God-Realization Books

[Lilia]

Hello everyone. I would appreciate high-quality book recommendations on God-realization the way Leo teaches it.

Thanks very much!

 

 

[Forza-Spirito]

I think the teaching of Leo is unique, and everyone on the forum has a different idea of what God-realization is.

 

[r0ckyreed]

I wish such a book existed. Unfortunately, no book or teaching will get you there. 

The Book of Not Knowing and Jed McKenna are the closest books I think.

Edited April 13, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[Moksha]

Hi Lilia and welcome to the forum. I can't speak to God-realization as Leo teaches it (he does have a book list which has proven highly valuable to people).

For me, the source writings of mystics have been the most enlightening.

• Deep
  • The Wisdom of Insecurity (Alan Watts)
  • Untethered Soul (Michael Singer)
  • Being Ram Dass
  • Eckhart Tolle
• Deeper
  • Kahlil Gibran
  • The Dark Night of the Soul (St. John of the Cross)
  • Song of the Enchanting Wildwoods (Longchen Rabja)
• Deepest
  • Bhagavad Gita
  • Dhammapada
  • Upanishads
  • Tao Te Ching
  • Bible (especially Genesis/Psalms/Proverbs/Job in the old testament and the gospels in the new testament)
  • I Am That (Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj)

[Water by the River]

Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, The Supreme Source:

"I am the teacher, pure and total consciousness, whence everything manifests. Pure and total consciousness is the supreme source, it has created the Buddhas of the three times, from it have arisen the beings of the three worlds and the whole animate and inanimate universe. [... ]

Pure and total consciousness has created everything and has not created anything. It has created everything because it has created its own nature, pure and total. It has not created anything because within it there exists no need to create. When my nature is not understood and the phenomena that manifest from me become the object of judgement, desire and attachment give rise to the creation of concrete vision that is impermanent and destined to vanish like a magical apparition, and one becomes like a blind man who does not know what is happening. [...I"

"As I transcend all affirmations and negations, I am beyond all phenomena. As no object exists that is not myself, I am beyond meditating on a view. As there is nothing to keep apart from myself, I am beyond a commitment to observe. As there is nothing to seek other than myself, I am beyond obtaining the capacity for spiritual action. As no place exists outside myself, I am beyond a level of realization to surpass. As I have never encountered obstacles, I am beyond [everything] as self-arising wisdom. As I am the ultimate unborn nature, I am beyond [everything] as the [true] subtle ultimate nature"

"I am called "the perfect condition" becauseeverything is contained in me. I am called "the source" because the teacher, teaching, and disciples arise from my three natures"

"I am the essence of all phenomena; nothing exists that is not my essence. The teachers of the three dimensions are my essence. The Buddhas of the three times are my essence. The Bodhisattvas are my essence. The four types of yogins are my essence. The three worlds, of desire, of form, and without form, too, are my manifestation. The five great elements are my essence. The six classes of beings are my essence. Everything inanimate is my essence. Everything that lives is my essence. All the habitats and the beings living therein are my essence. Nothing exists that is not my essence because I am the universal root: there is nothing that is not contained in me. The unborn, the wonder of birth, and the manifestation of energy are the three aspects of the three teachers: this is their condition."

"As the three times, past, present, and future, abide exclusively in me, all the Buddhas are in the same condition: this too is my essence. As I transcend the dualism of subject and object, like space I am allpervading, and I constitute the fundamental substance of all phenomena: my essence is pure and total consciousness. I, that am the source, abide in the single state, and in this same authentic condition the practitioners of the "four yogas"

"Realize my nature, the supreme source that is pure and total consciousness. Teach that all the phenomena of existence are only myself! If you transmit my teaching, all your disciples will realize my nature and will become this very nature.

"If my nature were to be compassionately displayed to the beings of the three worlds who have originated from me,....  Thus I, the supreme source, disclose my nature, displaying it to myself."

"Nothing other than this exists; none of the Buddhas have ever received a higher teaching than this from me, the source. Aside from this condition of equality beyond concepts, I myself, the supreme source whence everything arises, have absolutely nothing whatever to display to myself."

"Listen! As all of you are created by me, you beings of the three worlds are my children, equal to me, the supreme source. You are me, inseparable from me, so I manifest to you and through the five teachers of my natures I teach the single state of the five essences [of the elements]. I am the single state, I, the supreme source: you too are, you must become certain of this!"

"Listen, Sattvavajra! I will show you your own nature. You are me, the source. I am and have always been pure and total consciousness. What is pure and total consciousness?"

