My position on incest

[zurew]

6 hours ago, How to be wise said:

Not wanting to give birth to children ≠ not having children. What happens when she is pregnant and abortion isn’t possible? 

So are you okay with incest instances, where there is no chance of anyone getting pregnant - if not - whats your arugment against it?

Edited April 5, 2023 by zurew

[mmKay]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What happens if your impregnate the child you had with your own mother?

Does that tear a hole in the fabric of space-time? Does it come out with hooves?

Turns out it's the opposite of a genetic freak

 

[LSD-Rumi]

9 hours ago, How to be wise said:

Not wanting to give birth to children ≠ not having children. What happens when she is pregnant and abortion isn’t possible? 

Shoot it in the head when it comes out, lol.

You are jumping to very unlikely situations because you don't want to admit that there is literally nothing wrong with incest sex. To justify your position you keep insisting on incest birth and attach it to incest sex as if they were a single phenomenon.

and Again, one line of incest birth doesn't produce retarded babies. It should have been going for multiple generations.

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by LSD-Rumi

[Israfil]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Xenophilia. You don't know what sex is till you impregnate a xenomorph.

 

I'd love to hit some alienussy.

[trenton]

Update:

I did some writing with the intention of sharing it with my family. My back, shoulders, and neck are less tense then it previously was and it feels good. I previously had some problems with getting an erection, but it is starting to get easier again. I could masturbate, but I don't need to.

I am now hyper active and I struggle to sit down and focus. I noticed that I had also been suppressing my inner child. I am actually very emotionally sensitive and I feel tempted to use it toward selfish ends by being a crybaby to get what I want. I was afraid of this because I know there are people who use the excuse of autism to try to get away with selfishness, and the thought of doing that terrified me. I would be hurting other people in the process.

I noticed that my suicidal thoughts were simply a cover for guilt. I never acted on the belief that I hated myself because deep down I love myself and I don't want myself to do something that I would regret. The facade of self hatred has lifted along with my suicidal thoughts. If a person discovers that suicidal thoughts are masking guilt, then this may trigger the insight that you actually love yourself. This is when the suicidal thoughts let go of you.

Furthermore, I have a cousin who is a transgender male. I don't want to be rude so I use the pronouns he/him. Sometimes I feel conflicted because I see feminine qualities in his face and in his voice. I start thinking like he is she. I then start to think that he is cute. There is a slight sexual desire resulting from this like with my sister.

Although I am hyper active, waking up early, and maintaining this energy throughout the day, I am not assuming it is all over. There is probably more to what will happen to me after this episode of hyper activity. I slept easily last night, but woke up around 4.

I think a helpful technique I started doing is writing out prayers. It sounds religious, but I what I am doing is writing out what I want. I wrote how who I wanted to be and how I wanted to change as well as what I wanted for my family and for the world. It is about becoming happier in my body and mind it is working.

Of course there is a bunch of minor trauma, but I won't post it here.

Is anybody familiar with the phenomenon I'm experiencing? What should I expect in this process? 

[Leo Gura]

@trenton Do this exercise:

https://www.actualized.org/articles/how-to-forgive-anyone-who-hurt-you

[trenton]

@Leo Gura At the moment I am laughing my ass off because of how confused my penis is over my transgender male cousin. I'll do the exercise anyway though. If I remember correctly, you eventually start talking about how if someone experienced non-dual states of consciousness, then you realize that nobody hurt you. Psychologically, you can heal the wounds somewhat by seeing the similarities we have in others, but this is far removed from realizing all is one. I know not to abuse the exercises like a woman in an abusive relationship.

[Leo Gura]

@trenton Are you dating? Are you seeing girls? Or are you just cooped up at home?

[trenton]

@Leo Gura I am still cooped up at home, so it probably isn't over yet. I have been too uncomfortable with watching the how to get laid series. I never finished episode one. I still don't have my own house and I am very uncomfortable when trying to approach girls. So far I have never attempted to flirt with any girl in life. When I tried to push myself to approach a girl I was paralyzed by anxiety and didn't make it passed "hi" before I nervously made weird clicking noises with my mouth and walked away. If my family knows about all of this stuff, then maybe they would be fine with me dating in place of everything discussed in thread.

