Questions about DREAM, PERCEPTION, GODHEAD, SOLIPSISM, POV

[GLORY]

 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, there is something behind the scenes, namely more Consciousness.
You are like a light bulb set to 0.01% power.

Then this 0.01% consciousness is a fraction of 100% Absolut Consciousness.
Means they must be "connected" and also "seperated" like a room in a house, with different experiences and independently conscious of itself.
So the 99.99% is conscious of itself and the imagining process, and my 0.01% consciousness is not conscious of all that.
My direct experience is just the fraction of Absolute Experience.
Its nonduality and duality at once: the illusion of seperation is so strong that it becomes reality

Is this explanation right?

Edited April 1, 2023 by GLORY

[Arthogaan]

1 hour ago, GLORY said:

Then this 0.01% consciousness is a fraction of 100% Absolut Consciousness.
Means they must be "connected" and also "seperated" like a room in a house, with different experiences and independently conscious of itself.

It is not like you are 1% of the light bulb and there is 99% of it hidden from you existing somewhere behind the scenes.

You are already the whole one light bulb but you did not turn up the electricity to 100% but to 1%. 

[SourceCodo]

2 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

It is not like you are 1% of the light bulb and there is 99% of it hidden from you existing somewhere behind the scenes.

You are already the whole one light bulb but you did not turn up the electricity to 100% but to 1%. 

But is the lightbulb the entire house it's connected to?
 

Given the nature of this experience, I think it's a fair question. 

Yes, one is all, but what about my safe space bubble? My identity? Back off?  

Edited April 1, 2023 by SourceCodo

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, GLORY said:

Means they must be "connected" and also "seperated" like a room in a house, with different experiences and independently conscious of itself.

It doesn't mean that.

Just because a light bulb is set to low power does not mean that cranking up the power will spawn more light bulbs. The one bulb will just shine brighter.

If you shine at 100% brightness you will not see any other bulbs but you. Other bulbs only exist in the dimness of your light.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Water by the River]

10 hours ago, Matthew85 said:

Lately I'm having a really hard time with the lack of awareness and control over the realities we are experiencing. From my Matthew pov it all just seems to be unfolding on it's own. I don't like feeling like a puppet. 

I agree to all that Leo has written above.

Some musings from over here:

Free will vs. Determinism:

The Real You (Infinite Consciousness/Reality) has absolute freedom. The separate self illusion arising in you just feels like being you, but is not you, never was you, never will be you. Never could. You contain these arisings of the separte self in the real You. So it doesn't really exist, and since it doesn't exist, it has no freedom. But the Real You has absolute freedom. Nothing is or could be outside of it to limit its power. You project this freedom that you so strongly intuit on the separate self. So it is an illusion/ignorance. But the core of that feeling of freedom of choice it true, it is the Real You.

But: That reasoning will not be clear before some Awakenings into what you are, and then it can help you passing and ripening that understanding, and stabilizing you in resting what You are. Then & there it is beneficial. Before that, it is just impossible to fully get it. 

Structure of your World-Bubble-Perspective/Visual Field:

Since any form of boundary between perspectives would be an imagined arising, it is illusory, an appearance. Your current consciousness is limited, you forget all other perspectives in real time. But you add/imagine separate self arisings (feelings and thoughts), which are the illusion/ignorance. With more consciousness, you can have a Vision like Leavitt (see book cover with infinite perspectives).

To get Enlightenment or Omniscience into the structure of Reality, you don't need to see all perspectives, but to fully understand the nature/structure/essence of your perspective, which you then realize has necessarily to hold for all other perspectives/beings. And for all dimensions, since there are only perspectives in Indras Net. N+1 -style. Even a Molecule is some kind of proto-perspective, the interiortity of a Holon in Ken Wilbers theory for example. Although a very rudimentary one.

