The Challenge of Gender-Neutral Language in Portuguese

[Espaim]

As a psychology undergraduate living in Brazil, I've been witnessing numerous debates about pronouns and gender in Portuguese. This issue is distinct from English because our language has only two genders, which are applied to most nouns and adjectives. Typically, the masculine gender is considered the default. For instance, the words "gato" (masculine) and "gata" (feminine) are used for "cat."

Recently, many stage green academics (teachers and students) have been advocating for the use of gender-neutral language. In Portuguese, this would mean using "gate" instead of "gato" or "gata" to avoid gender-specific nouns. However, our language has yet to adopt such linguistic flexibility, making it challenging to write in a gender-neutral way. While I appreciate the idea of inclusion, Brazil has a predominantly Spiral Dynamics Blue value-dominant population, with only some cities, such as mine, leaning toward Orange and Green values.

As a result, this change has started to gain traction, but I'm unsure of where I stand on the matter. I would like to hear perspectives from those who are not directly involved in the situation.

Thanks!

[Sucuk Ekmek]

Regardless of S.D. stages who is benefiting or benefiting the most from this phenomenon? This would be my first perspective.

[Danioover9000]

@Espaim

23 hours ago, Espaim said:

As a psychology undergraduate living in Brazil, I've been witnessing numerous debates about pronouns and gender in Portuguese. This issue is distinct from English because our language has only two genders, which are applied to most nouns and adjectives. Typically, the masculine gender is considered the default. For instance, the words "gato" (masculine) and "gata" (feminine) are used for "cat."

Recently, many stage green academics (teachers and students) have been advocating for the use of gender-neutral language. In Portuguese, this would mean using "gate" instead of "gato" or "gata" to avoid gender-specific nouns. However, our language has yet to adopt such linguistic flexibility, making it challenging to write in a gender-neutral way. While I appreciate the idea of inclusion, Brazil has a predominantly Spiral Dynamics Blue value-dominant population, with only some cities, such as mine, leaning toward Orange and Green values.

As a result, this change has started to gain traction, but I'm unsure of where I stand on the matter. I would like to hear perspectives from those who are not directly involved in the situation.

Thanks!

   Yes, it's that challenging. Based on SD stages of development, cognitive and moral development, personality types and traits and psychography, ego development, states of consciousness, life experiences and other lines of development in other life domains, ideological indoctrination from upbringing and culture, history, economy, political landscape, and other developmental factors of society, that a group can't simply apply stage green values and methods on a collective scale without push back and ego backlash.

   Look at this video for example, these two are conservative comedians, and this is their reaction to when a white teacher is teaching about white privilege. Just teaching white privilege:

   So, hopefully anyone here can imagine how difficult it'll be trying to teach little kids about gender, let alone privilege. This is about the average reaction, minus the dark humor and stuff. And conservatives make up half to more than half the world!

[Espaim]

21 hours ago, Sucuk Ekmek said:

Regardless of S.D. stages who is benefiting or benefiting the most from this phenomenon? This would be my first perspective.

I brought up Spiral Dynamics because I believe it can provide a clearer understanding for readers. As many of the participants here are likely to be Americans or people from English speaking countries, they may not be familiar with the intricacies of Latin American conservatism. However, I am aware that this theory should be taken with a grain of salt, as it may not necessarily apply to every situation or culture strictly.

Moving on, I believe that individuals who do not identify as any particular gender may benefit greatly from this discussion. Additionally, women who are used to being represented by masculine language when reffering to large groups may feel more included if gender-neutral terms are used.

@Danioover9000 

In my university, we study structural racism and white privilege, and I recognize that these concepts can be difficult for many people to fully grasp. I don't mean to condemn anyone who struggles to understand them. However, when I encounter instances of racial discrimination, I do my best to address them and educate people on the issue. Unfortunately, that's often an wasted effort.

The challenge with gender-neutral language is that it's even more abstract and unfamiliar to the average person than concepts like structural racism and white privilege. This is not to say that people are unintelligent, but rather that our education system often fails to adequately address issues related to gender identity and language.

Logically speaking, it would seem reasonable to have gender-neutral language options available. However, it's not entirely clear for me how this could be practically implemented.

Portuguese can be considered to be a relatively inflexible language, which may make it more resistant to changes in its structure or usage. Other Latin or Romance languages may also face similar challenges but I'm not certain on this point.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Espaim

[Basman]

Lingustic gender neutrality makes more sense in english and other germanic languages. Being gender neutral in latin languages is going to be a lot less practical because of how they are fundamentally structured. 

It is quiet drastic to expect others to change their language to conform to a small minority of the population. Especially considering.

IMO, Its something you're more likely to spend time thinking about than actually dealing with it in your life unless you actually spend time with individuals where it would supposedly be apropiate to use gender neutral terms. Its effectively slang.

[Danioover9000]

@Basman

1 hour ago, Basman said:

Lingustic gender neutrality makes more sense in english and other germanic languages. Being gender neutral in latin languages is going to be a lot less practical because of how they are fundamentally structured. 

It is quiet drastic to expect others to change their language to conform to a small minority of the population. Especially considering.

IMO, Its something you're more likely to spend time thinking about than actually dealing with it in your life unless you actually spend time with individuals where it would supposedly be apropiate to use gender neutral terms. Its effectively slang.

   I think it's more effectively relativistic. Language is ultimately relative, it's just that most cultures out there, including those with romantic languages, will probably struggle a bit to convert into more linguistic gender neutrality.

