Elon Musk supports UBI

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

And god's game has fuck all to do with survival.

God's game is 99% survival.

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura @Squeekytoy

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

God's game is 99% survival.

   God is playing survival horror.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Danioover9000

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

Isn't that just to provide a viable and plausible playground?

This whole issue is about who's allowed in the playground.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

But useful for what?

I say that the entire function of evolution is Intelligence.

[Leo Gura]

It evolves to Awaken ever deeper.

[BuddhistLover]

@Leo Gura I agree with your conservative approach to this man. Know why? because I work a full-time job, and for people to get the same as me for doing nothing but sitting at the computer or console playing Mario Kart wouldn't be fair to the people sacrificing their time out their on the job-site. The way I think about it, the only excuse they could get away with having UBI is if everyone got UBI, and then working wages would be added on top of that piece. Either everyone gets UBI, and then wages go on top of UBI, or no UBI at all. That's my thought about it. What do you think?

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

This loops us back to the degrees of awakening debate. But there can't be degrees of anything without duality.

There can and there is.

Nonduality is stupid and it is not Awakening.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Leo Gura

[universe]

@BuddhistLover

Thats what Universal Basic Income stands for. Everyone gets it (maybe only adults). So you don’t need a huge agency and can cut down on administrative costs.

[RamPhoenix]

12 hours ago, Nilsi said:

Why do you assume that a post-work world with AGI will bring out the lowest angels of our nature?

I think that liberating people from a lifetime of anxiety, stress, poor health, and poverty would be very liberating and beautiful, probably resembling Burning Man rather than The Matrix.

Evolution sure is a ruthless force - but somehow we managed to survive 70+ years of the bomb without blowing ourselves up, so there must be some good reason why the universe has kept us around (hopefully more than just serving as bootloaders for the AI overlord).

mmmmm I think the relatives of Hiroshima victims have just entered the chat.

[mr_engineer]

The core issue here is that we disagree on what a utopian world looks like. 

Some people would love to live in a world where AI does everything for them. Will that resemble Burning Man, though?! Or, will that resemble The Matrix?! 

If you put AI in charge of your life, do you think it will stop at serving you food, drink and entertainment at your doorstep?! No. As you become lazier and lazier, you will not even want to go to the door to get your delivery. AI will sense that and it will create new technology to nutritionize your body while you're sitting on your ass getting entertained. It will take your freedom to move in the process. And, just like that, you will get sucked into the pod of The Matrix. 

First things first - if you want true financial-freedom, work towards it. The lazy option only looks like freedom, it will lead to more enslavement in the long-term. This reality is too counter-intuitive for AI. And humans have to do the systems-thinking to recognize this reality and consciously design AI accordingly. Then, you get the utopia that you're talking about with AI. 

Here's what I think a true utopia is - one in which people aren't stuck in wage-slavery. One in which the system is designed by humans, for humans. And, humans have a need to contribute. If you are in a soulless, duty-based system, not only will your life feel meaningless. You are at serious risk for AI to replace you. Cuz AI is going to hack all algorithm-based rigid systems. So, what we need is an education-system that values creativity. When you do that, people's financial-identities form differently. Their values change! And, if the metaphysics behind your system isn't religious, if you are truly enlightened and intuitive yourself, they will intuitively trust your system more than the existing one. 

What is truly needed, systemically, is to call people into their authenticity, such that they step into their Life-Purpose. Then, productivity will skyrocket. And, we will be ready to combat any AI-apocalypse. Then, we can conquer AI! And then we can form a utopia. That's not founded on technology (a survivalistic society that values survival will be founded on technology, cuz that's our survival-advantage as a species over other animals), that's founded on true spirituality. This is how you actually progress up the Spiral to Green where you're able to be a New-Age hippie and live that life. 

[Hardkill]

On 4/10/2023 at 5:39 AM, Leo Gura said:

Not by sitting on your ass, collecting UBI checks, and playing Mario Kart all day.

GOD will not abide this human laziness.

Well, you know how Republicans and conservatives talk about how we need to cut down on all entitlement programs because we don’t want people to have an entitlement mentality. Plus, they keep bringing up how the Dems’ reckless federal spending has cause too many Americans to not look for job and just stay home. Joe Manchin even said that parents who get child tax credits use it to buy recreational drugs. 

Also, don’t forget the racist dog whistle Reagan used to win over the angry white men, “She has 80 names, 30 addresses, 12 Social Security cards and is collecting veterans' benefits on four non-existing deceased husbands. And she's collecting Social Security on her cards. She's got Medicaid, getting food stamps, and she is collecting welfare under each of her names. Her tax-free cash income alone is over $150,000.”