Here some ideas/Koans how to investigate your perspective, and which kind of [Awakenings/Enlightenments] you need:

• all appearances are imagined arisings in you, any boundary to any other perspective would just be imagined/arising (so not real, just appearing): What is necessary for that Awakening: A state of sufficient Nonduality , appearances appearing as just appearances (hovering in you, hologram-like/translucent). Not the normal everyday state, so either lot of meditation done correctly or Psychedelics are necessary. Psychedelics are very useful to get a preview on that, it takes a while to get there via meditation.
• the True You as the fully empty Nothingness which is "structurally infinite": Awakening in to the Nothingness or empty cogniziant nature of your core. "Structurally infinite", since any boundary limiting it would just be an imagined appearance, NOT really limiting it, but appearing within it. Something outside that imagined boundary can always also appear/be imagined.
• And since it is infinite, has no boundary (that would just be an arising in itself), it can't go anywhere, can't die: Awakening into eternity or "always necessary here-ness, can't go anywhere else-ness, can not not be there-ness".
• Also wasn't created (that would be another arising). It has nothing outside of itself (would be another appearance/arising) which could have created or caused it. That is a mindf*** (sorry) of the highest degree once you stumble over it. No daddy, but You get used to it. ( :
• It can imagine whatever it wants (omnipotent).
• Then we have timeless/eternal, nonlocal/"everywhere"/every possible being and reality, literally the only "One" or Reality itself, nothing can be outside of It (omnipresent), and omnipotent (since its the only Reality, no other Reality is stopping It from whatever it wants). So we have eternal, infinite, omnipotent/all powerful. And in some persepctives/beings, it even knows its structural fundamental nature: omniscient of its fundamental structure/being. And that is where sometimes the God-word (eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent, infinite, omniscient) comes in.... But please, don't use any of these insights for separate-self-identity/arisings. That only makes trouble and, you know, bad Karma.  Because it is just not true. All of that holds for the True Nature of You, not some not-really-existing (EX-isting = standing out from reality) separate self. But it is not standing out from Reality, it is moving in it, as it, the temporary arising separate-self illusion moving within you and temporary capturing the show for itself.
• after all of that, you can Awaken to the nature/structure of Manifested/Appearing Reality/Consciousness, God Mind, Infinite, Brahman, Nonduality, ... However you want to call it. 

The last step is: (oh yes, after all of the above when having been stabilized in it for some time (days, months, years), the last big shift comes. And you won't overlook that one, because all of the above is gradual. This one is quantum). You won't overlook this one, you don't need to contemplate it, don't need to "make a decission" on it or on what you hold as true. It is totally fundamentally self-evident. It IS YOU. With that, you can look the devil in the eye and not blink. You will have the peace and bliss of your True Nature, that is "maintenance-free", since it IS You. It is variously called Great Enlightenment (Zen), Basis Enlightenment (Mahamdura Brown, Pointing out the Great Way), Great Liberation, ...

• Who or what is aware of all of that described above? Of the nondual infinite God-Mind Bubble Universe of manifested Infinite Consciousness floating in Infinity, as Infinity. What is the Reality/Awareness of Yours, that is inseparable of this Reality? What is the Awareness/"Subject" in perceptions perceiving themselves, without ever possibly having any location/center? What is the Reality/Awareness that can be originally "unaware" when no appearances arise in You (for example, in unware "normal" Deep Sleep), but has the potential of sentience as soon as an appearance is manifested? Who is hearing these words right now?
• What is this Absolute Subject, the Absolute Nothingness, that is so empty as Subject itself that the Absolute Abyss, that even God can't see anything in It?
• That you can only "experience", or that becomes available when "looking back" from "one level lower" and intuit/understand it as absolute Abyss of the Absolute Subject that you are? That then can be intuited/realized as total Abyss/Nothingness. That can never be any form or arising, because "the eye can't see" itself style? The Unmanifested Consciousness Reality that can be unaware of itself if no appearance is imagined, and yet that manifests as any possible world appearance in itself as itself, totally nondual, as the One Infinite Reality?
• What is beyond Manifested/Appearing Reality/Consciousness, God Mind, Infinite, Brahman, Nonduality, beyond all of that, but at the same time expressing itself through that? What remains if all of that, the Universe-Appearance, is switched off and ends, and before a new creation arises (for example in Deep unaware Sleep, or immediately after death before the show goes on)? What is the unmanifested "side" of Consciousness/Reality/Nothingness, but which is not different at all from the appearances arising within it, as it?  That which can not not be there? That which has been called Para-Brahman, Godhead, the Absolute, Absolute Awareness, Infinite Awareness. The Fundamental Real You. That neither exists as appearance, nor does not exist because something still appears? The Water of the River that every Being is at its core. Or much much more precise, after all my clumsy descriptions above have failed: The Clap of the One Hand, or your face before your parents were born.

And since You are already It, "I" am just....

