Awakened folks, how do you view yourselves?

[Grateful Dead]

On 16.4.2023 at 10:29 AM, A Fellow Lighter said:

I think of myself as that flashlight in my day-to-day activity, because that's the view that is most useful for getting around.

I only use the ‘light field’ view when I'm meditating on reality. It helps me focus.

I do it similar to him and switch between them.  But I think there is some truth to the flashlight metaphor, in that God is in a way exploring Himself through you.

@Water by the River I think you're missing the point if you make spirituality about avoiding suffering.

[Water by the River]

40 minutes ago, acidgoofy said:

 

@Water by the River I think you're missing the point if you make spirituality about avoiding suffering.

I personally try to make it more about bliss, and not just avoiding suffering  . Gives it a more positiv spin...

But I get your point.

Why do you have the impression that I make spirituality about avoiding suffering? 

In my opinion, the most important thing is to understand what the Absolute/Reality/True You is. Since its actually all the same, I can write it with the ../../.. .

• That Understanding/Realization brings on top of the insight the freedom from the cycle of suffering.
• And if it doesn't, maybe something to reflect about? Which is of course only my humble perspective, and that of virtually all Spiritual Traditions and their enlightened showcases.

And maybe that is no coincidence that really understanding and realizing Ultimate Reality/True You/Absolute brings along freedom from suffering? As a benevolent gesture, that nobody gets lost and stops halfway? Like, blissed out halfway up the mountain?

But hey, its a free country. Anybody can play the game that their hearts resonate with.... 

Bon voyage!

Water by the River

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

And maybe that is no coincidence that really understanding and realizing Ultimate Reality/True You/Absolute brings along freedom from suffering?

It's not coincidence?

Within the dream, except in the rarest cases the absolute is born within a form that it mistakes for itself. Even in the womb, the form develops aversions and desires. These attachments multiply and tighten, and identification with the form becomes more deeply entangled by the conditioning of the relative cosmos. The absolute is entirely lost and bound by the maya of its imagination.

To perpetually realize itself, these attachments to the cosmos must dissolve. There are initial glimpses of its true nature, through windows of meditation, psychedelics, contemplation, service, or devotion. These glimpses come and go, and can only be sustained through surrendering the attachments of the mind.

Initially, there is enormous resistance. Who is willing to let go of pursuing every desire and fleeing every fear? Inconceivable, until the absolute within the mind begins to realize that these desires do not fulfill it, nor does fleeing fears keep it safe. Inevitably, these attempts not only fail, but they deepen the experience of its suffering.

The absolute sees that nothing short of surrendering its attachments will set it free. When it has finally suffered enough, it lets these attachments go. It is the humble triumph of the prodigal son returning home. The light of its true nature floods through the form, gradually dissolving the attachments that remain, until the form becomes the unobstructed conduit of the absolute.

This is lucid living, within the dream.

[Grateful Dead]

2 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Why do you have the impression that I make spirituality about avoiding suffering? 

Your post sounded like you avoid going deeper so you won’t lose your blissful state. Maybe I just read it like that because I went through that a few years ago. And sorry I was replying in the wrong topic, it was meant to your last post in the god realization books topic.

I mostly agree with what you said here. But for me, freedom from suffering does not mean the end of suffering.

[Mikesinfinity]

20 hours ago, acidgoofy said:

I do it similar to him and switch between them.  But I think there is some truth to the flashlight metaphor, in that God is in a way exploring Himself through you.

Yeah, what I’ve really been trying to wrap my head around is how it all connects in relation to other bodies. Sorry if I’m going a bit wider than my original post but I’m just throwing the question out here.

Like right now I have no experience of my eyes or head. It’s like I’m completely faceless but when I’m conversing with another body I ”imagine” my face and that the other body is looking at a face here.

But if it’s actually true that I am faceless and that there is not really a head with eyes here looking out but an empty space that all of these appearances are happening within, then the other body is actually not perceiving my face?

And in the same way if I extrapolate another perspective and do a 180, then I guess my body where I do have a face is also happening in the same space?

