Questions about DREAM, PERCEPTION, GODHEAD, SOLIPSISM, POV

[SourceCodo]

7 hours ago, Arthogaan said:

Leo would say that you have to awake to it. By psychedelics and/or other methods.

Leo's cognition and experience don't carry much weight over here (in our conversation). I asked you! 

And I've been through the gambit of psych's already. And experiencing solipsistic awareness. From both a terrifying and beautiful perspective.

I just don't value intellectual ruminations on the nature of self/other anymore. Especially when even the most profound insight is just a rehashing of everything you know put through the filter of kaleidoscopic awareness and unconscious, wishful thinking. Resulting in... Feelings. 

I'm really just here to explore. There's nothing to be gained from these self given identities and reality ruminations besides alienation, further ideation and tail chasing. Oh and a hint of ego stroking. 

Realizing you're God and all that is... Only to turn around and try to convince projections of yourself that this is the case... Is a bit deranged. It's hypocritical and directly invalidates your claims. It's like talking to the voice in your head and trying to change it's opinion... Circular arguments. Poof.

Personally, I just think it's dishonest. Yes, personally.

Edited April 1, 2023 by SourceCodo

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Matthew85 said:

@Leo Gura But so much of it seems to be being orchestrated at levels beyond my awareness.

Yes, because you lack consciousness.

Quote

For example. You have no idea what you will dream tonight when you fall asleep.

The nature of Infinity is that it is a mystery even for GOD.

1 hour ago, Matthew85 said:

@Leo Gura So if somebody is starving or in extreme suffering, you say this is reality being perfect? 

"just surrender to it and you are happy and at peace." Easy to say when you are not in extreme suffering or challenge's. 

If you are stuck in extreme suffering the only thing that will help you is surrender.

You cannot manipulate your way out of every situation. Try if you can, but when that fails you only got two options: resist and even suffer more, or surrender.

Life is a brutal thing.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

Obviously don't take our word for it. Explore your Consciousness and discover whatever is true.

If there exist others consciousnesses besides your own, it's simple: find them.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Water by the River]

On 1.4.2023 at 5:45 AM, GLORY said:

My biggest Problems with Solipsism and Absolute Consciousness are:

• How can my consciousness be absolute when its not on a constant level 
• How can my consciousness be absolute and I omniscient when I dont know how and why I am imagining, I am not conscious about it 
• I dont know about me willingly imagining
• How can I be omnipotent and have a free will to imagine whatever I want at any moment when physical laws strictly determine 

My direct experience make it seem to be impossible that I am the entire Godhead who is omniscient and omnipotent, and that my direct experience is absolute

There must be something "behind the scenes" like the Computers CPU which creates a Videogame. But I feel like a character in this Videogame who wonders what everything is and where it comes from without any control. An omniscient being would simultanously know how it creates experience and experiences, where I only experience. Only experience is nothing compared to an omniscient being. An omniscient being would also be conscious about the illusion, self-deception and forgetting

Supposing I become Awake and conscious about how I am imagining everything, why wasnt I conscious about the imagining process before Awakening if I am already omniscient right now? 

Conclusion: My consciousness is an Aspect of God but not The God.
But change my mind, I am openminded

Good questions. I had the exactly same problems/questions concerning Solipsism and Absolute Consciousness.

The following are answers that can calm your mindstream to make you available for the Awakening, and they can speeden up the realization developed out of certain Awakenings/Koans. They are not "logical answers" that suffice on a logical/reasoning level alone, but can speeden the process of Awakening to these Koans that you state with your questions.

> How can my consciousness be absolute when its not on a constant level 

Because you are the Nothingness/Consciousness that can unaware of itself when no experience or any arising-appearance is there. BUT with the potential for sentience. Which is the difference to IT just being nothing at all. This difference makes IT/You the opposite of nothing: Infinite Potential. If you need to have constant level of consciousness, you would have a problem: Deep Sleep. Where are you there? Have you stopped existing? Rather not.... The Real You can never not be there. The face before your parents were born.... literally.