... Selling Water by the River ( :

 

Somebody made a Video Channel on the last step:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9vlZGtpdFIts8GOG5vu27g

 

Bassui on the never stopping short with small Enlighenments:

"I have seen that the foundation of the universe is Voidness; still what is this something within me which can see and hear?” he desperately asked himself anew. In spite of every effort, he could not rid himself of this obsessive doubt." [Emptiness and Nondual stage, separate self still intact, on a very rudamentary level, just a void separate self watching Infinity. 

"The lesser masters from whom Bassui had sought guidance had all sanctioned his enlightenment [see above, Awakenings], but Koho, sensing Bassui’s keen, sensitive mind and the strength and purity of his yearning for truth, did not give him his stamp of approval but merely invited him to remain"

"At work, at rest, never stop trying to realize who it is that hears. Even though your questioning penetrates the unconscious, you won’t find the one who hears, and all your efforts will come to naught. Yet sounds can be heard, so question yourself to an even profounder level. At last every vestige of self-awareness [remnants of Empty Witness] will disappear and you will feel like a cloudless sky. Within yourself you will find no “I,” nor will you discover anyone who hears. This Mind is like the void, yet it hasn’t a single spot that can be called empty [no location, unilocal, perception perceiving themselves]. Do not mistake this state for Self-realization, but continue to ask yourself even more intensely, “Now who is it that hears?” If you bore and bore into this question, oblivious to anything else, even this feeling of voidness will vanish and you won’t be aware of anything—total darkness will prevail. [Don’t stop here, but] keep asking with all your strength, “What is it that hears?” Only when you have completely exhausted the questioning [having become fully empty, even of identity with manifested Consciouss, "God-Mind"] will the question burst; now you will feel like someone who has come back from the dead. This is true realization. You will see the Buddhas of all the universes face-to-face and the Dharma Ancestors past and present."

"With the passage of time one’s thoughts are stilled and one experiences a void like that of a cloudless sky [Emptiness, Nonduality]. You must not, however, confuse this with enlightenment. Putting aside logic and reason, question yourself even more intensely in this wise: “Mind is formless, and so right now am I. What, then, is hearing?” Only after your search has permeated every pore and fiber of your being [having become totally empty] will the empty-space suddenly break asunder and your Face before your parents were born appear. You will feel like one who abruptly awakens from a dream."

from Kapleau, The Three Pillars of Zen

 

 

PS: I didn't create that Video. But it is beautiful.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Water by the River

[SourceCodo]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It doesn't mean that.

Just because a light bulb is set to low power does not mean that cranking up the power will spawn more light bulbs. The one bulb will just shine brighter.

If you shine at 100% brightness you will not see any other bulbs but you. Other bulbs only exist in the dimness of your light.

What is the product of everyone operating at 100%?

No darkness?

And how about when you bring two candles together, creating one stronger and larger flame? 

These are pretty relevant to the topic and arguably good to have insight on. Fairly opposed examples... But there has gotta something there.

Edited April 1, 2023 by SourceCodo

[Arthogaan]

21 minutes ago, SourceCodo said:

What is the product of everyone operating at 100%?

There is only one light bulb that can be turned up to 100% at which there is no "everyone". At lower than 100% there seems to be other lightbulbs but that's is just il'usion of darkness.

[SourceCodo]

14 minutes ago, Arthogaan said:

There is only one light bulb that can be turned up to 100% at which there is no "everyone". At lower than 100% there seems to be other lightbulbs but that's is just il'usion of darkness.

Do I just have to take your word for it? 

[Mikesinfinity]

@Leo Gura

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Notice that all perspectives but yours are imaginary and hypothetical. All so-called perspectives are just subdivisions within your over-arching perspective. There is no getting outside your perspective. Because your perspective is Absolute. It's not really a perspective at all. It's Absolute Truth.

So how am I misinterpreting Absolute Truth for being a perspective? Is the imagination of ”another perspective” and creating a boundary what seems to make Truth into a perspective?

 

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

General Omniscience is being directly conscious of what everything is at the highest possible level. A complete comprehension of the ultimate nature of CONSCIOUSNESS.

Specific Omniscience would be if you knew how many ants are crawling around on planet Earth. You are not gonna get specific Omniscience. At least not while you live as a human. Maybe if you die you could get something like that.

Yeah, but when you say I’m not gonna get specific omniscience but it’s possible to achieve general omniscience that was what I was wondering about and trying to distinguish in that sand-example.