"Among all things existing in the animate and inanimate universe, there is not one single thing that has not been created by me, nor is there a cause that does not derive from me. Thus I am the essence of all, and nothing surpasses me. I am superior to the three dimensions, to the Buddhas of the three times, to the Vidyadharas, to the Bodhisattvas, to the beings of the three worlds, to the whole animate and inanimate universe, because I am the maker of all. Before there was any other teaching I, that am the source, pure and total consciousness, disclosed the teaching of pure and total
consciousness."

 

But I don't know if that comment still holds:

You are  asking "God-realization the way Leo teaches it". Since I have a hard time following what the latest definition of the God-Realization-Awakening of Leo is, I am not the authority on what fits his current definition of God Realization.

There seems to be sometimes an update on the Awakening to the the Timeless Unborn (Capital Letters). 

 

-stolen from @GLORY- :

"No they can be awake
Or maybe even Awake
But they are not AWAKE™"

 

I personally can't agree to claims to why there is no Final Awakening or Enlightenment in which

• everything (including all appearances and thought/understanding-arisings) appears/is imagined in You,
• the small separate you is fully seen through, including seeing ANY feeling of any kind of Subjectivity/Individuality watching any kind of Infinity arising in you as more illusion.
• Just One Infinite (potentially sentient) Reality/You in which everything (n+1) appears/is being imagined/Mirage/Show, and Tat Tvam Asi.

And of course that includes

• imagining/manfesting all (just appearing/imagined) stories of Buddhism, (any spiritual system), your history, your past, your parents, n+1 (which means WHATEVER/Anything possible, or n+1).
• EVERYTHING is imagined as a big Illusion Show in the Real You (Capital Letters in case when talking about Absolute Reality). Or in other words: The ultimate Mindf*** (pardon my French). Or the ultimate joke. How could it be any different?

Of course you can always have more Understandings/Insight on the appearing/relative arisings "stuff/realities/dimensions/Lilas". And since "It" is infinite, you can go on understanding these forever and ever and ever ... infinitely. As long as you have fun doing that, and don't suffer: Perfect. But I wonder how one does the "not suffering" part when one is sobre and then not stably resting in the above described Realization. 

[Warning: Karma still holds. "Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."  Padmasambhava. So as long as a separate self thinks it can do what it wants since all is just imagined, the only outcome with mathematical precision can only be: suffering. With best regards from Maya, trying to guide you back home].

I have not seen one description from Leo of God Realization that is not covered by Full(!) Enlightenment into Reality/Your True Nature, fully understanding of what Reality is or what You are (please don't beat me ). That includes understanding that all and any manifestation arising in You/Reality is an empty, groundless, imagined(!) arising in you. Of course including the whole you, its history, n+1, EVERYTHING. And like I wrote above, if that is not the most tricky, twisted Illusion/Mindf***, I don't know what is. But the Magnificence and splendor of it ..... 

Maybe Leo can comment on that? What is the special thing about your definition of God Realization? I am honestly just respectfully asking, and it would be nice if the answer would a) be polite (not that my imagined self-worth suffers) and b) something with content, and not Glorys statement above in different wording + broomstick. Thanks a lot, and Namaste .

 

And for getting "there", among other books: "Pointing out the Great Way, Daniel Brown". And Psychedelics as a preview and along the path of course...

respectfully yours

Selling Water by the River

 

[Lilia]

@Water by the River The excerpt from Chogyal Namkhai Norbu is spot-on. Precisely the kind of expression that I asked for. Thank you.

You mentioned the perceived improbability of the 'sober state suffering' (or perhaps that's how I interpreted that part of your message), so I thought maybe I could share something with you. 

I have discovered that there comes a point at which suffering is not experienced as such. I mean the experience of suffering is there (e.g. the sensation of a sprained ankle is one and the same sensation whenever it's experienced, at all times), but there is no longer experience of it as painful. And it's not just a matter of interpretation where one tries to talk themselves out of the discomfort, nor is it the result of simply removing the distinction of pain. It is the actual experience that pain is not painful. Probing further, this pain turns out to be identical to bliss and is experienced as such (not in some perverse masochistic fashion, but because pain is experienced as God, and God is bliss, hence pain is no exception).

Articulating God realization is no easy task, and as I am learning to do it, I appreciate hearing how other people do it. Your comment helped me a lot.

 

 

[Lilia]

@Moksha Thanks very much for that!

[Phil King]

Turn On, Tune In, Drop Out by Timothy Leary

[Water by the River]

3 hours ago, Lilia said:

You mentioned the perceived improbability of the 'sober state suffering' (or perhaps that's how I interpreted that part of your message), so I thought maybe I could share something with you. 