Also, that (potentially) Aware Infinite Reality that You are

• can be ignorant, or awake. It can have arisings (appearing/moving/being imagined) through it) of a spearate self in it, of an animal, or something like a world/Lila-reality creating angel in the Link below. And these arisings are empty, which means nothing else as not existing independend of You, outside of You, but imagined/manifested/moving within You/Reality. Not self-EX-isting, which means not standing out from the one Reality, but within it. Not existing without this Reality/Infinite Consciousness. It took me a looong time to really get why the Buddhist talk so much about Emptiness, and what they mean by it... And of course, to really get it, you need Awakenings. That is why most of the talk about emptiness can be .... rather empty.  
• Did you ever dream to be something/someone completely different than your waking separate self? Did that hurt you? Or was it just a great adventure?
• The Real You can never gain or loose anything. How could you improve an Infinite (potentially) Sentient Reality that is infinite and absolutely formless, the One and infinite Only without a second, that can imagine/manifest anything it wants? You could say the content/show could be improved. But who wants that show? The Real You. Ignorance is only a bad idea from the perspective of ignorance (Francis Lucille). Could the Real You be hurt by the show? How? And is "anything"/any imagined arising permanent? Disclaimer: Guru Padmasambhava said, “My realization is higher than the sky. But my observance of karma is finer than grains of flour.” If  a separate self thinks it can do what it wants without consequence, you will only suffer... Karma still holds. 100%. Reality is that smart....infinitely smart/intelligent. 
• If the real You/Reality would be anything specific/an arising, or have any properties (besides being totally empty, infinite, with potential for sentience, and being able to imagine/manifest anything in itself and watching itself then, perceptions perceiving themselves with or without a separate self being imagined), wouldn't that limit You in what you could be/manifest/imagine? 
• Any fear-arising when contemplating what You really are is just a protection meachnism of the illusion, of Lila. In truth, you are all you ever wish you could be. Eternally. 
• For the full Realization of what You are, you have to be fully empty of any identification, all (!) separate self arising have to be seen trough, as moving in You. Not because you are nothing, but You are the Containing Reality for any being possible. Infinite. Able to create an Infinity of dimensions. Not a empty lacking emptiness/nothing, but a Full Emptiness of Infinite Potential. If any subtle self left-overs are still there and not transcended/seen through/made objects/arisings moving within you instead of subject/lenses you look through, you will project that on the Absolute Empty Reality that you are. These lenses will distort and colour your realization. How to notice that in an easy way? You still suffer....

> How can my consciousness be absolute and I omniscient when I dont know how and why I am imagining, I am not conscious about it. I dont know about me willingly imagining

"Other" Perspectives/Beings: What did you do one year ago? Probably (as me), you forgot that (to be more precise: "I" can't imagine that right now). So you admit forgetting in time. The "other" perspectives/beings, you forget "in space" right now. If you fully understand the structure of your perspective, you would understand the structure of all other perspectives (please check my previous posts if you are interested).  And any separation/boundary to any other "forgotten" perspective would just be an arising/appearance/boundary arising in you (so arising form, not you as Subject). So there can not be any real boundaries to the Absolute Subject/Consciousness that you are.

>I dont know about me willingly imagining 

Reality/Dimension Creating/Sustaining Perspectives/Beings: Other perspectives of You that you forget right now do that. Volunteers of for example Stan Grofs Psychedelics Research programs, or those of RIck Strassman, report encountering these reality creating perspectives, for example:

 

Angel is Christian-influenced. What "sits" in the center of the Buddhafields (Dimensions), managing it, in the Supreme Array Sutra? You guessed it probably: A kind of super-Buddha organizing that dimension. In Hinduism, it would be some kind of Vishnu. Infinite Dimension, infinite N+1 Dimension-Care-Takers... And an alien civilization in this Universe would call that instance/perspective maybe "'#24sfse2".