Like if I had a castle made out of sand I could either look at it as ”a castle” or I could look at it as just what it actually is, sand. If I look at it as ”a castle” there are also an infinite number of other shapes the sand could possibly take form as that I’m not aware of and therefore my consciousness feels limited. Like ”there is a lot I could be aware of but that I’m not aware of right now”. But if I just see the sand it doesn’t matter which shape it takes, it can take an infinite number of shapes but regardless I know that it’s all just one thing. That it’s even making the distinction out of the sand as ”a castle” that then creates the idea of ”other shapes” that I’m not aware of. If I somehow would be ”blind” to the shape of a castle then the dilemma of not being aware of ”other” shapes wouldn’t even occur to me.
And that wanting to get specific omniscience is like right now viewing the sand as ”a castle” and then wanting to also have access to all other possible forms. But the error in a certain sense is making the distinction in the first place.

I think one of the main points of confusion is about this distinction between general and specific omniscience and that the first objection that often comes up when you talk about reaching total omniscience is the expectation that it would mean that all relative stuff would be known.

It sounds like there is a distinction between being aware of ”everything” and being aware of what everything ”is”. To be aware of everything would be the same as being aware of all possible sand shapes but being aware of what everything is would be that you know it’s all just sand no matter what.  

I’m not saying I know that this is the case, I’m trying to make sense of it.

[Water by the River]

15 hours ago, Mikesinfinity said:

I don’t know how to use the quote function so I’ll just do like this. You write;
”Then: When you are fully empty and nondual, perceptions perceiving themselves, at some point you will directly have the realization and understanding that the same Consiousness that you are is in the "other", having arisings of the separate self-feelings and -thoughts, being believed and not seen through, just in the same way it was with you for a long time. Then, these dry perspectives explained above become a lived and felt reality.”
I do have that strange feeling of all the objects just being there, somehow self-aware and existing without being perceived. It all feels empty and very loosey goosey. When I just sit and stare at the wall it starts to float around.

I feel like it’s become a living reality in some ways but there is also conditioning that is pulling me back and how I experience things now in relation to that conditioning I’ve definitely felt and still feel to some extent that I’ve completely lost my mind and gone insane because it’s so far out compared to what I thought reality was 3-4 years ago.

I do admit that I’m to a certain extent trying to figure it out by thinking and reason but I’ve also experiences some unreasonable things in my trips so I know it has limits. I have had some breakthroughs but it’s not all clear so I’m weary of thinking ”I got it” and I can still feel there is this sense of wanting to ”grasp”. But I hope this can open me up more and help me go beyond that. 

>I feel like it’s become a living reality in some ways but there is also conditioning that is pulling me back and how I experience things now in relation to that conditioning I’ve definitely felt and still feel to some extent that I’ve completely lost my mind and gone insane because it’s so far out compared to what I thought reality was 3-4 years ago.

Be good to your separate self. It is not that you are not that, but you are not ONLY that. You contain it. If you say "You are not it", on one hand it is true, on the other hand you contain it. You give rise to it, it arises in you. So in the end, you are not ONLY it (credits concerning the "you are not not only that" to Colette Davie). In Ken Wilbers language: Differentiation and Integration vs. Disassociation and .... problems.

Your separate self will operate better, more efficient, more loving and way smarter when you no longer have ignorance, or believe to be ONLY that separate self. In the words of Daniel Brown: The small you/separate self gets out of the way, Awakened Awareness (Mahamudra/Dzogchen-term for Infinite Consciousness/Reality) takes over and does all tasks and daily life at hand much more smarter than the separate small self/you could. And since the intelligence from the separate self is just borrowed from the infinite Intelligence of Reality, you just remove a filter limiting the flow of intelligence and intuition.

The "I am not only the separate self",or  "the separate self arises in me, and its just a bundle/a Gestalt of moving I feelings/thoughts, with no real existence beyond its structure/Gestalt/structure-Gestalt=probability-arising-distribution of thoughts/feelings"  is in my opinion the more sophisticated version of Neti Neti.

The separate self Gestalt/structure arisings "borrows" its appearance of being real/consciousness from Infinite Consciousness, like the planets are only shining from the light of the sun. It doesnt really exist/shine on its own (see the Video of Francis Lucille below). What is conscious is not the separate self, but infinite consciousness. And the separate self believing itself to be true is just being that misunderstanding arising/moving in that which is really conscious.