If God as you say are exploring though us does that mean those two bodies in that conversation is not looking at each other but that God is imagining and holding both of them within itself? And all these ideas of eyes and perception that aren’t actually in my direct experience are the ways I’ve been taking a false ownership of what’s really God’s experience of the other body as something belonging to my body?

[Grateful Dead]

20 hours ago, Mikesinfinity said:

But if it’s actually true that I am faceless and that there is not really a head with eyes here looking out but an empty space that all of these appearances are happening within, then the other body is actually not perceiving my face?

In a way they are imo, I mean don't you see different faces? But yes, absolutely, it is only God looking at himself, if you mean that.

20 hours ago, Mikesinfinity said:

And in the same way if I extrapolate another perspective and do a 180, then I guess my body where I do have a face is also happening in the same space?

I would say it's happening in the same space but I am not sure if I exactly understand how you mean that. 

20 hours ago, Mikesinfinity said:

If God as you say are exploring though us does that mean those two bodies in that conversation is not looking at each other but that God is imagining and holding both of them within itself?

It's both for me. The two bodies look at each other, they are both God and this interaction takes place in the mind of God. In my view god imagnes both bodies so that it can explore those perspectives. 

21 hours ago, Mikesinfinity said:

And all these ideas of eyes and perception that aren’t actually in my direct experience are the ways I’ve been taking a false ownership of what’s really God’s experience of the other body as something belonging to my body?

Yes, basically you believe the science and don't rely on your direct experience.

[Water by the River]

On 18.4.2023 at 11:59 AM, Mikesinfinity said:

But if it’s actually true that I am faceless and that there is not really a head with eyes here looking out but an empty space that all of these appearances are happening within, then the other body is actually not perceiving my face?

And in the same way if I extrapolate another perspective and do a 180, then I guess my body where I do have a face is also happening in the same space?

If God as you say are exploring though us does that mean those two bodies in that conversation is not looking at each other but that God is imagining and holding both of them within itself? And all these ideas of eyes and perception that aren’t actually in my direct experience are the ways I’ve been taking a false ownership of what’s really God’s experience of the other body as something belonging to my body?

Hi Mike,

I am not sure if I fully get your questions. If my answer below is not on topic, please excuse, and let me know.

Below are some ramblings on the topic of space, and

• how it developed for me going from "self-existing-reality-aspect" to "imagined in Reality/Infinite Consciousness".
• which was one of the deciding steps boosting nonduality/mere groundless appearance in everyday life, making the constant intuiting of fundamental Nothingness/Reality much more proficient.

At least for me, space itself was one of the last things to go from "self-existing" to imagined.

• "Time" as concept goes before, and is replaced by the Always Here Mind/Reality. Space is one of the first "Archetypes" necessary for manifestation in this dimension, and one of the last things to be seen through.
• Space is not fundamental (or self-existing), it is also imagined. Space (any kind, 3D, 4D, non-euclidian, whatever. Infinite amounts of different space-dimensions in Mathematics) is not any kind of Absolute Reality.
• It took me a long time to get this, thinking along quite similiar lines of thought as these you write above. Space is normally seen as such a fundamental that (at least for me) didn't even considering questioning that, or rather wondered how space "fits into the picture" of Ultimate Reality,which has cost me quite some time.

The perspectives of Consciousness/Reality of the Leavitt picture (hyperbolic Euclidian Space of Visual Fields Bubbles, see previous posts) are not situated in any kind of space. The "Absolute or Nothingness/Primary Consciousness/Reality unaware of itself when no arising is imagined" is more fundamental than space. It is fundamentally totally spaceless. Space is imagined in it. As one of the first arisings. If there is nothing, there is no kind of space. Just Infinite Potential. See the Massaros Waterpistol example (Conversations with a Skeptic) I wrote about in previous posts. With space, I mean any kind of space, 3D, non-Euclidian, n+1 dimensions.

 

Also, Indras Net is not situated in space. Leavitts Picture is a version of Indras Net. Both taken together are a nice working model.

• An Infinity of perspectives are imagined, and all but your own perspective forgotten in space.
• Psychedelics can loosen that quite a lot, you get access to more than "your" perspective of this life.