So why not tend the flowers in your garden at home, and try to increase the love & wisdom in the mindstream of your invidual perspective, when you had a glimpse of this meta-structure of the Multiverse... instead of learning the "manifestation-mechanism-preferences/methods" of Vishnu Number 92742387423423.....? The "meta-structure" of manifestation, and the "Vishnus, Angel, Buddhafield-Buddha,..."  running the dimensions can be generalized via something like n+1 (via https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction - style), if you are so inclined...

Does that maybe resonate with you?

>How can I be omnipotent and have a free will to imagine whatever I want at any moment when physical laws strictly determine 

Because what you think you are (separate self arisings in your perspective) is not all that which You are. Not the real You. And not all perspectives of the Real You. Physical laws are imagined by the real You and all "its" perspectives, constituting Indras Infinite Net, with a high level of consistency. Different to dreams at night, which are not so consistent. When you awaken to the real You, you will see that what You really are is exactly what Reality is and wants.

The consistency of the laws of Reality of this Lila by the way make this saying very true if you want to be happy:  "“My realization is higher than the sky. But my observance of karma is finer than grains of flour.” If you want to be happy, I am very sure, it is very important to take that serious.

>My direct experience make it seem to be impossible that I am the entire Godhead who is omniscient and omnipotent, and that my direct experience is absolute

Because what You really is not the separate self/separate self arisings in your mindstream. -> Awaken to what You really are.

>There must be something "behind the scenes" like the Computers CPU which creates a Videogame. But I feel like a character in this Videogame who wonders what everything is and where it comes from without any control. An omniscient being would simultanously know how it creates experience and experiences, where I only experience. Only experience is nothing compared to an omniscient being. An omniscient being would also be conscious about the illusion, self-deception and forgetting

See the link above. If you want to explore these mechanism, Psychedelics are probably the way to go. Or you can work on Awakening to what you really are. I would recommend putting an emphasize on the latter, but being interested in the former. Just for the sheer beauty of the understanding of it.

>Supposing I become Awake and conscious about how I am imagining everything, why wasnt I conscious about the imagining process before Awakening if I am already omniscient right now? 

What did you do exactly one year and two days ago? I assume you forgot. So you can forget, or rather stop imagining that right now. In the same way, you can forget other perspectives of you. If you are that angel-perspective of the link above, apparently you can't be a human, at least not in the same moment. So enjoy that you can experience being a human! If that were not the case, You couldnt experience being human at all. You would miss that forever. Or in other words, you wouldn't exist, you (separate self) would be dead, not existing in the first place. I guess your separate self rather wouldn't want that. At least I enjoy the wonders of this planet earth, appreciating that this only possible with the limitations imagined  ( :

>Conclusion: My consciousness is an Aspect of God but not The God. But change my mind, I am openminded

Your separate self arisings are an arising in Reality, they are an aspect of God, and NOT ONLY what you are. What you really are is much more. But for that, you need an Awakening into what You really are. Confusing the separate self with being Reality is a bad idea if you want to be happy (that confusion creates bad Karma...).

Basically, to answer any of your questions, you need an Awakening. Maybe the preliminary answers given above can calm your mind/separate self-arisings in your mindstream, to rest and relax in you True Being enough, to awaken to the answers of these Koans. Bon voyage and happy exploring! ( : 

Water by the River 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Water by the River

[Yimpa]

On 3/31/2023 at 5:59 AM, Mikesinfinity said:

Just telling me I don’t understand and then not helping me is also useless. 

 

It does help if you’re open-minded and are willing to drop your own bullshit. 
 

On 3/31/2023 at 5:59 AM, Mikesinfinity said:

It’s like the teacher telling the kid just starting out math class he doesn’t understand any math. Yeah, like why do you think he’s there?

Kids are naturally open-minded and don’t have a lot of bullshit to drop. 