You look out from your body like you look out from your car, but you are not your car. And with the separate self thoughts/feelings moving in you, its a bit more tricky, but a similiar confusion/mistaking what consciousness really is....

The only thing that fully drops from the separate self is the belief-concept (feeling and thought arisings) that you are only this body-mind or flow of identity-arisings. The rest of the separate self (or small you instead of You) can and should remain fully functional in You (Reality itself), that is the healthy version of the process.

But if it all happens too fast (which can lead to a more "interesting" and unhealthy version of the process, with too little integration, see what happened to Ramana in the beginning. So huge is the bliss of realizing and dwelling in what You really are....). And until you experience the stabilized and integrated form, it can be an interesting ride... Have some humor on the path, a good map, and bon voyage! Luckily, it all happens in that which You really are, and you never can loose that.

>I do admit that I’m to a certain extent trying to figure it out by thinking and reason but I’ve also experiences some unreasonable things in my trips so I know it has limits. I have had some breakthroughs but it’s not all clear so I’m weary of thinking ”I got it” and I can still feel there is this sense of wanting to ”grasp”. But I hope this can open me up more and help me go beyond that. 

To really get it, you need a change of state, an Awakening, as you write. For example via Psychedelics, and/or a good meditation system, like "Pointing out the Great Way, Brown". Or ideally, both. Then from these Awakenings come hopefully good/correct understandings/realizations. Correct understandings = understandings that facilitate and don't block further understandings/realization and Awakening-States. It is a merry-go-round of Awakening -> Realization/Understanding -> Awakening a level higher-> Realization/Understanding a level higher -> ... . Until you conform fully to the Enlightened Mind:

And when your level of Awakening, boosted and stabilized by a foundation of correct or non-ignorant Understanding/Realization reaches a certain level, then Crossing Over to fully Realizing your True Nature can happen (necessary is normally a certain time of seeing the whole Visual Field/Awareness Bubble as mere infinite appearance arising, and seeing ALL thought/feeling-arisings moving as empty appearances in you). Especially the last point takes some time... A nice description is in Pointing Out the Great Way, Chapters on Crossing Over and Basis Enlightenment (Basis= Awakening to the Absolute Nature of Reality, in Zen "Great Enlightenment").

So you have to conform in Awakening State AND Understanding/Realization to the Real Nature of Things/Reality/Enlightened Mind, and then Crossing Over can happen all by itself. Infinite Consciousness/Reality realizing Itself what it is, Reality realizing Reality itself, since Reality is Infinite Consciousness. IT understands itself.

And then one normally wonders why you haven't seen the forest for the trees earlier.... But hey, what a ride!

 

But you can't force Crossing Over, that would be yet more of so called "artificial actitivites" of the separte-self-Gestalt, creating more Illusion while trying to force it. And that is why it is so difficult, and I am a bit less than totally happy with most of the maps we have so far about this process.

Some traditions like Zen even made what some would call a fetish (sorry) out of throwing the maps away, like throwing away the Laṅkāvatāra Sūtra-Map [Wikipedia: the most important doctrines of the Laṅkāvatāra are the primacy of consciousness (Skt. vijñānavada), the teaching that consciousness as the only reality and that "all the objects of the world, and the names and forms of experience, are manifestations of the mind" as well as the "identification of the Buddha-nature (in the state of tathāgatagarbha) with alayavijñāna"]. More on that, see Wilber Integral Buddhism, chapter on Zen. Throwing maps away is true on some limited level, like getting out of only conceptual thinking into non-conceptual Awareness itself. But still...

Look at the success-rate of enlightened ones, or rather the non-success-rate... Yet, I must admit I still love Zen, like whats more precise than your face before your parents were born?  Or the Sound of the One Hand? 

Best map I have found so far is Pointing Out the Great Way, Daniel Brown. That, maybe boosted by Psychedelics to get some introduction to the Nondual-States faster...  And for Buddhism & Psychedelics, see: Psychedelic Buddhism: A User's Guide to Traditions, Symbols, and Ceremonies, Crowley, and Secret Drugs of Buddhism: Psychedelic Sacraments and the Origins of the Vajrayana, Crowley. Not that Buddhism would ever do something like that.... ( :

 

Francis Lucille on: Planets (separate self) shining in the light of the sun (Infinite Consciousness/Reality). They don't shine by themselves.