Hi Lilia,

yes, there can be pain, but no psychological suffering stacked on top, and the pain itself much more removed with less focus, flowing through oneself like a distant wave.

What I wanted to say in my post (suffering and mainting Realization sobre/without psychedelics) was that without full stable Realization of ones True Nature and being able to keep that stable in everyday life (Postsamadhi), the cycle of suffering of the separate self continues. Without Realization of ones True Nature, one can have wonderful trips of Awakening with psychedelics, or just normal blissful experiences. But it never lasts.

The merry-go-round of being content/satisfied and then no longer content/satisfied (suffering in the Buddhist sense of Dukha means not literally suffering, but something mroe like unsatisfactoryness (everything being unsatisfactory in the end, which then also causes suffering) continues. It is (in my observation) a necessary building block of any Lila, because without it the separate self arising would at some point no longer find "projects", and just "fizzles" out at some point. And:

When I became able to rest in my True Nature (cutting off and/or just watching the separate-self arisings (thoughts/feelings) "Trekchö-style" emerging also at high frequencies, the visual field became limitless/infinite/nondual/mere appearance/imagined style/empty/groundless), and most of the separate self arisings were seen flowing through the Reality that the Real I is, I got a flow of bliss/love flowing from and through that Source/Reality that was independend from outer circumstances.

In the beginning I thought it was too good to be true, like am I fooling myself here. But it never stopped, and increased further, including the so called three special states of bliss, emptiness (groundlessness) and luminosity (shimmering mere appearance), which then also progressed further. At that time, the meditation was off-the-pillow (Postsamadhi-Meditation) since quite some time, so I got that in everyday life and not only while sitting.

And from that basis of a fully nondual infinite field of empty groundless mere appearances with no center/separate anything, one can start wondering WHAT kind of empty nonlocal Awareness really watches that infinite empty field of mere appearance, and in What that really appears. And then the Big Bang can suddenly happen. But that comes normally a considerable time after the stabilization of the Nondual Field described above.

Tashi Namgyal, quoted in Pointing out the Great Way, Brown:

"In short, crossing over [to Enlightenment] happens at the time when every single sensory experience—appearance [visual field] and thought [any separates self or thought arising in general]—are viewed as clarity/emptiness [mere empty groundless imagined appearance]  and movement/emptiness [thought/separate self arisings moving in You/Reality] with absolute certainty [meaning it is no a decission of any kind, but a self-evident observation and an  understanding of Absolute certainty, an Understanding of Ultimate Reality (infinite consciousness) understanding Itself]."

Or in other words: When you get it that anything there can ever be is just a imagined show happening in the True You, and

• the True You is so totally empty/Nothingness that it is when no appearance appears unware of itself,
• but with the potential for sentience if something is imagined.
• Or: Totally empty, Nothingness, so that IT can manifest anything and is not limited in any way, which it would be if IT/You were anything specific at all.

This is a point where many teachings become imprecise, or just end there (at a not so empty Nonduality), because the author didn't progress over that Nonduality-Stage with a still lingering pretty empty awareness/witness. Whenever you here "I am this Nonduality", a questionmark is indicated.  For that, see also this video (Prior to Nonduality):

 

Concerning what you describe about pain: Yes. If there is Physical pain, it is still there, but no psychological restisting/suffering arises because of it (which is like 80% of the perceived suffering). On top, as you describe, the physical pain flows through the Reality that you are, like the wind. Much more remote, like there is pain moving in me, but I am not that pain. It doesn't "grip" anymore. 

Bon voyage

Water by the River

Edited April 13, 2023 by Water by the River

[Yimpa]

[Water by the River]

Hi Lilia,

maybe you like these two quotes. They highlight how a large majority of the spiritual marketplace is still selling Nonduality, not the realization of Ultimate Reality/Absolute. 

Some even only sell No Ego/No Person, which comes before Nonduality/mere groundless nondual Appearance.... And some even call the "No Ego/No Person" No-Self.  . Well, caveat emptor.... ( :

 

Nisargadatta, in Consciousness and the Absolute: The Final Talks of Sri NisargadattaMaharaj edited by Jean Dunn

"The world is your direct experience, your own observation. All that is happening is happening at this level, but I am not at this level. I have dissociated myself from Sattva Guna, beingness.

The Ultimate state in spirituality is that state where no needs are felt at any time, where nothing is useful for anything. That state is called Nirvana, Nirguna, that which is the Eternal and Ultimate Truth. The essence and sum total of this whole talk is called Satguru Parabrahman, that state in which there are no requirements.