But One Absolute Consciousness/Reality is aware of them all (since there can not be anything else than THAT, which is also a direct realization), and "that" also happens to be the stuff/material of all appearances, totally nondual. Perceptions perceiving themselves. And with no appearance/arising, this Reality is unware of itself, but with the potential for sentience.

 

To make it more practical: If you have ever remained aware while going from Dream Sleep to waking state (or the other way round): There is a spaceless state in between, with NOTHING arising. Infinite. No Space. "vast", but not even vast. Just infinite. It is not 3D-Space. Just Nothing. No separate small you. Only Infinite Potential. Similiar to Deep Sleep (blackout), but like an infinite Nothingness/darkness suffused with light, timeless since there is no movement, just nothing. Your perspective is not situated in space then.

• Space gets imagined in the dream, and in "waking-life", so "before" or "after" THAT (and to be more precise, since there is no time/change in it, it all gets imagined IN IT). And of course, waking life is also a dream, just more coherent, happening in IT/You/Reality.
• With enough meditation/practice awareness can carry into these states, and instead of the usual Deep Sleep Blackout it can become something as described above, which of course makes the structure of reality more clear. Maya-Deep-Sleep-Blackout replaced by something more revealing (Infinite Darkness suffused with light, and not just a blackout). And I know, all of that is imagind right now, but these states still can occur. And its quite beneficial for understanding to experience them.

 

All this logical reasoning can't get you to the big Awakening into what You really are. But a coherent explanation can help calm the thinking-mind during meditation (on or off the pillow), especially when its no longer only concentrative meditation, but meditation without concentration-support-object, and make it "compatible" for the Realization. And can help you boost your nondual/mere appearance visual field during that. 

With that goal, I write these lines. Not to logically get you to a conclusion/reasoning that you are IT, but to open the door to be available for that Realization in certain fully nondual states when you are fully empty of separate self arisings, and all perceptions appear as mere appearance. But I agree that the Zen-guys are way smarter than me: They would just mainly stay shut up, smile at you and make you meditate (boost nondual states), and say something like "go looking for the face before your parents were born". Which is actually the same thing I try to point to above. It is up for the reader if these ramblings of mine are of any worth.

The Realization is a direct insight/understanding, Consciousness/Reality understanding itself, since there is nothing else.

• It is not "I always come to this conclusion, that is why I can rule out the rest, so that must be it". That is all nice and good (and necessary), some of the preliminary Awakenings/Enlightenments coming before the Big Bang, necessary to a certain degree and profiency to make the Mindstream "compatible" for the Big Bang.
•  It is more like something undeniable, like a punch in the face. It is an unmistaken insight into what the True You/Reality are, no doubt/error possible. Self evident. Dead-certain (literally). The possibility that one can be gaslit on that Realization is something like a joke occuring in You/Reality. Or, as said in Zen: You can smile the devil in the face, and not be shaken in your certainty of What You are. Or: Who knows the spring does not drink from the cup.
• If "you" still can doubt it, it is not It.

The more compatible your mindstream is with the Enlightened Mind (meaning no possible concept not seen through as thought arisings-in you, the last to go after space is "individuality" of a separate anything), the higher the chance for the Big Bang described above. Small "you" can't force it, but create circumstances where IT can happen (That is a large chunk of the essence of Nonmeditation-Yoga in Mahamudra).

You become the whole Infinite "Thing" afterwards, with nobody watching "It". Perceptions perceiving themselves, Steven Norquist style. See my last post if you are so inclined.

• And yes, that haunted emptiness is the price to pay. But it just happens to look like there is a "real" price to pay, looking like that from before that Gateless Gate. Having gone through it, there never was a price to pay. To the opposite, you win It all. Everything. Everything there could ever be.
• What you "loose" is just the grip of the separate thinking/feeling arisings of the separate-self-Gestalt, which was nothing more than a a pattern of illusion-arisings (technically (and beware, reductionism ahead): patterns of phenomena-arisings of a separate self=structure=probability distribution of arising, a process of arisings with a certain systematic to it). Arising in you, but not self-existing: You can happily exist without it.
• What remains is Reality itself, and a person that isn't less functional than before, but more so (because you are not standing in the way of the optimal rollout of Consciousness/Reality). Short form: "I am not a human, I have a human".
• To fully get it, you need to awaken to it. Or said differently: If you would fully understand all of the above, you would be realized. On how long its stays "haunted", and how much this haunted reaction lasts: I write more about that in my last post.