 

Selling Water by the River  ( :

Edited April 1, 2023 by Water by the River

[GLORY]

57 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Just because a light bulb is set to low power does not mean that cranking up the power will spawn more light bulbs. The one bulb will just shine brighter.
If you shine at 100% brightness you will not see any other bulbs but you. Other bulbs only exist in the dimness of your light.

This is not how I meant 

I meant it like this:
Absolute Consciousness is like the entirety of the Water of an Ocean and my consciousness is like its hurricane.
The hurricane can grow, but for that it has to takes its water from the ocean.
It can be seen as seperated from the rest of the ocean (because of different shape for example),
but both are made of the same water and are connected. 
The hurricane is just a fraction of the entire Water

My 0.01% consciousness is like the hurricanes water and the 99.99% consciousness behind the scenes is like the larger part of the oceans water.
When I become more conscious my consciousness includes/accesses more and more of the whole Absolute Consciousness.
The same with the hurricane: when it expands it includes more and more of the larger part of the Oceans water

Is this analogy now right or still wrong?

Or in the light bulb analogy, there is the bulb and the light. What does the bulb and what does the light stand for? 

[Water by the River]

2 hours ago, Mikesinfinity said:

It sounds like there is a distinction between being aware of ”everything” and being aware of what everything ”is”. To be aware of everything would be the same as being aware of all possible sand shapes but being aware of what everything is would be that you know it’s all just sand no matter what.  

Yes.

To realize

• what sand is,
• what You are, ever have been, ever will be,
• what Reality is, was and ever will be,
• and what is and will be the Reality of everything that could ever be,

is Enlightenment (the final version of it, not the small ones lining up before that). At least in my lingo. Feel free to call it anything you like.

And the sandcastles of the past or future don't exist, but are imagined right here and now. Take the sandcastles/appearance away and there is no time.

And what kind of Sand Castles Reality/God can imagine, well that exploration and adventure is what you are seeing right now, to be continued.

And since there is an Infinity of differently large Infinities (see Cantor Set Theory and Leos lovely Videos on them, especially "Understanding Absolute Infinity Part 2") , even God/Ultimate Reality will never run out of new sand castles to imagine and explore. That means "It" doesn't even have to imagine all of them (hey, lets skip that Horrorshow Sand Castle over "there", shall we?) to still have an Infinity of realties/Sand Castles yet to be explored.

Would be a bit boring if you would already know all infinite Sand Castle-Adventures already.

Having what you call Specific Omnicience of every Sand Castle possible/imaginable, that is not possible. God/Ultimate Reality is exploring its potential of an Infinity of Sand Castles. General Omnicience or realizing what Sand is  (and what You really are), what the specific Sand Casle of ours is, and what the "substance/Reality" of every possible Sand Castle, is possible, see above.

There is not only an Abyss when looking into the Abyss of the Absolute Subject, which by definition can't be an Appearance, or any form, it has to be in-FINITE, not FINITE, initially unaware if nothing is appearing (forms of Deep Sleep as anology), but with the potential for sentience of an appearance if manifesting it in IT to IT, made of IT (the Nondual-Awakening aspect). Your True Face before your parents were born. The Absolute. To really realize that, you have to be fully empty of any separate self arising that you don't see immedeately as object moving in you. Nonduality alone, or hearing the angels sing while still looking out from an empty transparent anything to "that" Infinity won't do it.

But on top of that in-FINITE-ness of the Abyss of the Absolute Subject/Reality/Nothingness, there is an Infinity of Infinities of Manifestations/appearances/sand castles arising in IT possible.

Ready for the adventure? 

Selling Water by the River

 

 

PS: Nice books on these topics:

Szyper, Infinite Consciousness: An In-depth Exploration of the Shift in Consciousness Constitutive of Enlightenment in relation to True Nature, the Soul, the Body-Mind, the Heart and the Me

Good explanation of the stages of Enlightenment:

1. The Shift [Enlightenment] into the Manifested Essemce of Consciousness (various Awakenings)
2. The Shift [Enlightenment] into the Unmanifested Source of Consciousness/ Shift [Enlightenment] into Infinite Consciousness

Gorman, What_s It Like To Be Enlightened, Book 1 & 2 (partial and full Enlightenment)

Dziubin, Consciousness Is All

Edited April 1, 2023 by Water by the River

[Water by the River]

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Edited April 1, 2023 by Water by the River

[Arthogaan]

1 hour ago, GLORY said:

This is not how I meant 

He understood what you meant. 

