Is Religion More Efficient?

[Venus]

I don't follow a religion but hang around with many Christians. It's not like they go very deep into it like actualized.org does (just the conventional church every sunday and friends with the same views) but to me, it seems they have a greater satisfaction with life and are more at ease than I feel; the sort of comfort in life that I feel I'm aiming for with personal development, yet they aren't doing any personal development really.

So why do they seem to have these results without putting in the work? Could it just be it seems this way because I can't see what they're like on the inside, or is there there actually a few key things that happen to be in just the right place because of how religion works and what it does for someone?

(This is assuming there isn't a/the God they believe in)

[Venus]

@see_on_see then why do they think their lives are more fruitful than non believers?

Edited March 12, 2017 by Venus

[cirkussmile]

I think it's a good question. I've also notice this. Some seem to have a problem free life and are thankful, but then again, nobody knows. At least they seems to have smaller egos than others. 

[Prabhaker]

2 hours ago, Venus said:

it seems they have a greater satisfaction with life and are more at ease than I feel

God is non-existential, but it is a good consolation. It used to fill people's interior, although it is a lie. But even a lie, repeated thousands and thousands of times for millennia, becomes almost a truth. God has been a great consolation to people in their fear, in their dread, in their awareness of old age and death, and beyond – the unknown darkness.Lies can console you. 

[99th_monkey]

what your seeing is a projection, something you deeply desire and seeing it in others and creating a separation. a goal. something to strive for. both the goal, and not having achieved that goal, is created by you.

[Nahm]

 Religion brings the ups of feeling grateful and praying for change in things we don't understand, "Give it to God" - and the downs of the deeper issues of the heaven hell complex, knowing we could learn and do something about the things we don't understand, and ultimately the judgment complex.  Religion requires that one accepts the imaginary third party measuring stick of morals (God as a man type thinker) and that one assumes the 'known' repercussions  of not following God's word. So Christians may seem easier going, lighter, but deeper within they have some serious belief issues that are preventing them from living more fully. 

A weird thing I've noticed...if you ask a Christian person if they are Christian, they will say yes with a tone of "of course I'm a good person". But if you ask them if they believe in heaven and hell, that all the Muslims, Buddhists, etc are going to spend eternity in hell, they start to waiver. Where I live, if you ask them if they are homophobic, they say " well, I know what the church says but I don't think it's wrong to be gay". If you ask them if they treat their body as the temple, if they judge people, etc etc, they start to see that they don't really agree with what it actually means to biblically be a Christian.

The real interesting thing, imo, is when you ask a Christian "What does it mean to be a Christian", they typically answer "to accept Jesus as your lord and savior". If you ask, savior for what, save you from what? They answer "eternal damnation". If you say "The same person / people who told you there is a hell, if you want to avoid that hell you must do / think as we say, and that is the only way" they do start to question the whole complex.

[Evilwave Heddy]

It's an illusion...a facade.  If only you weren't curios enough to question christianity and its legitimatness, then you could be just like your friends and their limited beliefs.

[Psychonaut]

Christianity is very efficient. From the millions that have followed it 1 has become enlightened. That is Jesus.

[Bob84]

6 hours ago, Venus said:

@see_on_see then why do they think their lives are more fruitful than non believers?

You are what you believe yourself to be (as far as the ego is consernd). 

[Nahm]

@Psychonaut That would be true about Jews, not Christians. There is no enlightened Christian.

[Venus]

@see_on_see what exactly do you mean by 'justify'? Do you mean prove to themselves that their religion is beneficial and right?

@Prabhaker  I've thought similarly. It seems like that feeling of getting unconditional love from the 'creator of the universe' creates a great relieving feeling (for obvious reasons), but surely there's got to be more to it than just a relief because of a belief? That wouldn't feel like love surely? Where do they feel the love from?

@99th_monkey so like envy? I feel down around them because I want their happiness? I don't think I understand

@Nahm

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

So Christians may seem easier going, lighter, but deeper within they have some serious belief issues that are preventing them from living more fully.

I totally agree. But on the questioning thing, it really depends on the ones you ask because some do have some complex structures and really think they know what they're talking about. But even then they can all get a little shaken and start thinking, with the right sort of questions, which is good.

@Evilwave Heddy we all have our own limiting beliefs. Don't hate just because your beliefs makes others' look obviously foolish. Isn't that just how they'd be thinking of you as well?