Maybe that is interesting for you, and I hope I didn't miss the questions too much. If I would have known that back in the day, I would have been faster and could have avoided some time-consuming mistakes. That is why I write it, not to lecture anybody or proove any fixed ideas of mine. The Ego is in large parts a cluster of beliefs, which it has to defend life-or-death style, because for the Ego its exactly that (at least with important core-beliefs). Similiar to what the bear does in the video in the signature of the post. If its not useful for you, just disregard it. 

In case I rambled on, please excuse the deviation.

Selling Water by the River 

 

PS: If anyone feels inclined to comment on the post, please

• check if the bear-move in the link below (signature of the post) is being performed or not, and
• preferably the Blackeyes Peas and "Where is the love" (or something similiar) is being played in your emotional continuum. 
• Then, any questions, comments, and suggestions are even more welcome than when the song is not playing.  

PSPS: "If God as you say are exploring though us does that mean those two bodies in that conversation is not looking at each other but that God is imagining and holding both of them within itself? And all these ideas of eyes and perception that aren’t actually in my direct experience are the ways I’ve been taking a false ownership of what’s really God’s experience of the other body as something belonging to my body?"

Yes, pretty much like that. Various aspects:

1) Leavitts Non-Euclidian perspectives style, and most perspectives forgotten +

2) Indras Net that any perspective reflects all others +

3) aspect that for example even an atom or molecule has some kind of proto-perspective, reacting on similiarly leveled perspectives (=Holons in Ken Wilbers system, and similiar leveled = other molecules).

And Holons/Perspectives all the way down (to infinity, quarks, ....) and all the way up (to infinity, like Galaxy-governing-monads, Universe-governing-monads, Multiverse-creating/sustaining/governing monads, and infinitely higher up n+1, and also completely "OTHER" realms, unimaginable to human mind with space/time/.... For that, see Jac O'Keeffe).

And then one could start wondering of how much of that one can have explored/understood of all that manifested stuff in one single human lifetime. Next to Nothing. Infinitesimal so to say, if one is mathematically-prone. So maybe instead one fully realize ones essence and structure of Ultimate Reality/True You as Infinite/Nondual/Absolute Reality/Infinite Consciousness, and LIVE THAT as much as possible? With the bliss it brings? Not to talk about the "hang-over" of the (imagined of course) good Karma/tendencies that brings for ones next imagined manifestation (only if one is inclined to believe in that, which is of course not absolutely real, but part of the imagined show). But that would still be nice for the big show that "we" are all celebrating here  

So basically, with that model above, you don't need space as self-existing reality.

Any maybe consider replacing the God word with some bundle like "Infinite Consciousness/Reality/God/True You".

• Just to not project/make God some self-existing external reality outside of you.
• Ultimate Reality is nondual, Infinite Consciousness Nothingness perceiving its own manifestations, perceptions perceiving themselves without separate self elements "clouding" the true state of things. God is not somewhere outside. God is right here. What imagines all of that?
• Biggest possible accident: Projecting/Confusing the Individuality-Arisings of the Separate-Self-Gestalt on God/Reality/Infinite. That is the worst possible seductive kiss from Maya imaginable. Yet, quite a show....

Edited April 19, 2023 by Water by the River

[Mikesinfinity]

5 hours ago, acidgoofy said:

I would say it's happening in the same space but I am not sure if I exactly understand how you mean that.

Yeah, I don’t know if space is the right word but when I’m contemplating this I try to completely remove they idea of anything existing outside what’s present right now and then I don’t know where I am anymore.