After the dissolution of the universe, when no further vestige of creation was apparent, what remained is my perfect state. All through the creation and dissolution of the universe, I remain ever untouched. I have not expounded this part: my state never felt the creation and dissolution of the universe. I am the principle which survives all the creations, all the dissolutions. This is my state, and yours, too, but you don't realize it because you are embracing your beingness. "

 

That quote of Nisargadatta is given in Halaw, God is Nothingness

Halaw writes:

"A major shortcoming with much of the nonduality pervading the modern spiritual marketplace is that it seldom acknowledges the Nothingness which permits ‘being’ in the first place. Awareness, Being, Presence—or some variation or combination of the three—and interconnectedness, seem to represent the extent of what modern nonduality is interested in.

Nothingness, however, transcends even nonduality; for while the nondual whole encompasses everything—all of ‘being’, in fact—it does not include Non-being, which precedes and acts as the very basis of ‘being’ itself.

Imagine: if nonduality, the interconnected matrix of all ‘being’, including mind or consciousness, were represented by an oil painting, then Nothingness is the canvas upon which the picture resides.

Nothingness pervades the entire nondual universe; it is the principle that permeates everything. In other words, Nothingness allows nonduality to occur in the first place, just as it does ‘being.’

The reason that the human body, mind, consciousness/awareness, interpenetrate is because Nothingness allows them to exist—or rather, they exist as manifest Nothingness.

This must be realized. Experiencing nonduality is not yet Enlightenment. We must penetrate deeper, past all sense of ‘being’, to the canvas below the paint to realize our and all beings’ true nature as boundless Nothingness. When that happens, ordinary mind becomes the Mind of the sages.

Buddha Mind, then, is the mind’s recognition of its own empty, groundlessness, not as some eternal supreme principle called Awareness, but as the very living, conscious embodiment of Nothingness in this world, at this very moment.

It is not an exaggeration to say that consciousness is the act of Nothingness being aware. To know ultimate Nothingness, jettison everything. That means the world, your body, mind, ideas, beliefs, saviors, prophets, Buddhas, and even consciousness itself. Everything in the manifest realm must go."

But don't throw the raft away in the river before you crossed it.... A not so smart move, quite often seen and read. Maya has got some funny tricks up her sleeve...      ( :

Selling Water by the River

PS: If all of this sounds bleak and like nothing-at-all:

• That Nothingness can create a new Creation "instantly". As it does every moment. It is not a no-thing-at-all (but Nothingness), but unlimited infinite Potential also. And the source of all sentience/awareness, initially unware of itself when no appearance is arising.
• IT "is" already everything, nondual. "IT" already makes every appearance groundless/mere appearance, the essence of every appearance is already Nothingness. Suchness. You, with a big Y. The Buddha-Nature at the core of every sentient being.
• At the same, it is the Absolute Abyss that can NEVER be seen as any object/arising, even by the highest Divinity. "The eye can't see itself"-style. Or God remains an eternal mystery to itself. Not on the arising/appearance side, and their mechanism. But with the Nothingness-aspect, the core of awareness/sentience, that can never be seen.

And after dabbling with writing about the neither existing nor non-existing Absolute/Totality/Reality, let's conclude with somthing much more precise after all these impossible endevours. ( :

Basho's Haiku: Into the ancient pond / a frog jumps / waters sound 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Water by the River

[TheAlchemist]

Best I can suggest is a combination of two books. 

Chris Bache's book for the hardcore but mature psychedelic exploration approach and Peter Dziuban to help orient towards seriously investigating Consciousness in direct experience. If you make a synthesis of these two authors approaches I think you might have something resembling Leo's approach.

[Breakingthewall]

On 13/4/2023 at 5:35 PM, Water by the River said:

Maybe Leo can comment on that? What is the special thing about your definition of God Realization? I am honestly just respectfully asking, and it would be nice if the answer would a) be polite (not that my imagined self-worth suffers) and b) something with content, and not Glorys statement above in different wording + broomstick. Thanks a lot, and Namaste .

Id say that Leo refers to the understanding of reality or god. many people, myself, have had the realization of our true nature, as it appears in the text you shared. the realization of what we are beyond form or time, the return to what always was. this seems to be the end of any search. what Leo says (I think) is that it is the beginning. This is what it looks like to me. The explanation of the "cosmic joke" seems very silly to me. a much deeper understanding can be reached. It seems that after years of continuing to delve deeper, Leo has realized deeper truth. interesting, right? I have that impulse to get to the bottom, and the psychedelic path works. you have to have intelligence and love for the truth, and courage btw

[Water by the River]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 I have that impulse to get to the bottom, and the psychedelic path works. you have to have intelligence and love for the truth, and courage btw

What the "bottom" or Absolute is, is pretty clearly defined. Absolute Reality itself, with the potential to switch off the show, and still be there.

