Question regarding objective reality

[davecraw]

Just to be clear let me define the terms I'm using.

 

By exist I mean:

    1. In a casual process

 

By objective reality I mean:

    1. That which exists

        and

    2. That which is not an experience (or part of an experience).

 

By your experience I mean:

    1. The thing that you are aware of

 

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Do you think my post exists beyond your experience? 

Why or why not?

 

Edited April 8, 2023 by davecraw

[Moksha]

You clearly defined objectivity. How do you define "your experience"?

[davecraw]

8 minutes ago, Moksha said:

You clearly defined objectivity. How do you define "your experience"?

Thanks for bringing that up. I mean the thing you are aware of.

Edited April 8, 2023 by davecraw

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, davecraw said:

Thanks for bringing that up. I mean the thing you are aware of.

Notice that no matter how you slice it, my post exists within your experience.  Just as your post exists within mine. 

Furthermore, the thought or question as to whether it exists outside, also exists inside.   

Edited April 8, 2023 by Inliytened1

[davecraw]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

Notice that no matter how you slice it, my post exists within your experience.  Just as your post exists within mine. 

What about when you aren't looking at my post?

[Inliytened1]

Just now, davecraw said:

What about when you aren't looking at my post?

That very inquiry exists within your experience. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by Inliytened1

[davecraw]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

That very inquiry exists within your experience. 

What does that have to do with whether my post exists when no one is looking at it?

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, davecraw said:

What does that have to do with whether my post exists when no one is looking at it?

It has everything to do with it.  If you look.  But no one wants to look.  You see, you can't escape the fact that everything hinges on your own conscioisness.   EVERYTHING.  

[r0ckyreed]

1 minute ago, davecraw said:

What does that have to do with whether my post exists when no one is looking at it?

Everything you say exists outside of your experience is something you are experiencing in your experience. 

Also the idea of other people is just an idea with experience. You have never proven that other people exist. You don’t even know if Inliytened has a separate experience viewing your post. Even that idea is an idea you are having in your consciousness. The idea that the earth is round is an idea in your experience.

[davecraw]

15 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

It has everything to do with it.  If you look.  But no one wants to look.  You see, you can't escape the fact that everything hinges on your own conscioisness.   EVERYTHING.  

That's not what I'm getting at. I'm asking whether things exist that I'm unaware of.

Edited April 8, 2023 by davecraw

[davecraw]

14 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Everything you say exists outside of your experience is something you are experiencing in your experience. 

Also the idea of other people is just an idea with experience. You have never proven that other people exist. You don’t even know if Inliytened has a separate experience viewing your post. Even that idea is an idea you are having in your consciousness. The idea that the earth is round is an idea in your experience.

I'm referring to things that aren't part of my experience such as this post when I'm not looking at it. Does it exist then? If not why?

Edited April 8, 2023 by davecraw

[Inliytened1]

12 minutes ago, davecraw said:

That's not what I'm getting at. I'm asking whether things exist that I'm unaware of.

Did you listen to Leo's what is Perception video?  What does it mean for a brick to exist with no one around?  It radically redefines what it means to exist.  Because to exist it has to have someone conscious of it.   Right?  Isn't that what it means for a brick to exist at all?

But what if it didn't require a someone to be conscious of it?  What if it was just WAS Consciousness  

Edited April 8, 2023 by Inliytened1

[davecraw]

25 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Did you listen to Leo's what is Perception video?  What does it mean for a brick to exist with no one around?  It radically redefines what it means to exist.  Because to exist it has to have someone conscious of it.   Right?  Isn't that what it means for a brick to exist at all?

But what if it didn't require a someone to be conscious of it?  What if it was just WAS Consciousness  

That's not how I define exist. In my view to exist is to be part of a casual process.  

Edited April 8, 2023 by davecraw

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, davecraw said:

Thanks for bringing that up. I mean the thing you are aware of.

Great, now please define what you mean by "you".

[davecraw]

1 minute ago, Moksha said:

Great, now please define what you mean by "you".

You are the one responding to me. I am the one asking you the question.

[Moksha]

1 minute ago, davecraw said:

You are the one responding to me. I am the one asking you the question.

By that definition, which is the relative, of course things exist outside of your awareness. The person creates its own cosmos through its senses, perceptions, thoughts, feelings, and actions, but so does every other person.

The absolute is beyond definition, and nothing exists outside of its awareness. It is who you actually are, which is why I asked for clarification.

[davecraw]

2 minutes ago, Moksha said:

By that definition, which is the relative, of course things exist outside of your awareness. The person creates its own cosmos through its senses, perceptions, thoughts, feelings, and actions, but so does every other person.

The absolute is beyond definition, and nothing exists outside of its awareness. It is who you actually are, which is why I asked for clarification.

So you don't think I'm the one responding to you?

[Moksha]

6 minutes ago, davecraw said:

So you don't think I'm the one responding to you?

Relatively, you are responding to me. Absolutely, you are one expression of yourself responding to another expression of the same absolute self. It is all the absolute, in apparently different forms and states of self-awareness.

[davecraw]

10 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Relatively, you are responding to me. Absolutely, you are one expression of yourself responding to another expression of the same absolute self. It is all the absolute, in apparently different forms and states of self-awareness.

What do you mean by expression? Why do you equate me with what I'm expressing (this post). I am not my post as far as I can tell. I claim that becuase my post doesn't type itself like I do.

Edited April 8, 2023 by davecraw

[Inliytened1]

55 minutes ago, davecraw said:

That's not how I define exist. In my view to exist is to be part of a casual process.  

What does it mean for a tree to make a sound if you don't hear it?  You can hand wave it off and say it is just beyond our experience and we cant know...but this is false - and just a hand wave...you can actually directly discover that this is false and a thought to mask what is really going on.   What if your consciousness was all there is?  Could it EVEN be possible?  So... again...the ground outside your door - outside of your perception.   How can it exist without you thinking about it right now?  These are things you have to instinctively intuit are wrong with materialism.  If you don't intuit it there is pretty much no helping you out of materialism.  Only maybe a ton of drugs.  

Edited April 9, 2023 by Inliytened1