I do ”walk-contemplations” regularly and if I seize imagining that objects keep existing as they are disappearing I get the sense that I’m actually not moving anywhere, similar to a screen being stationary if I’m playing cyberpunk and walking around in that game world. Especially walking around on weed, I get moments where it’s like I completely pop out of being situated on earth. So it’s this sense of being nowhere that I call the ”space”.

Because in normal life outside of contemplation I feel located and think there are others located at different positions. But when I loose my location and start to think about what an other is..

I had an experience when talking to somebody I already felt close to on a personal level, where it felt like those separated positions merged and seized to be two and I experienced intense love and euphoria. I don’t know if that was a glimpse or whatever but it was amazing.

 

5 hours ago, acidgoofy said:

Yes, basically you believe the science and don't rely on your direct experience.

Thanks for a direct answer. Yep, there is still some battle going on here between trusting my direct experience and what I’ve been told.

 

3 hours ago, Water by the River said:

At least for me, space itself was one of the last things to go from "self-existing" to imagined.

• "Time" as concept goes before, and is replaced by the Always Here Mind/Reality. Space is one of the first "Archetypes" necessary for manifestation in this dimension, and one of the last things to be seen through.
• Space is not fundamental (or self-existing), it is also imagined. Space (any kind, 3D, 4D, non-euclidian, whatever. Infinite amounts of different space-dimensions in Mathematics) is not any kind of Absolute Reality.
• It took me a long time to get this, thinking along quite similiar lines of thought as these you write above. Space is normally seen as such a fundamental that (at least for me) didn't even considering questioning that, or rather wondered how space "fits into the picture" of Ultimate Reality,which has cost me quite some time.

Yes, I’ve been trying to question 3d space itself and that was one thing I was trying to tackle with throwing out the flashlight metaphor. Because I notice my default view in normal life when not contemplating this stuff is imagining a ”line”, like the light coming from the flashlight, between two points, a body and the object I focus on.

So yes, what I was asking about partly was if this ”line” I’m drawing and thus those two end points is something I’m only imagining and doesn’t really exist outside my imagining them.

 

3 hours ago, Water by the River said:

All this logical reasoning can't get you to the big Awakening into what You really are. But a coherent explanation can help calm the thinking-mind during meditation (on or off the pillow), especially when its no longer only concentrative meditation, but meditation without concentration-support-object, and make it "compatible" for the Realization. And can help you boost your nondual/mere appearance visual field during that.

Yes, I’m aware that I’m not gonna think myself into it. I actually tripped on lsd two days ago and meditate regularly so I’m going at it from all angles. But I notice these doubts are blocking me from going deeper so I don’t view all these questions and contemplations as completely pointless. I understand that a conclusion is something you reach through reasoning and if truth is beyond reason that’s not gonna cut it.

 

3 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Maybe that is interesting for you, and I hope I didn't miss the questions too much. If I would have known that back in the day, I would have been faster and could have avoided some time-consuming mistakes. That is why I write it, not to lecture anybody or proove any fixed ideas of mine. The Ego is in large parts a cluster of beliefs, which it has to defend life-or-death style, because for the Ego its exactly that (at least with important core-beliefs). Similiar to what the bear does in the video in the signature of the post. If its not useful for you, just disregard it. 

I appreciate both of your answers. And also @Water by the River , you have been engaging with me very patiently and thoroughly in many posts and I want you to know I appreciate it. I’m not just reading it one time and then go and do my laundry and forget about it, I go back to all the pointers I get from you and others and contemplate them to the best of my ability.
I’ve given some snarky comments to some because I believe there is some parroting going on here, especially when the replies are ”talking down” to me or giving off superiority vibes, but I don’t sense that from you at all. Hearing that you yourself at some point were thinking in similar lines is encouraging because I don’t really have anyone in my social circle here questioning direct experience and being able to talk to about it, they are all staunch materialists so when being surrounded by those all the time it can create doubt in my mind. Thank you.

[Water by the River]

1 hour ago, Mikesinfinity said:

Yes, I’ve been trying to question 3d space itself and that was one thing I was trying to tackle with throwing out the flashlight metaphor. Because I notice my default view in normal life when not contemplating this stuff is imagining a ”line”, like the light coming from the flashlight, between two points, a body and the object I focus on.

