Dalai Lama apologizes after video asking child to 'suck' his tongue sparks outcry

[Epikur]

4 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Jwayne we are spinning in circles again. I already adressed it. There's nothing i can say to make my perspetion more valid then yours. It's just blue glasses world vs red glasses world stuff. 

So it is all interpretation? So in your world if the guru has sex with a child out of 'compassion' it is all good?

[Jwayne]

10 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Jwayne we are spinning in circles again. I already adressed it. There's nothing i can say to make my perspetion more valid then yours. It's just blue glasses world vs red glasses world stuff. 

You are spinning in circles on the question of his 'intention'.

I'm saying the 'intention' of the abuser is irrelevant to whatever abuse follows.

That's the reason cultural norms exist. There are behaviors that are nearly universally prohibited because nothing good can come from it. One of those is old men mouth-to-mouthing young boys.

It's the decision to take such an action which is problematic. There are millions of other ways to show compassion, playfulness and love which don't infringe upon the rights (and bodily integrity) of a child.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Jwayne

[Salvijus]

2 minutes ago, Epikur said:

So it is all interpretation? So in your world if the guru has sex with a child out of 'compassion' it is all good?

Anything that u do with total inclusiveness, respect, love, compassion is good in my world. It will bear the fruit of joy and happyness.

And everything that u do with no regards to others, out of restlesness, out of compulsiveness, out of selfishisness is not cool. It will cause u and others suffering.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

3 minutes ago, Jwayne said:

You are spinning in circles on the question of his 'intention'.

I'm saying the 'intention' of the abuser is irrelevant to whatever abuse follows.

"Anything that u do with total inclusiveness, respect, love, compassion is good in my world. It will bear the fruit of joy and happyness.

And everything that u do with no regards to others, out of restlesness, out of compulsiveness, out of selfishisness is not cool. It will cause u and others suffering."

U disagree with this? That's cool i wasn't aware you're trying to make this point in your previous posts.

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

The question boils down to. Did dalai lama cause suffering to the boy or did he show his love and compassion to him? What was the fruit of his actions? 

Well of course the media blew up. But leaving that aside. How did the kid felt at the end? Did he felt traumatized, disrespected, abused etc. Or it was all just laughter, playfulness and mutual continual respect and love for each other till the very end.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Salvijus

[Epikur]

Just now, Salvijus said:

The question boils down to. Did dalai lama cause suffering to the boy or did he show his love and compassion to him? What was the fruit of his actions? 

Well of course the media blew up. But leaving that aside. How did the kid felt at the end? Did he felt traumatized, disrespected, abused etc. Or it was all just laughter, giggles, playfulness and mutual continual respect and love for each other till the very end.

There is also something like Stockholm Syndrom. It is all fun and games till you feel the trauma later.

[Jwayne]

2 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

The question boils down to. Did dalai lama cause suffering to the boy or did he show his love and compassion to him? What was the fruit of his actions? 

Well of course the media blew up. But leaving that aside. How did the kid felt at the end? Did he felt traumatized, disrespected, abused etc. Or it was all just laughter, giggles, playfulness and mutual continual respect and love for each other.

How are you going to determine or measure the suffering this brought the boy?

It may not be felt until many years later, as is often so with trauma.

There is also the suffering brought to his family, specifically, his parents.

The way to prevent suffering in such situations is to go nowhere near them. Don't put yourself in such a dangerous place where you are an old man kissing a young boy and asking him (joking or not) to suck your tongue.

Once you have crossed that line. There is no telling what you may have done.

So it was a wild misjudgement for the Dalai Lama to go into this kind of situation. Why would he risk this unless it is his normal disposition?

[Salvijus]

2 minutes ago, Epikur said:

There is also something like Stockholm Syndrom. It is all fun and games till you feel the trauma later.

Yes there is. And there is also genuine relationships based in genuine love.

[Salvijus]

13 minutes ago, Jwayne said:

So it was a wild misjudgement for the Dalai Lama to go into this kind of situation. Why would he risk this unless it is his normal disposition?

I think he simply assumed it as a harmless joke. He was not even aware people will interpret it in such a bad way.

It happens to people who are very innoscent. Like if a saint walks naked and smiles at people. For a saint it could be just a happy day. For americans it's a huge offence.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

11 minutes ago, Jwayne said:

How are you going to determine or measure the suffering this brought the boy?

It may not be felt until many years later, as is often so with trauma.

I would question whether the boy really felt any trauma. If dalai lama was genuinely full of respect for him. He must have left the stage feeling elated and blessed. That's usually the fruit of genuine relationship based on genuine respect.

But im not gonna say that's what happened. That's just how i tend to see things through my yellow glasses.