[trenton]

Before I watch the forgiveness video, I will note that a suicidal thought popped up for a second again as I started thinking about everything I would have to do in order to get a better job, get my own house, and ultimately get a girlfriend. A fleeting sense of hopelessness was felt for a moment.

[Topspin715]

taboo against incest is a cultural universal in that maybe every culture has independently decided that it is a very undesirable behavior.  Not only does it increase risk of rare genetic illness, but it is potentially very destabilizing to the family structure in any society.  It is theoretically possible for two siblings to become involved romantically or sexually and live healthy lives based on a sturdy relationship if they don't have children or maybe their children turn out fine, but at a societal level it is extremely risky to normalize that kind of behavior because the net effect on the entire group will likely be extremely bad.

[Bando]

@mmKay Insightful video, fuck some people really have no chance, we can debate on the morality of incest but when you get to shit like this it just makes my stomach turn

[trenton]

@Leo Gura anyway, I did the exercise. I'm exhausted, so I'll explain the results tomorrow.

[Arthogaan]

Bonobos, the closest primates to humans when it comes to social behaviour and sexual behaviour only avoid son-mother sex:

From wikipedia:

"Bonobos do not form permanent monogamous sexual relationships with individual partners. They also do not seem to discriminate in their sexual behavior by sex or age, with the possible exception of abstaining from sexual activity between mothers and their adult sons. When bonobos come upon a new food source or feeding ground, the increased excitement will usually lead to communal sexual activity, presumably decreasing tension and encouraging peaceful feeding."

[Vrubel]

15 hours ago, trenton said:

I still don't have my own house

This is your most fundamental issue, Living with your parents as a young man is oppressive as hell. This may only work if you have a strong focus on getting a diploma but other than that it will stifle your development in all other fields. Also of all the women you see most are your family members so... yeah... no wonder. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Vrubel

[trenton]

Update: it was not over and still isn't.

I did the exercise in forgiveness. It was emotionally exhausting. I cried, wet myself a bit, and eventually tasted dead skin from my mouth which was gross. I started crying in the morning again. I plan on doing the exercise again, but needed a break. I picked up more tissues from the super market, so I should be fine.

All my life I have been trying to love myself, but I couldn't do it. I was too weak and afraid. I punished myself for years believing that I did not deserve to be loved because I am too weak to love the ignorant 8 year old. I felt unlovable.

I noticed my inability to love myself. I did my best to love my inability to love myself. This made me cry a lot. the hardest thing to love is our own selfishness. I'll spare the rest of the details.

I just feel cold. I want warmth. I will lay down in bed before I do the exercise again.

@Leo Gura thank you

[Loving Radiance]

@trenton I am happy for you that this transformation started with you making this thread! Amazing to see.

[trenton]

Update:

I am ready to try the exercise again. I already am crying. I feel very bad. Because of me, my sister had to live with this. I don't know how much I hurt her. I'm sorry for hurting my sister this deeply for the rest of her life. It makes me hate myself.

Part of me doesn't want to go through this again, but I have nothing better to do. I want to be strong and love myself. I feel like I am too weak to love myself, but I will try anyway.

[trenton]

I know I was just an ignorant child who didn't mean to hurt my sister, but I feel like I don't deserve to be forgiven. I have a lot of resistance to continuing the exercise. I felt like I didn't deserve to be loved. I think my sister deserves to be loved, but I don't deserve to be forgiven. 

I don't know when I will force myself to do the exercise again. I feel like when I do these exercises and listen to these videos, they are only for me. 

I think I have to take some kind of action before I can continue forgiving myself. I think I need to apologize to my sister for inadvertently traumatizing her for the rest of her life. She deserves to be loved and I cannot forgive myself until the weight of my actions are lifted off of her.

 "I want to die" was a thought that flicked through my mind for a second. I note these thoughts when they happen.

[trenton]

Update:

I talked with my sister and my mom. Apparently, my sister was so young that it is hard for her to remember the event. Mom vaguely remembers it.

