My Problem With Heaven/Hell, the Bible, and the Church

[AndylizedAAY]

I don't like the idea of heaven or hell and here's why: Heaven is worshipping God forever which means that God is never satisfied with and that he wants to be worshipped even though he was just entitled to be God. Hell, on the other hand is just eternal suffering which is bad and separation from God just so happens to be that place. It would be more loving for God to create reincarnation or to have souls to cease to exist. Also, sin cannot be the cause for people to go to hell since other people became Christian and accepted Christ who were also sinners before becoming Christian and still are according to the Christian paradigm. Christians tried to help me understand this but the Holy Spirit didn't help me to do so while I was a Christian and after seeking God's wisdom. And I don't mean to speak badly of it, it's just a fact within the Christian paradigm.

I see that people keep listening to the church as if they don't already know what they believe. It's just an affirmation that the truth does not require. I know about the crucifixion of Jesus, that God is love, etc. Not only are there other religions that I know less about, but this affirmation when it comes to defending pushes me away that the Bible is even the word of God because it never tells me how I can become directly conscious of what it says. Even if God answers my prayers, I only imagine that the Christian God is doing so if I were to be a Christian. Maybe it's something else that just so happens to agree with the Bible, it's not direct experience.

The reason I post this is so that I can one day stand up for what I actually believe or don't believe in and that beliefs don't matter compared to awareness. I also want to feel listened to by someone out there.

[Moksha]

Trust your instinct to realize direct experience. It is supreme.

If you are early in the spiritual path, there are many insights along the inward journey to the absolute. The next best thing to direct experience is pondering the direct realizations of others. You will find this most clearly through mystics across every major religion (Christianity, Hindu, Buddhism, Muslim, Kabbalah).

You have to look deeper to see the absolute in mass writings like those collected into the bible. It is there also, but these writings can become a belief trap if you aren't careful.

Eventually though, you must let go of the teachings of others and directly realize the absolute within.

[Buck Edwards]

It would be wiser to not succumb to ideology. 

Low consciousness people are run by fear.

If they were run by love they wouldn't need religion in the first place.

The pre-rationalists bring ideas of post-rationalism (i.e. enlightenment ideals) down to their level, the pre-rationalists confuse post-rationalist ideas with religion and form a religion out of it, which is not what post-rationalism is. 

And post-rationalists also lump pre and post rationalism together because they both seem like spiritual non-tangible stuff, though they're different in actuality

Haha, it wouldn't surprise me if Jesus really just wanted to enlighten people but had to use extreme metaphors just because of the time he lived in. And even with that they got him killed. Pure dude. Imagine he would've said stuff like "You are everything and nothing", "You are a field of undefinable awareness" etc. They would've killed him a lot earlier I'd guess.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Enlightement

[Moksha]

3 hours ago, Enlightement said:

Imagine he would've said stuff like "You are everything and nothing", "You are a field of undefinable awareness" etc. They would've killed him a lot earlier I'd guess.

Crucifixion wasn't their first attempt:

‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’ At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

- John 8:56–59

[AndylizedAAY]

On 4/10/2023 at 7:08 PM, Moksha said:

Imagine he would've said stuff like "You are everything and nothing", "You are a field of undefinable awareness" etc. They would've killed him a lot earlier I'd guess.

@Enlightement I don't see where you said this except from someone quoting this.

[AndylizedAAY]

@Moksha @Enlightement Also, I have a big problem that could get me in trouble. Whenever I receive a technical difficulty escpecially while doing it, it feels like some "force" is trying to block me in some way so I get angry and curse God for it. This needs to stop. How do I stop blaming God for things that "make no sense"? If that actually means to stop thinking of God dualistically as a person with some agenda, how do I unlearn that idea about that is still at the back of my mind whenever I get triggered?