@Psychonaut lol yeah. But that was never what they thought their goal was. Dying and getting into heaven was, so as far as we know, it could be  a 100% success rate. We can't tell. That's why it's so efficient.

@Bob84 "Seek and ye shall find." - Matthew 7:7. Sometimes I feel like the Bible itself could teach Christians where they're going wrong by being Christian  

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, Venus said:

It seems like that feeling of getting unconditional love from the 'creator of the universe' creates a great relieving feeling (for obvious reasons), but surely there's got to be more to it than just a relief because of a belief? That wouldn't feel like love surely? Where do they feel the love from?

There are two types of religions in the world: prayer oriented religions and meditation oriented religions. Christianity, Judaism, Mohammedanism, Hinduism – these are prayer oriented religions. Jainism, Buddhism, Taoism – these are meditation oriented religions.

For a prayer oriented religion the concept of a personal God is needed – to relate to. For meditation oriented religions God is a useless hypothesis; it can be discarded easily into the dustbin. It is not needed.

You have an imaginary conception of a person there, somewhere. You talk. You confess your sins, you ask his forgiveness. You pray. Good, good for the heart. It helps a little bit. You feel more unburdened, you feel light. Maybe there is a God, maybe not – that’s not the point. But believing there is a God, you can unburden yourself, you can surrender yourself, it becomes easier for you. The hypothesis is helpful.

People who are reason oriented, head oriented, they become – if they are interested in religion – they become theologians. They write theories about God, they talk about God.

Then the second layer of your being: love, heart. If a man is religious love becomes prayer, prayer becomes love. They remain better than ordinary worldly people, but still not absolutely other worldly, they remain in the middle. Good as far as it goes, but not enough.

[Prabhaker]

14 minutes ago, John Flores said:

I am waiting for the day when the church appoints me as their leader.

Whenever I quoted Jesus, you said , "I don't like this kind of stuff", now you want to become next prophet of Christianity, how this miracle happened ? 

[Prabhaker]

2 minutes ago, John Flores said:

A lot of the stuff about Jesus is made up nonsense

If you tell this in Vatican, you may be crucified, are you ready ?  

[Bob84]

@Venus every ego has different beliefs. Religion in a sense is a group that agrees on a set of beliefs (regardless on then disagreeing all the time ).

Beliefs should always be subject to change (openmindedness). The one constant in this reality is that all changes except for change itself.

[h inandout]

17 hours ago, Venus said:

So why do they seem to have these results without putting in the work?

Oh hey, I've been wondering about all this too!  

Having been raised by hybrid atheist/christianish parents, and never going to church, I never felt in line with the enthusiasm some people experience from their church experiences.  That's cool, because I've definitely been excited about things that other people don't understand about me.  But yes, sometimes I've noticed that church goers might have an easier time in life without really having to go through as much struggle.  I think this is in part due to their faith, or rather relative lack of self-doubt, and in part just due to old fashioned old-boys network kinda knowledge and connections.  It's kind of a privilege to be faithful... and yet I still don't feel like going to church or partaking of the same flavor of christian enthusiasm.  I do however, crave this idea of being blessed.  I got reikied recently, and it really did feel like the child in me was being allowed to confidently step into a deeper sense of wonder.  It was almost like a long-lost right of passage.

[Vercingetorix]

Don't you see that the only way to get out of the illusion is to suffer? Why will you otherwise want to get out? Embrace your suffering because it is your motivation to get out.

Every suffering begin with a story

Of course there are many exceptions, but In general, Christians are stuck In a lower development stage. They suffer less because they are gullible and believe in all the lies they are told, and it protect them, their monkey mind doesn't have to struggle with uncertainties, they have answers so the mind is quieter. But one day they will realise it doesn't make any sense, their paradigm doesn't fit reality, and they will get out of their sheltered prison...  Then they will be free and their mind will go crazy like ours, and they will create stories,  and they will believe those stories and those stories will crumble and they will suffer like us.  And when they will suffer enough they may decide that it is enough, time to get out of it. Time to wake up. Time to enjoy reality, the present moment, the only thing we truly have.

So I say, bless the suffering in your life, this is your way out.  back home.

 

Edited March 13, 2017 by Vercingetorix

[Arman]

19 hours ago, Venus said:

(This is assuming there isn't a/the God they believe in)

you know what they say about assumptions, don't you? 

[Venus]

@Arman tell me.

[Nahm]

Learning brings clarity. Pain is inescapable but suffering is illusory.