Of course the drama caused by the media will probably have a not so pleasent consiquences.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Salvijus

[Jwayne]

5 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

I think he simply assumed it as a harmless joke. He was not even aware people will interpret it in such a bad way.

It happens to people who are very innoscent. Like if a saint walks naked and smiles at people. For a saint it could be just happy day. For americans it's a huge offence.

'Innocence' doesn't need to mouth kiss, does it?

Why not kiss the forehead?

Why kiss at all?

And why not just stick out your tongue and make a silly face?

Why tell him to suck it, and after saying it, why not be silly and laugh? Why keep the tongue extended?

Why lean in as if it were serious?

There are millions of other harmless jokes that don't have obvious predatory connotations.

[Salvijus]

@Jwayne he could've played it in a milion different ways. True. But the one he chose looked good in his mind probably bc he doesn't interpret every little thing as a human rights abuse. And we could debate that he didn't do anything wrong really if he maintained total sense of care for the boy's wellbeing. It would've been inappropriate only if it was an act of lust and a desire to use him for his pleasures against his will.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Salvijus

[Jwayne]

14 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Jwayne he could've played it in a milion different ways. True. But the one he chose looked good in his mind probably bc he doesn't interpret every little thing as a human rights abuse. And we could debate that he didn't do anything wrong really if he maintained total sense of care for the boy's wellbeing. It would've been inappropriate only if it was an act of lust and a desire to use him for his pleasures against his will.

He requested the boy to share (small) acts of intimacy with him. That's a kind of greed. It's not sharing but demanding (e.g. kiss my mouth, suck my tongue).

It's exploitative. Holding a hand is more than enough to show compassion. Or even more subtle is just a look, or a smile. Or some words.

Anything that shares and doesn't demand from the other. Especially not a physical demand.

[integral]

20 minutes ago, Jwayne said:

Why tell him to suck it

Its a joke to fool around, hes thinking and trying to find something to do that is unexpected, that's the mindset of all playfulness. 

21 minutes ago, Jwayne said:

and after saying it, why not be silly and laugh? Why keep the tongue extended?

He was laughing the entire time.

 

[Salvijus]

@Jwayne true. He did make the boy uncomfortable towards the end. But within appropriate limits. It's called teasing. If u do it while having total care for the other. There's nothing wrong with it.

And like ive sayed many times already. It's not like he was doing it with a hard dick in his pants saliva dripping in his mouth. So the "pervert" nerrative doesn't hold really. You have to look for a different interpretation then.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Salvijus

[integral]

7 hours ago, MsNobody said:

@integral the child's reaction shouldn't even be in question. It's an old man asking a child to have his tongue sucked. Dalai Lama is a normal mortal, and apparently he is perverted lol

A framing that he is perverted. When playing with children its normal to do unexpected things to get a laugh, this is the game.

The tongue was playfulness and the kiss wasn't. The kiss he was trying to be loving from his perspective like as parents kissing a new born baby or even older (this is common and completely non-sexual), from the child's perspective depending on his temperament he could of experience it in many different ways and one of them could of been discomfort, personally at that age it would of made me extremely uncomfortable and adults have done questionable things to me at that age as jokes that I interpreted at the time as "danger".

So I get where all this is coming from, but there is 2 experiences here, the kid and the lama, the kids perspective might be discomfort but that does not mean the lama is intentionally molesting a kid for personal gain. His intentions could also be innocent.

 

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which just makes him human like all of us. Putting him on a pedestal is dangerous, like someone who is in love and cannot see the flaws of the other person.

I'm not trying to prove my point here, if you allow me to say something about your POV I would say that it lacks compassion towards the child.

There are levels of enlightenment, it doesn't seem like he is very high up on the spiral. I'm not emotional about it, things are just simple sometimes, specially when it comes to child molestation, maybe because I'm a woman and I'm compassionate. I love children and am around them a lot, I could easily read his body language, maybe it's the intuitive side of women because we do need to read deeper into a child's behavior in order to care for them. 

This guy is in front of a camera 24/7, if he farts its on full display to the public. Its a bit unfair to judge someone entire life by one event where in this case its essentially a modern day media witch hunt.

Edited April 13, 2023 by integral

[integral]

Should Parents Kiss Their Kids on the Lips? Experts & Families Weigh In

This was the lamas intention. It turned out to be a shit show because it wasn't his kid. People kiss there dogs on the lips. Lmao

Edited April 13, 2023 by integral

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, integral said:

People kiss there dogs on the lips.

If you really love your dog you will kiss him on the ass hole.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you really love your dog you will kiss him on the ass hole.

Dogs love that

[StarStruck]

As a kid he had to suck a tongue, so now others have to suck his tongue. Monkey see, monkey do. I don't think that monkey is enlightened anyway.

23 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Dogs love that

Don't tell me how you know that.

Edited April 13, 2023 by StarStruck