Also, Leo said in his post about pragmatism post that he tries to reach God. How is this possible if God is infinite? By realizing that God is non-dualistic? Why would Leo say that non-duality is not Awakening if it implies that you are God? Why is this considered blastphemy? Why would this be interpreted as trying to compete against God like Satan? Christians fancy their faith in the idea that God came down to our level through Jesus Christ who died for our sins even though I find common ground more important among religions. I would say that I do believe in the resurrection except I don't know where Jesus ascended to afterwards and that he resurrected because he was deeply conscious of the nature of death. It could still just be a higher dimension. Christians try to give all of the counter arguments they could think of against the arguments of other people that would support the resurrection of Jesus. Even if that did happen, it would be a Christian bias to say that this is the ultimate miracle because the ultimate miracle is existance itself. I don't see the resurrection of Jesus as any more miraculous than Muhammed splitting the moon for example.

Edited April 14, 2023 by AndylizedAAY
I wanted to mention what I find important among religions.

[Moksha]

 @AndylizedAAY Realize that the "force" blocking you is the absolute within. Rather than getting angry at yourself (i.e., the absolute) for being blocked, contemplate why you appear to be blocking yourself. Are you actually being blocked, and if so is it possible that a different path will serve you better? Maybe the reason for the block is to teach you how to transcend being blocked.

Regardless, resisting the block will only further entrap you. The answer to every phenomenal event is never resistance, but submission. This doesn't mean being a doormat, or that responses (as opposed to reactions) aren't appropriate. All it means is accepting the reality of what is happening right now, and allowing its energy to flow through you and refine you, instead of fighting against it. There is so much unnecessary suffering from resistance, which only further increases suffering.

It is easier to do this after you have awakened, since you are able to stabilize awareness within the absolute, rather than being completely abducted by events. Even before awakening though, you can begin practicing this. Do it with small things, like being stuck behind a slow moving car on the freeway. When you successfully allow the energy to pass through you, it will be easier with more energetic events.

Remember that Jesus taught the Kingdom of Heaven is within. Reaching god is not an external event, but a direct internal realization.

[AndylizedAAY]

19 hours ago, Moksha said:

Remember that Jesus taught the Kingdom of Heaven is within. Reaching god is not an external event, but a direct internal realization.

@Moksha Is the Kingdom of Heaven the same with the absolute and that they are both within? What makes heaven? Awakening? What would be the Kingdom of Hell?

Edited April 15, 2023 by AndylizedAAY
I wanted to ask about the Kingdom of Hell.

[Moksha]

18 minutes ago, AndylizedAAY said:

@Moksha Is the Kingdom of Heaven the same with the absolute and that they are both within? What makes heaven? Awakening? What would be the Kingdom of Hell?

Heaven and hell are dualities of the absolute within the dream. Direct realization of itself is heaven, which dissolves boundaries and is unconditional love. Misidentification of itself is hell, which imagines boundaries and is suffering caused by imposing conditions on the cosmos.

Beyond the cosmos there is no heaven or hell, only the silent mystery of absolute reality.

[AndylizedAAY]

@Moksha Why does the Bible give visual descriptions of heaven if it is unconditional love but also say that the Kingdom of Heaven is within? How does the duality of literal and metaphorical collapse? I wish that the church talks about all of this, but it doesn't. It just talks about why pray, how to, Jesus died for our sins, etc. Being mechanical in singing is also not a form of worship because it's the opposite of being conscious and yet I have to go to church. 

[Moksha]

7 hours ago, AndylizedAAY said:

@Moksha Why does the Bible give visual descriptions of heaven if it is unconditional love but also say that the Kingdom of Heaven is within? How does the duality of literal and metaphorical collapse? I wish that the church talks about all of this, but it doesn't. It just talks about why pray, how to, Jesus died for our sins, etc. Being mechanical in singing is also not a form of worship because it's the opposite of being conscious and yet I have to go to church. 

Jesus hinted that there was deeper meaning beyond his words. He fed them milk, because they weren't ready yet for meat. Even the whisper of truth was judged as blasphemy by the pharisees and sadducees. Only the poor in spirit who realized themselves as such were willing to listen.

The Mosaic law was given to humanity in its infancy. Their god was seen as jealous and vengeful. Jesus taught them love and they killed him for it.

Parables are deeper than teachings because they symbolize truth, without entangling people in beliefs. They teach at the level of the listener. The immature mind only enjoys the story of a wise man building his house on the rock, while the clear mind sees itself in the meaning beyond the words.