[Yimpa]

On 3/31/2023 at 5:30 PM, Leo Gura said:

Just imagine that you're so present that you stop conjuring up anything beyond the present moment. No past, no future, no birth, no death, no memories, no ego, no other, no stories, no science, no spirituality. Just PURE NOW.

Even no psychedelics 

[Mikesinfinity]

@Yimpa

5 hours ago, Yimpa said:

It does help if you’re open-minded and are willing to drop your own bullshit. 

5 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Kids are naturally open-minded and don’t have a lot of bullshit to drop.

I am aware that a lot could be bullshit. That was why I wrote it out very clearly where I was in my line of thinking, to have people comment on it and give feedback. Why I wrote these "disclaimers" is because I picked up a lot of the jargong here where people instead of having a supporting attitude instead go after each other in some sort of competitive way and I didn't want this thread to turn out that way because I'm genuinely trying to understand. 

You're actually an example right now of exactly why I wrote those things. You're telling me I'm dropping a lot of bullshit and I said that I'm willing to put anything I wrote into question, but that if you find errors then you yourself must not be in that trap and in that case be able to give me that input so that I can see myself that it is bullshit, if it is. Of course like everybody here there are things I think are true and others that I don't and if I didn't take any position to begin with I couldn't even formulate what I wrote but that doesn't mean that I'm not willing to change my position. 

Anyway, I didn't come here for arguing a position but for feedback so point out what you think is bullshit and I will consider what you say.

 

[Mikesinfinity]

On 2023-03-31 at 4:52 PM, Leo Gura said:

For God's Mind to be Soveriegn, your experience has to be absolute and total. So what is being claimed is that there is nothing outside your experience.

So absolutely everything outside my current experience, including other perspectives, right now is only something I’m imagining?

And then I’m imagining that I’m not imagining it? Like if I ask myself; ”if I stop imagine there is anything at all outside my current experience, would it still exist something outside my current experience?” And if I say ”yes” to that, THAT is also my imagination? And that’s in a sense how I’m making my imagination become reality?  So the act of imagining it is the act of creating it?

[Leo Gura]

@Mikesinfinity Correct. You're dreaming a world around yourself and then denying that you do so because that would spoil the dream you worked so hard to create.

Dreaming involves a lot of work. You don't want to just throw it all away. You are very attached to it.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Greatnestwithin]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Mikesinfinity Correct. You're dreaming a world around yourself and then denying that you do so because that would spoil the dream you worked so hard to create.

Dreaming involves a lot of work. You don't want to just throw it all away. You are very attached to it.

We were a Yes to this dream and game, so let´s enjoy it and go full-on into it!

[OldManCorcoran]

Some people make money from obfuscating insights.

Singularity is different from unity. Your visual field has lots of different colors in it despite being unified. If you on the other hand saw pure white and nothing else, that would not only be unity but singularity.

There is no logical issue whatsoever with there existing multiple perspectives. It is the same as above. If you can envision, metaphorically, the I character imagining itself down into many perspectives. That is solipsism but not singularity.

Singularity would be if all beings saw nothing but white and there were no other perceptions.

Multiplicity is the layering on top of I. It is still unified and that is solipsistic.

Easy to explain without riddles.

[Mikesinfinity]

@OldManCorcoran

I think I understand the distinction you make between unified and singular. In a sense to say it’s unified is to already have carved it up in distinctions and without doing so we couldn’t say it’s ”unified” but instead ”singular”. Just as it wouldn't make sense calling a singular white field unified because what is it that’s unified?

So we could say it’s just one singular ”white” field and when that ”whiteness” takes on different distinctions(shapes/colors) and then by just seeing the distinctions it takes it’s imagining there must be more than one field? And if it would dissolve back into pure whiteness it would realize it’s the only field?

So this field I’m experiencing now in actuality, is the only field but that doesn’t preclude ”other perspectives” as they are just like this ”perspective” only this singular white field taking on distinctions?