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Hardkill

[Hardkill]

On 4/10/2023 at 2:58 PM, universe said:

@BuddhistLover

Thats what Universal Basic Income stands for. Everyone gets it (maybe only adults). So you don’t need a huge agency and can cut down on administrative costs.

I think that most economists including those who are centrists and liberals have been skeptical about UBI being a good idea. 

[Danioover9000]

@mr_engineer

19 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

The core issue here is that we disagree on what a utopian world looks like. 

Some people would love to live in a world where AI does everything for them. Will that resemble Burning Man, though?! Or, will that resemble The Matrix?! 

If you put AI in charge of your life, do you think it will stop at serving you food, drink and entertainment at your doorstep?! No. As you become lazier and lazier, you will not even want to go to the door to get your delivery. AI will sense that and it will create new technology to nutritionize your body while you're sitting on your ass getting entertained. It will take your freedom to move in the process. And, just like that, you will get sucked into the pod of The Matrix. 

First things first - if you want true financial-freedom, work towards it. The lazy option only looks like freedom, it will lead to more enslavement in the long-term. This reality is too counter-intuitive for AI. And humans have to do the systems-thinking to recognize this reality and consciously design AI accordingly. Then, you get the utopia that you're talking about with AI. 

Here's what I think a true utopia is - one in which people aren't stuck in wage-slavery. One in which the system is designed by humans, for humans. And, humans have a need to contribute. If you are in a soulless, duty-based system, not only will your life feel meaningless. You are at serious risk for AI to replace you. Cuz AI is going to hack all algorithm-based rigid systems. So, what we need is an education-system that values creativity. When you do that, people's financial-identities form differently. Their values change! And, if the metaphysics behind your system isn't religious, if you are truly enlightened and intuitive yourself, they will intuitively trust your system more than the existing one. 

What is truly needed, systemically, is to call people into their authenticity, such that they step into their Life-Purpose. Then, productivity will skyrocket. And, we will be ready to combat any AI-apocalypse. Then, we can conquer AI! And then we can form a utopia. That's not founded on technology (a survivalistic society that values survival will be founded on technology, cuz that's our survival-advantage as a species over other animals), that's founded on true spirituality. This is how you actually progress up the Spiral to Green where you're able to be a New-Age hippie and live that life. 

   My Utopia is best Utopia.

   Looks like heaven.

   You can have financial freedom, whilst feeling lazy sometimes.

   No, some slave wage work is still needed, some has to handle the mail, the roof, the plumbing, the garden, the garbage, strippers ect...

   No, some people, dependent on stage of development(Stage blue-orange), cognitive(Visual/auditory learners) and moral development(Mostly for one's family and community, and country at best), personality types and traits(Logicians and those score high on close mindedness, conscientious, disagreeableness thrive in mundane, rigid schedules.), life experiences(Less travel and worldly knowledge, more interest in citizenry and being a good Samaritan), and other lines of development and ideologies indoctrinated into one from upbringing. Some thrive in what you consider boring environments, work on those soul draining works fine, which allows you to thrive elsewhere. Imagine that! You get your entrepreneurial dream because some other person has the role of soldier, police, file clerk investigator, editor and so on.

   No, we still need AI more than ever, as technological development, the internet and other AI tech, eventually AGI tech, like other lines of development are necessary for SURVIVAL of complex human life of today. It's just the genie is out of the bottle and we have to deal with it, no amount of wishing to reverse time and live the romantic times of primitive human life is satisfactory to today's human needs and wants. We just need to figure out ways to slow down this technological arms race first, to let other lines of development pick up the pace so that we stop living in the dark ages wielding country effect tech. 

[mr_engineer]

@Danioover9000 Let's say that you become an elite. Will you oppress the people below you or will you be good to them? What will your legacy be?! 

Justifying wage-slavery would not paint a very good picture for your legacy, if you became this elite who has this financial-freedom! 

[BuddhistLover]

On 4/10/2023 at 2:32 PM, RebornConsciousness said:

Would there be any wages if there was no work?

No there would not, and if there was no work there would be no money. 

[hoodrow trillson]

The tax ducking Elon Musk supports UBI?  Word 

[Buck Edwards]

It's easy to support UBI when it's not from your pocket. Elon Musk supports everything, except when it comes to himself. Look at how he runs Twitter.