How to tell the difference between real vs fake growth?

[integral]

When a negative emotion comes up I just stop my self from having it because its non-sense I created it.

When doubt comes up I stop doubting because its non-sense I created it.

When a perspective emerges depicting some story of my life I stop having it because its non-sense I created it.

When resisting I stop resisting.

When loving I love more.

Ill create every circumstance.

I'm done playing kids games with myself.

I am the master of now. 

Edited March 31, 2023 by integral

[Consept]

29 minutes ago, integral said:

When a negative emotion comes up I just stop my self from having it because its non-sense I created it.

I hear what youre saying but i also disagree a little, if you have a negative emotion I dont think 'stopping it' is growth, i think letting it be there and not even labelling it, almost like its just background noise. So not getting lost in it but also having complete acceptance of it if that makes sense 

[integral]

7 minutes ago, Consept said:

I hear what youre saying but i also disagree a little, if you have a negative emotion I dont think 'stopping it' is growth, i think letting it be there and not even labelling it, almost like its just background noise. So not getting lost in it but also having complete acceptance of it if that makes sense 

Is that really possible? Ill experiment with this. I have a very easy ability to create any emotion I choose by changing to any perspective I choose, So i figured why would I get stuck/gripped by one? 

The negative framing is just the conditioned first perspective that emerged, its not any more true then any other?

So this post was a resolve to stop being a victim to my own creation. 

Edited March 31, 2023 by integral

[Kksd74628]

@integral

You gotta listem em emotions so you accept what your body is trying to tell. The only way to grow is by total self mastery, which is that you know yourself 100%. Of course if hard emotions come when you can't handle them at the moment you could use the skill of ignoring them, but that's never permanent fix. The same way thoughts won't dissapear from your mind when you meditate unless you let them arrive, be and finally go.

With love -joNi- <3 

[Thought Art]

@integral It’s okay to fully feel the full range of human emotions as well. 

 

I don’t have much time right now to go into this. But, some books that come to mind are

The Tao of Fully Feeling by Pete Walker

Loving What Is - Byron Katie 

Besides that really,

Can you define/ describe what you mean by growth in this context? What is growth, and what would it mean to be grown?

[Nemra]

@integral

That all works if your honest to yourself.

The interesting thing is that only you can really know.

Edited March 31, 2023 by Understander

[Israfil]

2 hours ago, integral said:

Is that really possible? Ill experiment with this. I have a very easy ability to create any emotion I choose by changing to any perspective I choose, So i figured why would I get stuck/gripped by one? 

The negative framing is just the conditioned first perspective that emerged, its not any more true then any other?

So this post was a resolve to stop being a victim to my own creation. 

I just did it today. Bought a new hard case for my bass. The way it greeted me for the first time was a 2-inch fall straight into my big toe. I felt pain for 5 minutes without wishing it to stop. I can feel anger, stress, fear, or shame without letting it affect my behavior. It's a matter of practice. I'm not perfect, of course, but I can live with negative emotions without suppressing them for the most part..

[integral]

2 hours ago, Thought Art said:

Can you define/ describe what you mean by growth in this context? What is growth, and what would it mean to be grown?

At some point to grow out of and no longer get lost in the stories and emotions created by expectations. 

3 hours ago, Kksd74628 said:

@integral

You gotta listem em emotions so you accept what your body is trying to tell. The only way to grow is by total self mastery, which is that you know yourself 100%. Of course if hard emotions come when you can't handle them at the moment you could use the skill of ignoring them, but that's never permanent fix. The same way thoughts won't dissapear from your mind when you meditate unless you let them arrive, be and finally go.

With love -joNi- <3 

Thats my experience of it as well, but im at the point now that I want to let these stories go. I view it as if ive been playing victim with all these mind stories. Why does every story need to be taken so seriously? 

Edited March 31, 2023 by integral

[Kksd74628]

@integral

Thought of "I want to eat" goes away when you've eaten enough. You just can't let go important stuff without integrating it really. These are things that you can't really cheat on. You're either ready or not and that's it. Self-development takes time and that's why it is so fruitful in the end and while you're in the path. Keep grinding brother!

[UnbornTao]

We'd first have to get clear on what growth is. 

[Thought Art]

@integral I still feel like I need more detail from from you as to what that means. 

[integral]

31 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@integral I still feel like I need more detail from from you as to what that means. 

I don't believe in any of my thoughts or perceptions or stories that this character identifies with, it all seems like non-sense that immaturely captivates me on a daily bases.

A grown up stops believing in the tooth fairy? lol

If i feel bad about some event that happened to me years ago, its absurd, its complete imagination. 

Edited March 31, 2023 by integral

[integral]

1 hour ago, Kksd74628 said:

Thought of "I want to eat" goes away when you've eaten enough. You just can't let go important stuff without integrating it really. These are things that you can't really cheat on. You're either ready or not and that's it. Self-development takes time and that's why it is so fruitful in the end and while you're in the path. Keep grinding brother!