[Vibes]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Mikesinfinity Correct. You're dreaming a world around yourself and then denying that you do so because that would spoil the dream you worked so hard to create.

Dreaming involves a lot of work. You don't want to just throw it all away. You are very attached to it.

@Leo Gura

What is the purpose of my suffering? I can't understand it.

Will it ultimately lead to complete Awakening?

How many more years do I need to suffer and struggle, could I live an entire life of suffering and only wake up at the end? That would be tragic.

[Sincerity]

1 minute ago, Vibes said:

What is the purpose of my suffering? I can't understand it.

What is the purpose of anything? 

[OldManCorcoran]

2 hours ago, Mikesinfinity said:

@OldManCorcoran

I think I understand the distinction you make between unified and singular. In a sense to say it’s unified is to already have carved it up in distinctions and without doing so we couldn’t say it’s ”unified” but instead ”singular”. Just as it wouldn't make sense calling a singular white field unified because what is it that’s unified?

So we could say it’s just one singular ”white” field and when that ”whiteness” takes on different distinctions(shapes/colors) and then by just seeing the distinctions it takes it’s imagining there must be more than one field? And if it would dissolve back into pure whiteness it would realize it’s the only field?

So this field I’m experiencing now in actuality, is the only field but that doesn’t preclude ”other perspectives” as they are just like this ”perspective” only this singular white field taking on distinctions?

It's a lot easier than that.

Say there are only two living beings in existence. In scenario 1, both are sat in the same room hearing the same exact song. In scenario 2, one of them hears that song, while the other walks to another room and listens to a different song.

If you can comprehend the idea of no self, which conceptually removes the observers from observed phenomena, then neither of them ever in fact hear any song. There is only the song itself. Like the song is hearing itself.

In scenario 1, there is only one song being heard. Without the conceptual idea of there existing hearers of that song (so no two hearers of one song, just the song), there is only that single song alone. That is singularity. In scenario 2, there are two songs being heard. That is multiplicity.

An individual perspective can be seen like that. If all individuals lost all senses except sight and all saw the same white light, all apparent individuals would no longer be individual. And literally every single living being would be seeing the white with you, or more accurately they very much literally ARE you. And only you see the white.

If individual perceptions returned, egos etc (egos themselves are thought perceptions) would assign the experience to itself. So say there were 6 billion people who went through that experience, all 6 billion would believe it was they themselves who had that experience and that they were the one there. And it would be correct for every single being... There is no such thing as "other beings". If you believe you are the only existent being, you are right, and if I think that, I am equally correct. Literally I am you and you are me.

It does not preclude individual perspectives and egos at all. If you don't understand I can put it many other ways.

[JuliusCaesar]

On 4/1/2023 at 1:22 PM, Leo Gura said:

If there exist others consciousnesses besides your own, it's simple: find them.

This cannot be done. The only way you could prove someone else was conscious would be to become them. But notice that when you do that, you're now alone as them just as you were before. You could turn yourself into two different conscious entities at once. But alas, the same problem exists. Because even then you're alone for much the same reason that you were alone before. You could even become all living things on Earth, and you'd still be alone. There simply isn't a way to debunk the notion that only one exists, and all in existence are that one.

 

 

[Yimpa]

5 hours ago, JuliusCaesar said:

There simply isn't a way to debunk the notion that only one exists, and all in existence are that one.

Infinity.

[Mikesinfinity]

On 2023-04-05 at 11:42 AM, Leo Gura said:

Correct. You're dreaming a world around yourself and then denying that you do so because that would spoil the dream you worked so hard to create.

Dreaming involves a lot of work. You don't want to just throw it all away. You are very attached to it

Yeah, I can definitely sense that attachment. I agree that what I’m currently experiencing is a dream so that’s not really the issue. I understand that object permanence is false but that it contextualizes this dream as instead being a human being located in a world. What I’m really trying to get at could perhaps be summed up with the question ”what is an other?”