So yes, what I was asking about partly was if this ”line” I’m drawing and thus those two end points is something I’m only imagining and doesn’t really exist outside my imagining them.

Yes. I thought for a long time that the Absolute is maybe somehow "behind" space, or being bigger than the Visual Field (that was already at least sometimes nondual at that point in time). Or that it encompasses the visual field. At some points, it dawns on oneself that all of these "probings", attempts, investigations.... are just more arisings happening within you. And the space is imagined IN YOU. If you try to looke for this line, drawing this line, imagining this line, you imagine it WITHIN the space you imagine. It all appears or is being imagined.

You will never find the Absolute in any object, any arising, any location. Any self, any appearance, any anything. But this process of "emptying out" everything, to fully BECOME it, to see each an any arising (thought, appearance, understanding, whatever,n+1) as arising in YOU, you have to become fully empty. Nothingness. But yet, that process has to be walked earnestly to the final end, and can not be shortcut. Also because the Absolute is also infinite, IN-FINITE. Nothing you can measure, find, define. Nothing finite. No arising/appearance, however subtle. Even formless arisings (thoughts, formless subtle level lightshow, whatever), are not it. Because IT is timeless. Always there. Formless arisings also come and go. Nice book on that topic: Szyper, Infinite Consciousness. 

And then, when You are fully empty, you can be fully everyting, nondual.

A more concise formulation, and much more beautiful than my ramblings above:

“We live in illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all.”

― Kalu Rinpoche

 

1 hour ago, Mikesinfinity said:

Yes, I’m aware that I’m not gonna think myself into it. I actually tripped on lsd two days ago and meditate regularly so I’m going at it from all angles. But I notice these doubts are blocking me from going deeper so I don’t view all these questions and contemplations as completely pointless. I understand that a conclusion is something you reach through reasoning and if truth is beyond reason that’s not gonna cut it.

Perfect. 

If the thinking can solve all open existential questions, you can rest in the Suchness that you are. Nonmeditation-Yoga.

• You cut off all separate self arisings in real time (since you are proficient enough in that "cutting off" immediately when these "thought-capsules" arise out of consciousness. They havent even been elaborated out, that comes later. Funny thing is, at some point you notice they emerge with the full content of the thought already "in there", and that gets elaborated later and more slowly. The Skill of Reckognition in Daniel Browns "Pointing Out the Great Way". Getting that high-speed cut-off in place triggered for me the step from just cutting thoughts/separate self arisings, aka emptying the mindstream while the "external" world is still solid & out there, to the visual field getting nondual, centerless, luminous mere appearance.
• So that transforms the Visual Field slowly to mere groundless appearances. You feeling localized ends, the localization dissolves. My theory for that (but I have no proof), is that the Endohuasca-System of the body gets activiated.
• To cut off efficiently all "Great Doubts/Questions", as I termed them for myself, like the questions above on the nature of space/time/separate self, you need to understand the answer and "how it works". Or you push through with Koan-Meditation concentration-style. That also works, but I feel very sure that this would have taken me 5-10 times longer, and would have been much much (!) more unpleasant.
• How to "finish" time Mahamudra/Pointing Out the Great Way Style, and end up at the so called "Always Here Mind", the eternal or rather timeless Infinite Consciousness, thats another topic. If you are interested let me know. That is described for example in the Yoga of Unelaboration Chapter of Pointing Out the Great Way.

Assumption/Theory: Meditation-induced and body-produced Endohuasca (DMT, 5-MeO, ....):