That makes sense, but maybe physics and metaphysics can be handled differently?

Im not going to allow this character for another second to get lost in this story.

Ive been fooled my entire life! I refuse to be fooled by any of this anymore. 

Edited March 31, 2023 by integral

[Thought Art]

2 hours ago, integral said:

I don't believe in any of my thoughts or perceptions or stories that this character identifies with, it all seems like non-sense that immaturely captivates me on a daily bases.

A grown up stops believing in the tooth fairy? lol

If i feel bad about some event that happened to me years ago, its absurd, its complete imagination. 

You know, you have a point. Our thoughts, memories and stories are constructions. But, at the same time you are a human. 
 

I really think the Tao of Fully Feeling book will open your mind to see something more which will grow you more. He talks about going through what you are right now, and how it was a trap. 
 

I personally have a different idea of growth in this context. It’s more for me, of a taking full responsibility for these stories, thoughts and feelings. 
 

The thoughts and feelings, though constructs…. If you are experiencing them they are real. You have a human psyche. You aren’t going to unidentify your way out of thinking about the past, or feeling some negative emotions. 
 

I realized that a lot of our emotions are stored in not just our brain, but our body. They are deep, and physiological which is why Qigong is a big part of my work… and then, journaling practices, and reading self help is another big pillar in my work and my “Growth”. 
 

Because I realize that I am a construct, even as a human not to mention my memories and story, etc then the real question is… as a human psyche how do I Grow? For me, it’s about feeling more, journaling, reading books like I’ve suggested here, studying rational cognitive behavioural therapy, practicing Holden Qigong, psychedelics, etc. 
 

To grow in this regard is to work with the construction. To simply not identify with it and expecting it to go away is like… no longer identifying with being obese… okay, sure you aren’t your body. But, the obesity is still there and it’s time to do some exercises. 
 

Some of these spiritual teachings like not identifying with thoughts etc is a useful aspect, or lens of this growth we are wanting to have. But, realistically they are far to partial and limited. Human psychology and physiology is far more complex. True healing, true growth… requires deeply feeling. 
 

You may be in a trap of spiritual bypassing. Just, be wary and take care ?. You will figure it out. 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

@integral I personally think there is an even deeper maturity that I have discovered which is…. Though I realize I’m a construct, I am a construct. For now I am in this finite form, with a finite mind, finite story. I know it’s all a construct. I don’t identify with anything. 
 

But, this construct is the ocean I swim in. 
 

David Richo has a good book as well, it’s called “When the Past is Present”. What you deal with when things from the past that affect you now is called “transference”. It’s important to understand this in more depth because… without you would be dead. And yet, it also contributes to some of your current suffering and what you don’t want to be identifying with. 
 

There is a lot of juice in being who you are, as a construct, as a human. I think it could be a mistake to not want to enjoy that juice.

Edited March 31, 2023 by Thought Art

[Jacob Morres]

11 hours ago, integral said:

Is that really possible? Ill experiment with this

Yeah vipassana is a practical example 

I'm sure some branches of science have this developed too 

Also David r Hawkins work (letting go) and power of now has a lot of insight on this from my exp 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Jacob Morres

[integral]

15 hours ago, Thought Art said:

To grow in this regard is to work with the construction. To simply not identify with it and expecting it to go away is like… no longer identifying with being obese… okay, sure you aren’t your body. But, the obesity is still there and it’s time to do some exercises. 

We can also say, when you see a greasy burger its time to stop eating it (to be mesmerized by every thought like an addict).

The general consensus here is that im spiritually bypassing, its possible and seems likely, its also possible that this idea that I'm spiritually bypassing is a trap holding me back and a spiritual gaslight or that to feel deeply method works for some and not others or that it depends on many factors and where they are at in life. How would I know? Do I trust the wise majority or myself or experiment and see what works?

Ill blank our my mind for a month and see where that takes me, it seems like the only move in this position to make sense of anything.

 

Yes a part of me wants to stop feeling these thoughts, at the same time I feel like I've exhausted this game with my self and really no longer need to hold on to it anymore.

The consensuses is to feel deeply but its unclear what kind of person this works for and what the results are, we need some spiritual statistics. Maybe this doesn't work for me. The point of feeling deeply i think is to not be reactionary and warp ones perspective to that feeling, to remain impartial in ones judgment. Its useful for clarity but its unclear if we need to keep holding on to it.

I have enough training now that i can click a button and be at piece. I see no difference between doing that and exercise to change hormones, eating healthy, meditating, taking psychedelics or any other means people use to improve the quality of there experience. 

 

I do appreciate the feed back, its great guys.

Edited April 1, 2023 by integral

[BipolarGrowth]

On 3/31/2023 at 9:40 AM, integral said:

I'm done playing kids games with myself.

This sounds a bit like a more convoluted form of a kid’s game. 

[integral]

23 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

This sounds a bit like a more convoluted form of a kid’s game. 

Im aware because ive been following the herd and its unclear to me now what the kid game is anymore. 

Edited April 1, 2023 by integral