[Hugo Oliveira]

I'm Brazilian too, and I recognize the linguistic problems.

But, before considering that, I think we need to consider the social and cultural implications. 

First, language was made for communication, it is a tool and has a function. Real inclusion can never be made through language, it can only be made through ethics. Think about art, architecture, fashion, and transport. Those things only adapt when really necessary (to help people with disabilities for example), otherwise, it is not reasonable to request changes in these areas, because it is not their purpose.  

Second, language is part of cultural identity, it tends to be protected by people like everything else that is part of our culture. Trying to force changes into it, will provoke a reaction. There are many people who don't agree with these changes. Do you know the results of that? Rate, division, and neo nazis groups arising everywhere. 

[Sucuk Ekmek]

4 hours ago, Espaim said:

I brought up Spiral Dynamics because I believe it can provide a clearer understanding for readers. As many of the participants here are likely to be Americans or people from English speaking countries, they may not be familiar with the intricacies of Latin American conservatism. However, I am aware that this theory should be taken with a grain of salt, as it may not necessarily apply to every situation or culture strictly.

S.D. is a great model but I just can't cope up with it.

4 hours ago, Espaim said:

Moving on, I believe that individuals who do not identify as any particular gender may benefit greatly from this discussion.

That's absolutely right they will benefit greatly from this discussion, afterall language is a living being and changes are inevitable.

But are these discussions as innocent as they seem? Here I have my doubts.

I know it sounds weird but for me these kind of discussions are orchestrated by dark Spiral Dynamics wizzards they are promising to go up but it never happens that way.

 

4 hours ago, Espaim said:

Additionally, women who are used to being represented by masculine language when reffering to large groups may feel more included if gender-neutral terms are used.

Yeah, I can relate it, we had that problem in early 2000's. In some fields Women were represented by masculine terms. Women didn't it like so people suggested  humaniterian terms, apparently everyone liked and used the new terms.(except far right I suppose, but as for today we all good)

I think the true masters of the language is the folk.

Here an example of language manipulation. It always gets me.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Sucuk Ekmek

[Espaim]

6 hours ago, Sucuk Ekmek said:

S.D. is a great model but I just can't cope up with it.

I appreciate your perspective overall, and while you may not personally agree with the Spiral Dynamics model, my main goal is to ensure that my point comes across clearly to readers of this specific forum.

8 hours ago, Basman said:

Its something you're more likely to spend time thinking about than actually dealing with it in your life unless you actually spend time with individuals where it would supposedly be apropiate to use gender neutral terms.

I have regular interactions with individuals who prefer to be referred to using gender-neutral language. So this is relevant for me to some point.

8 hours ago, Basman said:

It is quiet drastic to expect others to change their language to conform to a small minority of the population.

In my opinion, significant social changes usually take time, but it's essential to people going towards progress. Although I may not identify as an "active activist" of anything, I believe that we should strive to accommodate minority groups to the extent that is reasonable, at least in my personal life. History has shown that many social changes have been based on achieving equality and uplifting marginalized communities. For example, the civil rights movement fought for equal rights for African Americans, and the LGBTQ+ movement has made significant strides towards acceptance and inclusion. These movements have paved the way for a more just and equitable society. It's worth noting that I don't think we have an equitable society nowadays.

This connects to the representation I mentioned earlier, particularly in regards to women.

7 hours ago, Hugo Oliveira said:

First, language was made for communication, it is a tool and has a function. Real inclusion can never be made through language, it can only be made through ethics. Think about art, architecture, fashion, and transport. Those things only adapt when really necessary (to help people with disabilities for example), otherwise, it is not reasonable to request changes in these areas, because it is not their purpose.  

While this may not be the primary concern, addressing this issue could potentially aid in advocating for greater inclusivity. Nonetheless, I must acknowledge that you have raised a valid point.

Edited April 16, 2023 by Espaim

[Say10]

 

[Intraplanetary]

17 hours ago, Sucuk Ekmek said:

I know it sounds weird but for me these kind of discussions are orchestrated by dark Spiral Dynamics wizzards they are promising to go up but it never happens that way.

What are you referring to by dark SD wizards? I've never heard of such thing and I've been interested in SD for a while now.

[Danioover9000]

@Intraplanetary

3 hours ago, Intraplanetary said:

What are you referring to by dark SD wizards? I've never heard of such thing and I've been interested in SD for a while now.

   He's trolling me, there's no such thing as dark spiral wizards. Or he's mixing Spiral Dynamics modal with the dark personality triad modal (Narcissism, psychopathy and Machiavellianism/sociopathy) along with sadism/masochism. 

[Sucuk Ekmek]

4 hours ago, Intraplanetary said:

What are you referring to by dark SD wizards? I've never heard of such thing and I've been interested in SD for a while now.

You are right, as far as I know there is no such a thing in SD. It's almost like I made up the term but the dark magican elements (or archetype)  goes  far back to the character Prospero in Shakespeare's play  The Tempest. Probable even further

 

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Intraplanetary

   He's trolling me, there's no such thing as dark spiral wizards. 

Trolling someone in ananonymous online forum is pathetic.

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Intraplanetary

    Or he's mixing Spiral Dynamics modal with the dark personality triad modal (Narcissism, psychopathy and Machiavellianism/sociopathy) along with sadism/masochism. 

Oh thank you,  you actually reminded me an old theory that I almost forgot about it. From the dark perspective I mix SD with Skopos theory. That's a good showcase.