So when I’m having a night dream, nothing that’s not being present exists. Also all the bodies in the dream are not aware of their surroundings. They act as if they are using their sense organs to be aware of the objects around them and they even talk about them, but they are not actually aware of them since they are just like everything else only dreamed up and a part if the dream itself.

In that dream it’s just one mind that is aware of what’s happening, one subject. The presence of another body in the dream isn’t the presence of another subject. All ”others” are really just figments that the mind is dreaming up. So if what we mean by ”perspectives” are something bodies are ”having” of their surroundings, that is false.

The claim is that the exact same is true for this waking state. If I would watch you make a blueberry smoothie the body I call ”you” is not really aware of doing that. All of it’s actions and reactions to it’s surroundings is a creation of the mind.

So my question is, just at this is a dream, are there other dreams? One universal mind dreaming all possible dreams? Because I’ve had many night dreams, but I don’t think it’s a different mind dreaming each of those dreams. It’s all one mind.

In the same way, even though I don’t have any recollection right now of another dream, on the same level as this current waking state dream, I can certainly extrapolate on the fact of this being a dream that I could easily dream up another dream where I’m playing a completely different character with completely different surroundings.

One of your videos I have watched the most is ”what is reality?” and when I was trying to make sense of it I skimmed through the comments and saw this comment and your answer:
Q: ”I love your videos, Leo. Thanks for putting them up. One concept I can't get past is that if I am imagining you, aren't you also imagining me? If we both met right now, wouldn't we both think that we were imagining each other? If this is true, who among us is the subject?”
A: ”Yes, we imagine each other. The subject of you and me is identical.”

This seems to say there are two dreams but one subject. So just as you are perceived as an ”other” in this dream I understand that what I call ”me” is an ”other” in the other dream. But both of those ”others” are figments of imagination by God’s mind and that communication between two subjects is an illusion and it’s really just God.
Another dream wouldn’t mean another mind or subject just in the same way as I don’t attribute all my night time dreams to different minds.

If there is just one singular dream, there would be no point at all for communication and it all gets extremely circular and there is no point in writing this. If there are more than one dream communication makes sense even though it’s ultimately one subject. Like we have seen with people having dissociative personality disorder where different parts of one mind can take over and when one part comes online the other part is offline and they have no access to the knowledge the other part has. I mean in this case these two dissociative parts could engage in a chess match and planning their moves and it would work as each part doesn’t have access to what the other part is planning. So even though it’s one person playing it would still make sense, but if that dissociation would disappear, those parts would seize being separated and the mind would unify and that would break the game.  

And in some sense this is a micro example is what’s happening on a macro scale with God?
 
That video and comment is 2-3 years old and you’ve had more awakenings since then so I don’t know how well that align with what you understand now but at some point on your own path you formulated it that way. When you advance in understanding, or in any activity for that matter, the further you go the more you’ll look back to the earlier stages and think to yourself ”how the hell did I think that?”, at least I certainly relate to that. But to be where you are now you had to go through that previous understanding that you maybe now deem as inadequate so to just dismiss it I feel like is a mistake, especially as a teacher to his students.

[JuliusCaesar]

7 hours ago, Mikesinfinity said:

They act as if they are using their sense organs to be aware of the objects around them and they even talk about them, but they are not actually aware of them since they are just like everything else only dreamed up and a part if the dream itself.

How do you know that dream characters don't have biological functions? 

 

Furthermore, it's clear you likely haven't much experience lucid dreaming. Otherwise, you'd have experiences where the other dream characters are just as lucid/aware or even more so than you. 

 

7 hours ago, Mikesinfinity said:

But both of those ”others” are figments of imagination by God’s mind and that communication between two subjects is an illusion and it’s really just God.

Correct, you're alone as everything and nothing. This is the metaphysical impetus for the notion of solipsism being true.

 

 

[OldManCorcoran]

Clearly everything you have ever known is imaginary, not even a scientist can deny this. I don't know how it's a debate lol.