That you and everbody can potentially realize, because you are it.

Then you can have for sure many many understandings on how the whole show works, how Reality/God works, how this and any other dimension works, on what God/Reality can do, ... ,  n+1.

Which you can go on exploring when you are either

a) fully resting in your True Being also in daily life,

• having no filters/lenses/not transcended separate self elements not already seen though, and having cut off suffering and getting bliss directly from the Source.
• The last "filter/separate self-element" by the way is "a" fully empty nothing (not Nothingness), "watching" the Infinity, "being aware" of it, but not fully being it at the core: A transparent feeling of Individuality (which already has no form, is empty, you are already nothing you can point to at this stage), the last remnants of it, already nondual and the visual field fully mere appearance. But that last filter-elements is precicly what prevents getting the "thing" stable in daily life. And I bet an experience of the nondual field, or even of the Infinite Godhead, is "coloured" and experienced through that last very subtle filter.

b) go on exploring having had experiences of the Absolute, and still some filters/lenses/not transcended separate self elements intact (in these experiences) and of course also in daily life, where exactly these filters/lenses/not transcended separate self element prevent:
1) realizing the Absolute without a bias (that is when the Absolute gets more properties than it really has. Because any property would limit it. Nothingness Halaw-style)
2) more important: not being able to be the nondual/groundless/mere appearing reality in everday life, and of course not getting the flow of bliss from "there" which then replaces the suffering of the separate self elements.

• These last filters/building blocks of the separate self are very subtle, very tricks, extremely fast occuring. You need to be very fast in spotting them, and letting them flow through you and not watching through these filteres/lenses, and you need to be very familiar with them.
• I am convinced, that most people need hundreds of hours (at that phase already off the pillow in daily life) to get familiar and fast enough to  let these lenses/filters of the last separate self building blocks flow through them (similiar to any other object) , and not look through them as lense/filter.
• If you look through them, it kills the state of nonduality and the world being a dreamlike mere appearance mirage, floating in groundless Nothingness (These  states by the way is what you also can get with Psychedelics). If you transcend these separate-self-building blocks/filters/lenses/contractions(!), probably the endogenous DMT-System of the body starts producing some kind of Endo-Huasca cocktail, see the fascinating research of https://dmtquest.org/questions-for-the-lion-tamer-1/  , especially chapter Chapter 24 – Endohuasca Magic. Your own illegal psychedelics factory in your body .

 

Shortform of the above:

a) Fully realize your True Nature (indicator: no more suffering-cycles in daily life) and then go exploring/understanding the manifestation and manifestation mechanism of reality and Reality or

b) go exploring before the bliss of a) is in place.

Both paths are valid, path b) can lead to path a) and non-suffering in daily life if done correctly (maybe with a bit meditation of the efficient variety added). Of course, the path a)-variety  of ~98%+ of the Spiritual Marketplace doesn't work. I can fully understand Leos dislike of selling the weak soup of just No-Ego/No-Person or an "Enlightened Person (cringe) having Nonduality and perceiving themselves to be that", but that is another topic.... 

I have never questioned path b). I just question giving path b) a higher value and meaning than path a). For me, that is a bit like voluntarily hitting your knee with a hammer, and calling that superior than hitting the nail, and repeating it. Sorry, love ya all.... ( :

I only wonder why anybody would call path b) with suffering "higher", and all paths a) "crap" and inferior. The state-highs and wonderful experiences delivered by understanding reality/God in my opinion only ease the pain of the remaining separate self suffering cycles. Yet, these Insights/Understanding-experiences are for sure truly wonderful and marvelous, probably the most beautiful experiences one can have, savored by highly developed souls which are attracted by such sublime experiences/understandings.

But still: Caveat Emptor.

 

But hey, what do I know?  NOTHING  . On good days a bit of NOTHINGNESS .  And "I" love it, and IT loves me.  . And I am fully open on the understanding and exploring of path b). Fully. Let's see what kind of alien stuff the brave and ingenious psychonauts drag home. I really look forward and am very curious.

Selling Water by the River

PS: Please don't beat me with the Broomstick . But I would be really curious on a substantial feedback from Leo. Thanks!

Edited April 17, 2023 by Water by the River

[JosephKnecht]

God Speaks by Meher Baba is the closest thing I have found thus far.