guilt depending on a context

Edited April 18, 2023 by Salvijus

[gettoefl]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Without shame people would be out on the streets raping children.

shame is useful for anyone unconscious (ie controlled by mind) since it holds one in check from running amok

on the other hand if you wake up you can go beyond it and be comfortable sharing your totality warts wounds and all

[gettoefl]

1 hour ago, Zion said:

@Leo Gura 

From this perspective, shame is reliant on fear. The moment the fear of that which is seen to be shameful is transcended, is the moment your shame subsides. So the better question to ask is; "What do you fear & why do you fear it?"

nobody wants others to label them a psychopath, an addict, a monster

[Leo Gura]

And without fear you'd be dead.

[StarStruck]

Shame is self consciousness. 

[Zion]

@Leo Gura So why pursue a life of divine intervention if you are always stagnant in some level of fear, given the fact that we remain human in some form or another? To prove to yourself that you can escape it? To use this perspective to accept the inherent fear? What then? Why live as a human at all? For the sake of living? Logistically; I suppose it's better than living in absolute comfort, as clearly that doesn't give way to a fulfilling life. Clearly I'm missing something from a lack of experience, though at times it can look alarmingly bleak from an outside perspective. That or this is not entirely true in its absoluteness.

Either way, I understand that to give something a point at all is subjective & perspectival, so I will find what is true to me. 

Great follow up questions to shame's reasoning in fear: 

- What makes one fear something, as to feel the need/want to shame it?

- Is all fear encompassed by shame? If not, then what makes those otherwise fears different from the shame-encompassed ones?

- Is shame one of the mind's clever excuses to justify a fear?

- What must a fear have to create shame?

- What is shame's opposite?

[Majed]

@Leo Gura do you think it is possible for adults to have sex with children consensually ? 

 

[gettoefl]

2 hours ago, Zion said:

@Leo Gura So why pursue a life of divine intervention if you are always stagnant in some level of fear, given the fact that we remain human in some form or another? To prove to yourself that you can escape it? To use this perspective to accept the inherent fear? What then? Why live as a human at all? For the sake of living? Logistically; I suppose it's better than living in absolute comfort, as clearly that doesn't give way to a fulfilling life. Clearly I'm missing something from a lack of experience, though at times it can look alarmingly bleak from an outside perspective. That or this is not entirely true in its absoluteness.

Either way, I understand that to give something a point at all is subjective & perspectival, so I will find what is true to me. 

Great follow up questions to shame's reasoning in fear: 

- What makes one fear something, as to feel the need/want to shame it?

- Is all fear encompassed by shame? If not, then what makes those otherwise fears different from the shame-encompassed ones?

- Is shame one of the mind's clever excuses to justify a fear?

- What must a fear have to create shame?

- What is shame's opposite?

shame is fearing that they will know the real you

the antidote is knowing yourself and your quirks and loving your good and your bad and not giving any fucks that others know

[Moksha]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

And without fear you'd be dead.

Also true for desire. But the attachment to fear and desire necessary to continue dreaming is far more tenuous that most people realize.