I thought I was around 7 or 8, but I might have been 6, I don't remember. Maybe my sister was 4, but I don't know how many months. I just don't remember how old we were.

I wanted to help Jordan heal before I could forgive myself. Jordan didn't seem upset at all. She and mom were more upset because of how upset I seemed. I told them that I felt like I didn't deserve to be loved.

I put my hands over my face and started crying. This has been making me feel horrible forever. It was probably Jordan who was rubbing my back, but I didn't look. They felt bad not because of the event, but because I felt horrible all this time and they didn't know how hurt I was.

Mom told me to say three good things about myself. The first one was that I loved Jordan because she deserved to be loved. The second was that I am fundamentally good and when I hurt people it is inadvertently. The third one is that I choose truth over self deception, the first example being that I refused to call this a nightmare, and the second being that I deserve to be loved.

Mom asked if there was anything else I needed to talk about. She asked if I ever did it again or wanted to. For a moment I thought about saying I wanted to have sex with my sisters. I was conflicted inside because I couldn't tell if I really wanted to have sex with them or not. In the moment I was too weak to come out and say I want to have sex with my sisters.

I told mom that for a moment I just thought about having sex with Jordan. Mom and Jordan said that it was because of the memory we just discussed, but I had doubts.

Eventually, mom left to make dinner. I stayed upstairs with Jordan as we watched a streamer play chess. I analyzed the game as they went along. I explained to Jordan my calculations and thinking methods along the way. White could have checkmated black much more easily. I told Jordan that weaker players have this tendency to just grab material immediately when they could end the game with checkmate. In the game, white just took the black queen instead of just killing the king. When I look at the board I intuitively look for checkmate patterns when attacking the king. Otherwise the game drags on and on when you could just rip off the bandaid. Jordan often struggles with finding checkmate even when she is clearly winning. I told her that she could just study some typical endgame mating nets. These patterns are second nature to me. During the game I started frowning and felt like crying again.

I notice this beginner tendency in myself, but in a different form. When I see an aggressive or promising move, I often fail to consider more powerful alternatives. This is why I often get a good position, but I fail to convert and I get a draw against strong resistance. In fact it ends up taking more mental effort when you don't put in the extra effort up front to find a more powerful alternative. Paradoxically, I often need to trust my intuition and playing alternatives often leads me astray.

After the game was over and white finally won, I asked Jordan if she had any games. We started looking at games, but then I started thinking about having sex with her again. I felt movement in my penis and was worried that I would violate my sister. I felt too scared to stay, so I wanted to leave. I was about to tell mom that I wanted to have sex with my sisters, but she was busy cooking dinner and the dog was back in. It barks at me a lot and it is loud.

I decided to leave and eat at the other house. I understood that today I was too weak to tell the full truth.

I got home and ate some BLTs. I didn't eat a lot, but I felt stuffed again and had a hard time eating. I've been losing my appetite.

Finally, I went back to my room. I texted mom about my sexual feelings toward my sisters and my suicidal thoughts. She told me not to tell my sisters yet, because it would make us both very uncomfortable. She texted back the following article. I read through it and a lot of it describes me exactly. 

https://www.treatmyocd.com/what-is-ocd/common-fears/fear-of-incest-ocd

I am diagnosed with ocd. It worsened with bullying at school as other kids were stealing from me, punching me, sexually harassing me, one girl who grabbed my penis twice, writing fa* on my jacket, stealing my homework and lunch, some girls following me around, and a boy who made me very uncomfortable at the urinal and I have been afraid to use the urinal ever since. I use the stall whenever I can. I have a lot of suicidal thoughts that I never act on and I constantly think I'm a horrible person even though I know it isn't true. I struggle with uncertainty a lot. I am worried that I will hurt other people. I want to be a good person, but I am scared of any impulse to be selfish or hurt someone. The thought of killing myself came back.

Anyway, I should probably do the exercise again, but I'm tired and I have work tomorrow.  I know I still need to cry, but I'm exhausted.

In any case I love myself whether in strength or in weakness.