Elon Musk supports UBI

[Tech36363]

[Leo Gura]

It's easy to support UBI in the abstract. The question is, who's pocket will it come out of? He will still lobby his damnedest not to pay taxes.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Nilsi]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

It's easy to support UBI in the abstract. The question is, who's pocket will it come out of? He will still lobby his damnedest not to pay taxes.

Musk would be without a job, in a world with AGI (as would any human).

We could set up some decentralized Blockhain type fund, that pays out every human once a month.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

Musk would be without a job, in a world with AGI (as would any human).

This assumes a lot. If that's true, then humans no longer have a need to exist.

If you actually believe that AI can do everything humans can, and much better, then what you believe is that humans should not and will not exist. And so there is no point in paying humans or helping humans in any way.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Danioover9000]

@Tech36363

3 hours ago, Tech36363 said:

   Ah, the flagrant multi millionaire Narcissist, lip servicing to the quire, oh wow me, look at me everyone, I'm so stage green with just saying I support UGI...as long as some else is paying UGI. Maybe the AGI might do it.???

   And this is the guy Lex Fridman looks up to? What a joke.

[Nilsi]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This assumes a lot. If that's true, then humans no longer have a need to exist.

If you actually believe that AI can do everything humans can, and much better, then what you believe is that humans should not and will not exist. And so there is no point in paying humans or helping humans in any way.

That seems to be the consensus among AI experts though.

The definition of AGI is, that it can do everything a human does, just better and way more efficient (including emotional intelligence etc.) 

I dont see why this would devalue human life. You will still be around to explore all the new possibilities and to live more aligned with your intrinisic values. 

Also, lets not kid ourselves - its only a matter of time until these machines will exceed human capabilities, so we better have a reason to stick around.

[Danioover9000]

@Nilsi

4 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

That seems to be the consensus among AI experts though.

The definition of AGI is, that it can do everything a human does, just better and way more efficient (including emotional intelligence etc.) 

I dont see why this would devalue human life. You will still be around to explore all the new possibilities and to live more aligned with your intrinisic values. 

Also, lets not kid ourselves - its only a matter of time until these machines will exceed human capabilities, so we better have a reason to stick around.

   Which is why we should be more aggressive with capping this AI technology ASAP. Like a strategic pause in it's development.

[Nilsi]

53 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Nilsi

   Which is why we should be more aggressive with capping this AI technology ASAP. Like a strategic pause in it's development.

Even if that were sensible, there is no way that it's going to happen.

Good luck convincing the most capable humans on earth to simply stop working on what they perceive to be the most important endeavor in all of human history. Even if you were to bomb or hack all the AI labs in the world, pissing off these mad scientists is a recipe for disaster.

Furthermore, we absolutely need AI to address climate change and other catastrophic risks, so there is no way out of this.

[Stovo]

With every new advance in technology predictions are made about how it will replace all human jobs, yet it never happens. 

Automated farming, the assembly line, computers, and the internet are just some examples. 

Assuming this time is different is a low probability prediction. 

[universe]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

This assumes a lot. If that's true, then humans no longer have a need to exist.

What, whales also have no job.

Does it mean all whales have no need to exist?

Who dictates which creation has a need to exist and which doesn't.

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, universe said:

What, whales also have no job.

Whales actually do have a job. They keep the ecosystem balanced.

And to the extent they don't, they will go extinct.

Quote

Does it mean all whales have no need to exist?

Pretty soon they might not.

- - - - - -

Haven't you figured out yet that the universe is very efficient? It doesn't keep stuff around unless it serves some utility in its larger scheme. As soon as you become useless to the universe, it throws you into the recycle bin and uses your atoms to make something more useful.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Nilsi]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Whales actually do have a job. They keep the ecosystem balanced.

And to the extent they don't, they will go extinct.

Pretty soon they might not.

- - - - - -

Haven't you figured out yet that the universe is very efficient? It doesn't keep stuff around unless it serves some utility in its larger scheme. As soon as you become useless to the universe, it throws you into the recycle bin and uses your atoms to make something more useful.

Humans create art, start families, appreciate a beautiful sunset, fall in love...

Is that not a valid job?

"O great star! What would your happiness be, if you had not those for whom you shine!"

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

Is that not a valid job?

If you believe an AI can do it then....

Edited April 10, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Nilsi]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you believe an AI can do it then....

An AI cant be a human, by definition.

There are always tradeoffs - we know that from developmental psychology.

A construct-aware philosopher can not experience the innocent naivete of a pre-conventional fundamentalist. 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Nilsi

[How to be wise]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you actually believe that AI can do everything humans can, and much better, then what you believe is that humans should not and will not exist. And so there is no point in paying humans or helping humans in any way.

That’s a strange conclusion to come to.

[universe]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Whales actually do have a job. They keep the ecosystem balanced.

And to the extent they don't, they will go extinct.

Pretty sure humans have crossed that line a long time ago.

If you mean in a million years time frame, then I can see how AI might make humans useless.

But in the meantime the universe might exactly wants humans to enjoy their lives without the need to fight for survival for a while... how else are we going to evolve into alien mouse in space?  

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, universe said:

how else are we going to evolve into alien mouse in space?

Not by sitting on your ass, collecting UBI checks, and playing Mario Kart all day.

GOD will not abide this human laziness.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Nilsi]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not by sitting on your ass, collecting UBI checks, and playing Mario Kart all day.

GOD will not abide this human laziness.

Why do you assume that a post-work world with AGI will bring out the lowest angels of our nature?

I think that liberating people from a lifetime of anxiety, stress, poor health, and poverty would be very liberating and beautiful, probably resembling Burning Man rather than The Matrix.

Evolution sure is a ruthless force - but somehow we managed to survive 70+ years of the bomb without blowing ourselves up, so there must be some good reason why the universe has kept us around (hopefully more than just serving as bootloaders for the AI overlord).

[LSD-Rumi]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Not by sitting on your ass, collecting UBI checks, and playing Mario Kart all day.

GOD will not abide this human laziness.

Do you really think that some civilizations go extinct becuase of AI? I try but I cannot take this possibility seriously. I mean I think God made us to evolve, not to be replaced at some point becasue we are "lazy".

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Whales actually do have a job. They keep the ecosystem balanced.

And to the extent they don't, they will go extinct.

Pretty soon they might not.

- - - - - -

Haven't you figured out yet that the universe is very efficient? It doesn't keep stuff around unless it serves some utility in its larger scheme. As soon as you become useless to the universe, it throws you into the recycle bin and uses your atoms to make something more useful.

   Will the universe recycle or destroy science?