 

 

1 hour ago, GLORY said:

meant it like this:
Absolute Consciousness is like the entirety of the Water of an Ocean and my consciousness is like its hurricane.
The hurricane can grow, but for that it has to takes its water from the ocean.
It can be seen as seperated from the rest of the ocean (because of different shape for example),
but both are made of the same water and are connected. 
The hurricane is just a fraction of the entire Water

My 0.01% consciousness is like the hurricanes water and the 99.99% consciousness behind the scenes is like the larger part of the oceans water.

It is that when you are a tornado then ALL THERE IS  is a tornado, there is no ocean out there behind the scenes, but by cranking up your consciousness the tornado can become the ocean. When you are a tornado in a lower state of consciousness there seems to be some other ocean and some other tornados out there, but when you wake up you realized all the ocean there is is you and therefore tornado grows to become ocean.

[Arthogaan]

3 hours ago, SourceCodo said:

Do I just have to take your word for it? 

Leo would say that you have to awake to it. By psychedelics and/or other methods.

[Mikesinfinity]

@Water by the River

2 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Be good to your separate self. It is not that you are not that, but you are not ONLY that. You contain it. If you say "You are not it", on one hand it is true, on the other hand you contain it. You give rise to it, it arises in you. So in the end, you are not ONLY it (credits concerning the "you are not not only that" to Colette Davie). In Ken Wilbers language: Differentiation and Integration vs. Disassociation and .... problems.

2 hours ago, Water by the River said:

The only thing that fully drops from the separate self is the belief-concept (feeling and thought arisings) that you are only this body-mind or flow of identity-arisings. The rest of the separate self (or small you instead of You) can and should remain fully functional in You (Reality itself), that is the healthy version of the process.

But if it all happens too fast (which can lead to a more "interesting" and unhealthy version of the process, with too little integration, see what happened to Ramana in the beginning. So huge is the bliss of realizing and dwelling in what You really are....). And until you experience the stabilized and integrated form, it can be an interesting ride... Have some humor on the path, a good map, and bon voyage! Luckily, it all happens in that which You really are, and you never can loose that.

I appreciate that.

I feel like it’s all been unraveling pretty fast and it’s been screwing with how I’m relating to things. I’ve always felt that there is something off with just saying ”you’re not it” instead of saying ”not only it”. There's a lot of talking about ego in spiritual circles and it feels like in many cases it becomes an unhealthy fixation and the desire ”to get out of it” can become dissociative. I also got some trauma baggage that’s been suppressed before but that have come up, confusing things for me.

I will definitely check out Ken Wilbers model about Differentiation and Integration vs. Disassociation. Thank you for that.

 

2 hours ago, Water by the River said:

Your separate self will operate better, more efficient, more loving and way smarter when you no longer have ignorance, or believe to be ONLY that separate self. In the words of Daniel Brown: The small you/separate self gets out of the way, Awakened Awareness (Mahamudra/Dzogchen-term for Infinite Consciousness/Reality) takes over and does all tasks and daily life at hand much more smarter than the separate small self/you could. And since the intelligence from the separate self is just borrowed from the infinite Intelligence of Reality, you just remove a filter limiting the flow of intelligence and intuition.

I do feel that when I experience the most Love it’s like something has taken over me and act with an intelligence that I otherwise don’t have access to. It’s like it just knows what to do better than I could ever know.
I work partly as a jazz musician and sometimes when the energy in the room reaches a certain level I can get into a complete flow state where there is no sense of doership and I can get totally surprised of what comes out. Like it’s completely spontaneous, new and unrehearsed and I’m baffled to where the hell that came from. When people come up to me after because they felt it too it’s like ”yeah, I’m as impressed as you”.  