• What I assume is that a certain level of proficiency of cutting/transcending of the "harder/deeper" searate self arisings, and the "hard/deeper" existential questions (like space/time/....),  or transcending and letting them just play out, but being aware of them as objects, being able to cut them anytime, see their arisings out of consciousness, their flow with in, and their disappearance, triggers probably some kind of Endohuasca-System, your body producing similiar chemicals (DMT,5-MeO, MAO-Inhibitors....) that you can also trip with when supplying them externally. To trigger that means staying in full mindfulness for a long time, having taken the meditation off the pillow and not getting distracted. The effects are very similiar to Psychedelics (nonduality, luminous mere appearance, groundlessness of all appearance, Infinity, timelessness, even shutting off the separate self/Ego (although not completely mostly. Some quite subtle feeling/filters/lenses of perceptions of Individuality (sth watching sth.) often remain): https://dmtquest.org/endohuasca-magic/
• and that gives you the multiple hundreds/maybe thousands of hours that one needs in the "nondual timless infinite mere appearance visual field state" to get aware of every last subtle separate self arising. But that can be done in everyday life, at least while not being distracted too much.
• Of course, getting previews by psychedelics to confirm that there is something to be reached, to get to know the Nondual Infinite Field of mere appearance, maybe even visiting the causal Whiteout-Godhead of Infinite Potential: Awesome. But probably will not suffice in most cases to get one "on the other side".
• Then, finally, at the very end, the separate self is just a very very subtle feeling of individuality. Body, Location, Duality, time, all have gone a long time ago. Its just an Infinity of groundless mere appearance visual field showing up, limitless, already nondual(!) and luminous/mere appearing. And "a" nothing that is only aware of that. Like nearly nothing at all. Very very subtle and murky. Roger Thisdells No-Self, stage 4. And then you are ready for the Big Bang, that then can happen all by itself. Sudden Awakening. One can not force it. Crossing over happens by itself, resting long enough in that state, and letting it ripen.
• If one wants to do that only by tripping... well, I never read from or about one case where Full Enlightenment/Realization actually worked. But maybe there are cases. It takes too much time to get rid of the last subtle veils of the separate self, and by tripping you can also be distracted by the show/understanding/whatever. It always reads like some separate-self elements still well and alive and not transcended, no fully empty "No-Self" having looked totally in to the Abyss of Nothingness,but having had the hell of an infinite nondual mere appearance experience of a (for sure) very interesting visual field bubble or God or Alien or I don't know what. Plenty of stuff in the Multiverse to explore and understand, especially considering that it goes upwards the Holon-Pyramid forever (Planet-Monad creating/maintaining all perspectives on it, Galaxy-Monad, Universe-Monad, Multiverse-Monad, n+1). And plenty of stuff of the properties of God to project on the remains of the separate self...

 

1 hour ago, Mikesinfinity said:

 And also @Water by the River , you have been engaging with me very patiently and thoroughly in many posts and I want you to know I appreciate it. I’m not just reading it one time and then go and do my laundry and forget about it, I go back to all the pointers I get from you and others and contemplate them to the best of my ability.
I’ve given some snarky comments to some because I believe there is some parroting going on here, especially when the replies are ”talking down” to me or giving off superiority vibes, but I don’t sense that from you at all. Hearing that you yourself at some point were thinking in similar lines is encouraging because I don’t really have anyone in my social circle here questioning direct experience and being able to talk to about it, they are all staunch materialists so when being surrounded by those all the time it can create doubt in my mind. Thank you.

You are very welcome. 

I believe there are two elements installed in the universe, in order to not give Maya every advantage (she already has enough):

1.The radiating bliss/love of the Realized Being. 

2. Any separate self teaching "down from up high" with any "superiority-raditation", marveling at its own ingeniuty/superiority is normally just keeping the illusion going, because: If you are all, how can you be superior to anything? Compassion and humility, and helping "others" look around the next corner of their own path, is indicated. Not sustaining the illusion with "I see the Matrix", and its "Saul Goodman". 

Sorry 

And luckily, that attitude isn't very sexy for the fellow seekers, see point 2. above. 

 

On the other side, how are realized Dzogchen-Realizers depicted in Tibetan Buddhism: Radiating great humor. Why? Nothing "other" holy anywhere.... at least nothing where making jokes is forbidden.

But not a condencending/superiority humor that has fallen in love with itself. Because what is there that a "you" could be "superior" to? Superior to another aspect of Your Own Being? Easy way to cut reality in two or create duality, so a rather not so smart idea....

To tell the difference between these two kinds of humors, the hard-wirings of humans are usually quite well calibrated.