 

2 hours ago, Water by the River said:

To really get it, you need a change of state, an Awakening, as you write. For example via Psychedelics, and/or a good meditation system, like "Pointing out the Great Way, Brown". Or ideally, both. Then from these Awakenings come hopefully good/correct understandings/realizations. Correct understandings = understandings that facilitate and don't block further understandings/realization and Awakening-States. It is a merry-go-round of Awakening -> Realization/Understanding -> Awakening a level higher-> Realization/Understanding a level higher -> ... . Until you conform fully to the Enlightened Mind:

Yeah, that’s what’s been my aim with psychedelics and 5 meo, to reach states that I couldn’t reach sober but then help that inform my understanding in my sober state. I can get into some deeper meditative states where things first start to move around and then begins to dissolve into light but it doesn’t compare to a more powerful trip. I have noticed how my understanding in my sober state makes my trips deeper so I can see that merry-go-round effect. To be continued!  

 

[Water by the River]

3 hours ago, Mikesinfinity said:

I work partly as a jazz musician and sometimes when the energy in the room reaches a certain level I can get into a complete flow state where there is no sense of doership and I can get totally surprised of what comes out. Like it’s completely spontaneous, new and unrehearsed and I’m baffled to where the hell that came from. When people come up to me after because they felt it too it’s like ”yeah, I’m as impressed as you”.

Nice. The bliss of the flow state is the little sister of the bliss when resting in Your True Being. Flow is very powerful, and a major source of bliss while still being in the claws of the separate-self-contraction. 

A main building block of the separate self is discontent, suffering and contraction, clearly felt behind the forehead. How much tension there is you clearly get to feel when its gone. Or before fully waking up, when passing from sleep to the waking state, that contraction kicks in. I remember a day when that didn't kick in the morning. Dzogchen-Trekchö: Release that tension, and any of the increasinly subtle separates sense-arisings/feelings.

Gradually releasing these tensions (some tradition call it chakra-knots), energy flows more freely, the bliss of your True Nature begins to flow, turning the visual field gradually more nondual and bright and lucid, mere appearance, and identity more empty and empty.... the merry-go-round of Awakening -> Understanding/Realization -> Awakening ->  Understanding/Realization -> ... Until... the bottom of the bucket breaks.

 

What do you need to get a Lila/World going? Separate Self Arisings in the mindstream = frequent discontent/suffering/self-contraction. And experiences that relieve that [Maslows-Pyramid stage 1-6, plus X]. And you have the Samsara show of drama-comedy-tragedy merry-go-round. 

Not that too many just rest in their True Being, and are blissfull without [Maslows-Pyramid stage 1-6, plus X]. And, o-dare-you, wake-up. Show must go on....

What are the real Heros of Manifestation? Not the "ones" that wake up. But the ones that keep the show going.

Stage 6 Maslow by the way was Self-Transcendence, which he added later in life. Funny, I have never seen stage 6 Self-Transcendence being used in a Business-Training-context using the Maslow-Pyramid   

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Highwaymen_(country_supergroup)

...

I fly a starship
Across the Universe divide
And when I reach the other side
I'll find a place to rest my spirit if I can
Perhaps I may become a highwayman again
Or I may simply be a single drop of rain
But I will remain
I'll be back again and again and again and again and again and again

 

>Yeah, that’s what’s been my aim with psychedelics and 5 meo, to reach states that I couldn’t reach sober but then help that inform my understanding in my sober state. I can get into some deeper meditative states where things first start to move around and then begins to dissolve into light but it doesn’t compare to a more powerful trip. I have noticed how my understanding in my sober state makes my trips deeper so I can see that merry-go-round effect. To be continued!  

Edited April 1, 2023 by Water by the River

[Matthew85]

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Just imagine that you're so present that you stop conjuring up anything beyond the present moment. No past, no future, no birth, no death, no memories, no ego, no other, no stories, no science, no spirituality. Just PURE NOW.

@Leo Gura But so much of it seems to be being orchestrated at levels beyond my awareness. For example. You have no idea what you will dream tonight when you fall asleep. You will fall into a series of stories and narrative's until you wake up. 

[Matthew85]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There really isn't an ego mind, there's just GOD/Consciousness/You -- right NOW.

@Leo Gura Yes, but all of it is being orchestrated at levels beyond my awareness. 

Are you saying that everything in my reality is my own personal dream and creation? If so, it is being created at a level that is beyond my awareness. Why would I give myself that degree of amnesia?

[Matthew85]

18 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

When you realize reality is Perfect, that GOD is Perfect, you just surrender to it and you are happy and at peace.

@Leo Gura So if somebody is starving or in extreme suffering, you say this is reality being perfect? 

"just surrender to it and you are happy and at peace." Easy to say when you are not in extreme suffering or challenge's.