 

Selling Water by the River

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Water by the River

[Grateful Dead]

4 hours ago, Mikesinfinity said:

So it’s this sense of being nowhere that I call the ”space”.

Yes, I understand. That's a good starting point for going deeper. 

Quote

Yeah, I don’t know if space is the right word but when I’m contemplating this I try to completely remove they idea of anything existing outside what’s present right now and then I don’t know where I am anymore.

Because in normal life outside of contemplation I feel located and think there are others located at different positions. But when I loose my location and start to think about what an other is..

I had an experience when talking to somebody I already felt close to on a personal level, where it felt like those separated positions merged and seized to be two and I experienced intense love and euphoria. I don’t know if that was a glimpse or whatever but it was amazing.

Sounds good!

4 hours ago, Mikesinfinity said:

Yep, there is still some battle going on here between trusting my direct experience and what I’ve been told.

In my experience, breaking it down over and over again makes it more and more clear.

[Yimpa]

On 4/19/2023 at 7:17 AM, Mikesinfinity said:

Yeah, I don’t know if space is the right word but when I’m contemplating this I try to completely remove they idea of anything existing outside what’s present right now and then I don’t know where I am anymore.

Have you also considered not trying? 

[Mikesinfinity]

16 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Have you also considered not trying? 

I’m doing contemplations here where I actively think about these things. It’s different from just sitting on a cushion and it doesn’t take away from also doing that. All this nit-picking and whataboutism is really tiring.  

Have you considered not trolling in every comment?

[Breakingthewall]

For me the difference is that I am not interacting with reality, but I am this experience that is happening. there are no other people or external events but everything is a unit that moves. understanding the nuances of this movement is fundamental and is what makes the limitations dissolve more and more. reality takes on a meaning, a direction, like a choreography that unfolds. It's like a psychedelic trip. I am the one who is creating this trip, and there is nothing in which it does not have a precise meaning. everything is about deepening you, all the obstacles that I put had that objective. It is a harmonic dance of love and beauty. You just have to follow the rhythm, understand its harmony, bend to it and at the same time direct it with your will.

[Razard86]

On 4/14/2023 at 7:10 PM, CARDOZZO said:

I've had awakening experiences.

Post-awakening Effects: No mind, just silence, pure silence for 3 days, aliveness.

But after 3 days, the mind starts to have power again.

I don't know if you can become enlightened 100% all day like "permanent enlightenment".

I don't know if it's possible.

 

It's possible and rather easy. As long as you think it is isn't possible, it won't be possible.

[RickyFitts]

On 17/04/2023 at 5:13 PM, Moksha said:

It's not coincidence?

Within the dream, except in the rarest cases the absolute is born within a form that it mistakes for itself. Even in the womb, the form develops aversions and desires. These attachments multiply and tighten, and identification with the form becomes more deeply entangled by the conditioning of the relative cosmos. The absolute is entirely lost and bound by the maya of its imagination.

To perpetually realize itself, these attachments to the cosmos must dissolve. There are initial glimpses of its true nature, through windows of meditation, psychedelics, contemplation, service, or devotion. These glimpses come and go, and can only be sustained through surrendering the attachments of the mind.

Initially, there is enormous resistance. Who is willing to let go of pursuing every desire and fleeing every fear? Inconceivable, until the absolute within the mind begins to realize that these desires do not fulfill it, nor does fleeing fears keep it safe. Inevitably, these attempts not only fail, but they deepen the experience of its suffering.

The absolute sees that nothing short of surrendering its attachments will set it free. When it has finally suffered enough, it lets these attachments go. It is the humble triumph of the prodigal son returning home. The light of its true nature floods through the form, gradually dissolving the attachments that remain, until the form becomes the unobstructed conduit of the absolute.

This is lucid living, within the dream.

Couldn't have said it better myself.?

[Yimpa]

6 hours ago, Mikesinfinity said:

I’m doing contemplations here where I actively think about these things. It’s different from just sitting on a cushion and it doesn’t take away from also doing that. All this nit-picking and whataboutism is really tiring.  

The irony is that you haven’t considered that you can do both at the same time.